Flag burning

[MSgt]

Wow, you surely are a word twister.

I do not "hate" democrats. I look down upon liberals and extreme rightest alike.

I did not say I don't tolerate someone else's point of view. I said I have no toleration for people that are too weak minded or haven't the pride to stand for their country's flag or any other decent act. I certainly don't have any respect for the individual that would insult my efforts by perverting their protected rights or pushed the advantage of them to further an agenda.

If a crowd of Democrats were attacked, I would defend that crowd with every breath and drop of sweat, because it is a crowd of Americans. Of course after the attack, those same democrats would lunge at the chance to point the finger at President Bush and declare that it was the governments fault - For you see, the militant Islamist and brutal Dictator are never to blame. Then they would rally for military cutbacks, slash pay, incentives, and point out and publicize every little mistake that we make.

Most of the Democrats I have and are serving with voted for President Bush. Again....It's about what is good for the nation, not what is good for the political party. I wonder why most Marines are Republicans? I've never really thought about. Perhaps I should.

Democrats and Republicans, both, care more about feeding the rich. This is the one thing that they both agree on. Democrats like to hide this under the guise of "being for the working man". I don't fall for any of it.

I believe that defending the nation is as noble as a teacher, construction worker, Police Officer, Fire Man, and any other proffession that contributes to our society. Believing this, I would not presume to know more about the education system than a teacher who lives it. I know where to draw the line with regards to my opinions.

I believe in right and wrong and I believe that most of us live in the grey area. Everything else is Bull ****. But hey, whatever get's your candidate elected.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Wow, you surely are a word twister.

I do not "hate" democrats. I look down upon liberals and extreme rightest alike.

Based on your previous posts I would have to disagree, sorry. You've called Liberals / Democrats all kinds of things, you've spewed at them, you've bemoaned having to defend them.

I said I have no toleration for people that are too weak minded or haven't the pride to stand for their country's flag or any other decent act.

Weak minded and pride? Any other decent act? What does this ridiculous generalization mean, exactly? This is HATE, sorry. You're clearly saying that in your opinion Liberals are against the flag, decent acts, and of course America. That is pure, sweet smeilling bullshit, sorry.

I certainly don't have any respect for the individual that would insult my efforts by perverting their protected rights or pushed the advantage of them to further an agenda.

What agenda(s) are you talking about? Show me, please how we evil, perverted Liberals are doing whatever it is you're accusing us of doing?

If a crowd of Democrats were attacked, I would defend that crowd with every breath and drop of sweat, because it is a crowd of Americans. Of course after the attack, those same democrats would lunge at the chance to point the finger at President Bush and declare that it was the governments fault - For you see, the militant Islamist and brutal Dictator are never to blame.

This is the prime example of your hate for your fellow Americans. You just wrote that Americans, your countrymen, would blame Bush for a terrorist attack, and that we would not blame the people who attacked us. This is so insulting, so nasty, so wrong it makes me really wonder about you. It's insane to believe that Americans would blame Bush over OBL or whomever. You wrote it, not me, and you do this regularly here.

Then they would rally for military cutbacks, slash pay, incentives, and point out and publicize every little mistake that we make.

You need to get your facts straight, because you're telling untruths. Who cut veteran benefits and military pay? In case you missed it the entire government is controlled by Republicans. How did you miss that?

Most of the Democrats I have and are serving with voted for President Bush. Again....It's about what is good for the nation, not what is good for the political party.

Sorry, hearsay....and you didn't answer my question at all. I asked you if you would consider a fellow soldier who supported the freedom of expression that burning a flag represents a coward as you wrote in earlier posts? Would you?

I believe that defending the nation is as noble as a teacher, construction worker, Police Officer, Fire Man, and any other proffession that contributes to our society.

No argument from me on that. Too bad the tax cuts that have driven us into outrageous debt won't help you pay for your kids to go to college, but at least Bush's friends can go....

 

[MSgt]

I write it constantly, because we all see it in the news constantly. Liberals attacking any mistake made by soldiers and Marines in Iraq, any mistake at Gitmo, and any mistake made by any soldier or Marine anywhere in the world is glorified on front page news to the cheers of liberals. They cheer and attempt to make issues out of nothing along with foreign American haters, just to further their political views, all the while harming good efforts and deeds. The liberals "agenda" is purely to get a democrat in office. The country's needs are always a second thought. We saw this very same thing when Republicans exposed President Clinton's scandel and rode it for what it was worth. Who cared what it did to the country or the embarssment they caused by parading it in front of the world.

Liberals have been the ones that blame President Bush for 9/11. Not because he might actually be to blame, but because he is not a Democrat. If he were, liberals would be silent.

Cutting military benefits and ignoring needs was a tactic glorified by President Clinton. After 6/7 years, he decided to give us a bone for polls sake.

I would think of a Marine as a coward for being afraid to stand up for a decent act over the fear of losing that said right. I haven't come across any Marines that would stand by and watch someone burn the flag, so the question is mute. Maybe it is our standards to decency that is higher or our training to defend this country that will not allow us to look upon this act without violent and personal disgust. Perhaps it is our real world activity against people that burn our flag and returning home to see our own people do it on national TV, all the while claiming that my sweat protects them to do it. Maybe I see the spectator who watches a crime take place rather than interfere to stop it as being the more guilty. This is how I see liberals. Spectators to the wrong doings of the world.

I do not speak for President Bush or his domestic policies. What I will do is invest my hard earned money for my own future's needs and that of my Daughters and not blame whoever is in office. "It's President Bush's fault that our domestics are falling down". "It's President Clinton's fault our lack of dealings against terrorists blew up in our faces". Maybe the next President will find a happy medium. Either way, we'll have a new President in which to blame our problems for.

 

[teacher]

I haven't come across any Marines that would stand by and watch someone burn the flag, so the question is mute.

You know gunny I would have taken you more for the "I'll disagree with your burning the flag, but will defend your right to do it" type.
I wonder if I would be included in the "coward" group? My take on it is this. If I were to come across a American burning a flag I would either-

1. Find something they hold dear to their heart and burn IT in front of them. Watch giggling as their eyes bug out and call for a law against burning their sacred object. or

2.Kick their friggin teeth in and stand in front of a Judge and say "yes I did it" and take my punishment like a man.

Does that keep me out of the coward group?

PS. The question is MOOT. But then what does a Jar Head need with a dictionary as long as your weapon is zeroed right?

 

[MSgt]

Answer "1" would definately be fighting back and I'd join you in lighting his car on fire.

Answer "2" is the type of rashness that I am accustomed to holding back from, but I believe I'd beat the rap. Of course, unless Champ is a member of and persuading the jury.


By the way...I define a coward as someone that watches someone do something that they disagree with rather than voice or act against it.

 

[Squawker]

When our men and women put their lives on the line to defend what our flag stands for, the least we could do is hold it in higher regard than an old rag. I see it as defending our symbol of what America stands for. No one needs to allow the desecration of our flag to show the world we believe in freedom. I think that shows the world we have no respect for it. I appreciate the fact that we have men like Gunny to defend and respect our national symbol. I thank you sir.

 

[teacher]

Answer "2" is the type of rashness that I am accustomed to holding back from, but I believe I'd beat the rap.

My unspoken implied point. Nice catch

Of course, unless Champ is a member of and persuading the jury.

By the way...I define a coward as someone that watches someone do something that they disagree with rather than voice or act against it.

I stand corrected. At attention of course.

 

[teacher]

Answer "1" would definately be fighting back and I'd join you in lighting his car on fire.

Car? I was thinking more like their favorite tye dye Grateful Dead shirt. Now that would put a burr under their saddle. Hit them where it hurts.

 

[MSgt]

Yeah, a car would be a bit extreme, but you can see the value I place on our flag and what it stands for - Of course that's before all of the perversions and irresponsible liberties of people for "what our Founding Fathers intended".

 

[akyron]

Ironocially, do you know what the official US FLAG CODE says about the disposal of a tattered flag?

Source? The Flag Code
Title 4, United States Code, Chapter 1 Section K

What do you make of this?

There is a ceremony involved.


Ceremony for the Disposal of Unserviceable Flags


"A Flag may be a flimsy bit of printed gauze, or a beautiful banner of finest silk. Its intrinsic value may be trifling or great; but its real value is beyond price, for it is a precious symbol of all that we and our comrades have worked for and lived for, and died for-a free Nation of free men, true to the faith of the past, devoted to the ideals and practice of Justice, Freedom and Democracy.

"Let these faded Flags of our Country be retired and destroyed with respectful and honorable rites and their places be taken by bright new Flags of the same size and kind, and let no grave of our soldier or sailor dead be unhonored and unmarked. Sergeant-at-Arms, assemble the Color Guard, escort the detail bearing the Flags and destroy these Flags by burning. The members shall stand at attention."


They get a sort of eulogy as well

 

[MSgt]

Perfect example of how liberals quote only the facts that pertain to their agenda.

The mention of the US Flag Code condoning flag burning came without mention of the solemn ceremony involved or the reasons for such an occasion.

 

[26 X World Champs]

There is a ceremony involved.


Ceremony for the Disposal of Unserviceable Flags

I was simply pointing out the irony....

 

[26 X World Champs]

Car? I was thinking more like their favorite tye dye Grateful Dead shirt. Now that would put a burr under their saddle. Hit them where it hurts.

What makes you think a Deadhead would burn an American flag? all of you violent macho guys out there who condone beating people and burning their property are sickening.

Please, someone, show me ONE incident of an American flag being burnt in protest in the USA this century? Please? Otherwise, take the BS macho stuff and file it away under useless and worthless....

 

[26 X World Champs]

Perfect example of how liberals quote only the facts that pertain to their agenda.

The mention of the US Flag Code condoning flag burning came without mention of the solemn ceremony involved or the reasons for such an occasion.

No, perfect example of how things get twisted by you. If you would actually take the time to read the post I simply and for most people, clearly explained that it was IRONIC.

It just seems that you just can't get past the "America right or wrong" mentality that you've already written you support. You're also so enraged that even when a post is simply being ironic you turn it into another reason to hate anyone who disagrees with you. :congrats:

 

[MSgt]

This is why I get so dissapointed in my fellow "Americans" that aren't willing to take the extra couple if inches to protect their flag......


http://www.theodora.com/flags/new8/flag_burning_1.html

 

[akyron]

Flag burning is obviously an expression and should be protected just as Islamics should be free to express their religious views as well.


The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him.[21] Islamic leaders from Muhammad's time until today have followed his model. Examples of decapitation, of both the living and the dead, in Islamic history are myriad. Yusuf b. Tashfin (d. 1106) led the Al-Murabit (Almoravid) Empire to conquer from western Sahara to central Spain. After the battle of Zallaqa in 1086, he had 24,000 corpses of the defeated Castilians beheaded "and piled them up to make a sort of minaret for the muezzins who, standing on the piles of headless cadavers, sang the praises of Allah."[22] He then had the detached heads sent to all the major cities of North Africa and Spain as an example of Christian impotence. The Al-Murabits were conquered the following century by the Al-Muwahhids (Almohads), under whose rule Castilian Christian enemies were beheaded after any lost battles.

Beheading has particular prominence in Saudi Arabia. In 2003 alone, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia beheaded more than fifty people.[30] This number included both Muslim and non-Muslim workers. Over the past two decades, the Saudis have decapitated at least 1,100 for alleged crimes ranging from drug running to witchcraft and apostasy.[31] The Saudi government not only uses beheadings to punish criminals but also to terrorize potential opponents. One famous example involved a Saudi national guardsman named Juhayman al-‘Utaybi. In late 1979, the start of the fifteenth century in the Islamic calendar, ‘Utaybi declared his brother-in-law Muhammad bin Abd Allah al-Qahtani to be the Mahdi. They seized control of the holy mosque in Mecca and called on all Saudis to rise up against the government in Riyadh.[32] The house of Saud responded forcibly with a shock-and-awe campaign. After a bloody battle, they regained control of the holy mosque. Within weeks, they had hunted down and either killed or captured the Mahdists. In early 1980, the Saudi government publicly beheaded ‘Utaybi and his imprisoned followers. While outsiders may consider the Saudi practice barbaric, most Saudi executions are swift, completed in one sword blow. Zarqawi and his followers have chosen a slow, torturous sawing method to terrorize the Western audience.
Zarqawi and other Islamics who practice decapitation believe that God has ordained them to obliterate their enemies in this manner. Islam is, for this determined minority of Muslims, anything but a "religion of peace." It is, rather, a religion of the sword with the blade forever at the throat of the unbeliever."


Freedom is truly a double edged sword.

As long as protesters light themselves on fire as well I don't have a problem with it. Thats true commitment to their political beliefs. Remember the gasoline monks? Ouch.

 

[MSgt]

Outstanding point.

 

[26 X World Champs]

This is why I get so dissapointed in my fellow "Americans" that aren't willing to take the extra couple if inches to protect their flag......


http://www.theodora.com/flags/new8/flag_burning_1.html

Did you happen to actually look at that site? Of all the flag burning pics, only one was from the USA, and that was 10 years ago...

So the real question is why are you blaming other Americans (Liberals) for flag burning that they've never done?

I must admit I have no idea if there have been any flag burning incidences in the USA recently, but if there has, it is a rare, rare occurrence, and it most definitely has nothing to do with Liberals....

 

[MSgt]

This site showed all of the disrespect given to our flag from the outside the country. My point was...Why should we allow it inside? There is a whole world out there. They don't have to do it on our soil. How often do we see Americans burning other nations flags? Perhaps there isn't enough national pride in other countries that it would even matter.


I also didn't say liberals were flag burners. I said liberals support people's burning rights which is just as bad.

 

[26 X World Champs]

This site showed all of the disrespect given to our flag from the outside the country. My point was...Why should we allow it inside? There is a whole world out there. They don't have to do it on our soil. How often do we see Americans burning other nations flags? Perhaps there isn't enough national pride in other countries that it would even matter.


I also didn't say liberals were flag burners. I said liberals support people's burning rights which is just as bad.

You just don't know when to quit, do you? You could have simply admitted you made a mistake, that Americans in general, and Liberals in particular are not the evil flag burners you accuse us of being. But nope, instead you just continue your full frontal assault.

Good going! You're one helluva a guy.... :tomato:

 

[MSgt]

There has been no mistake.

What goes on outside the country is not in our control. What goes on inside is. Liberals are what allow flag burning to be legal. Liberals are who glorify indecency while shoving their perverted version of the 1st Ammendment down the rest of America's throats.

 

[26 X World Champs]

There has been no mistake.

What goes on outside the country is not in our control. What goes on inside is. Liberals are what allow flag burning to be legal. Liberals are who glorify indecency while shoving their perverted version of the 1st Ammendment down the rest of America's throats.

NEWSFLASH! The laws of the USA are what allow flag burning to be legal. It's what makes America BETTER than other countries. In America we have enough self-confidence and self-respect that we do not allow FOOLISH PRIDE to decide what's right or wrong.

You sure carry around a lot of hate for your fellow Americans.

 

[teacher]

What makes you think a Deadhead would burn an American flag?

Lighten up dude, I like the dead, just a stereotypical hippie 60's joke. Are your panties always in a wad or just when I post? Oh please say it's me.

 

[edb19]

Did you happen to actually look at that site? Of all the flag burning pics, only one was from the USA, and that was 10 years ago...

You obviously only looked at the first page - there are 37. Yes, many of the pictures were taken overseas - in countries where the US has invested a lot of time and aid, but many were taken at home.

 

[26 X World Champs]

You obviously only looked at the first page - there are 37. Yes, many of the pictures were taken overseas - in countries where the US has invested a lot of time and aid, but many were taken at home.

I did only look at the first page, so if there were more US based ones I stand corrected.

My point, however, still stands, namely that the actual incidents in the USA are very, very rare. Devoting Congress's time and energy to this "issue" when there are so many important issues that do not get addressed is very sad.

It seems like the people on this board who are so fired up over this issue (a small minority based on the poll) seem to be confusing incidents outside of the US with internal ones. They are confusing the two, and they are venting their anger in the wrong direction.

I also have to say that if all it takes is someone making a negative symbolic gesture against our country to rile you up to the point where you post you'll commit a crime in response that something is very wrong. Part of being an adult is self-control, not allowing oneself to be baited by the so-called grievous act.

If one would take a deep breath maybe you would realize that the person burning the flag wants a negative response to their act, they are inciting you, and they want you to take the bait. Intelligent people turn the other cheek and respond with non-violent actions that discredit the offender, not with threats to burn their car, punch their lights out etc.

The bottom line is that it is so incredibly rare that a US flag is burnt in the USA in protest. I suggest that one take the energy expended on hating the flag burner to the point of violence and instead focus on a cause that actually effects people's day to day lives. Turn negative energy into positive energy.