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Flag burning

Should US flag buring be illegal?

  • No it's a form of expression

    Votes: 38 66.7%
  • Yes it should be illegal

    Votes: 13 22.8%
  • I really do not care

    Votes: 4 7.0%
  • Depends [please post]

    Votes: 2 3.5%

  • Total voters
    57

Shadowlands

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http://www.acatastrophicsuccess.com/

OKAY I got this link from Bushflash.com and I just wanted to post it because it was similar to this topic. I don't know if this is true, or extremely fake b/c I never heard of this but I guess a Soldier killed some Civilians in Iraq for messign with the flag by writing on it.
 

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Writing and saying anything you want is protected under the 1st Ammendment, yet, a person can be taken to court for slander and liable.
There is no harm in extending that same courtesy towards the National Ensign.

People are so dramatically petrified that even the slightest idea of protecting their flag will drive the nation to a dictatorship, that they make themselves impotent to stand for anything decent. Even morality continues to be cast aside.

I do not pull my trigger so that someone can "legally" burn my flag to the applause of dancing liberals.
 
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MSgt

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Here is where the hypocracy lies. The 1st Ammendment gives us freedom of speech. If this argument is what has allowed people to burn our flag then it should allow a person to write or say anything they want to. Hypocracy allows us to put definitions and limits on "freedom of speech" with regard to slander and liable, but sanctions flag burning. Makes no sense to me how one is OK, but the other is not if "freedom of speech" is truly what liberals say they are protecting.

American decency, morality, and higher standards have been decaying a little bit over the decades already. It has been surrendered to the liberal and to the offended foreigner.
 
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MSgt

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This argument is senseless.

In a short while, Burning the flag will continue to be legal or it will not. If it stays legal, nothing changes. If it becomes illegal, perhaps we will see the masses that "don't agree with burning the flag", form up and rally for it's legalization again.
 

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GySgt said:
Writing and saying anything you want is protected under the 1st Ammendment, yet, a person can be taken to court for slander and liable.
There is no harm in extending that same courtesy towards the National Ensign.

Courtesy, yes, but a law? No. Sorry, obviously the concept of expression is a bit beyond you here.

GySgt said:
People are so dramatically petrified that even the slightest idea of protecting their flag will drive the nation to a dictatorship, that they make themselves impotent to stand for anything decent. Even morality continues to be cast aside.I do not pull my trigger so that someone can "legally" burn my flag to the applause of dancing liberals.

Oh now Gunny, you're going of on a tangent here that really is completely back wards.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
In this case: Which came first, flag burning or the nut jobs who wish to restrict yet one more right?
If anything is to be PROTECTED here it's Freedom of Expression. It's that simple.
Yes, as a marine you most certainly did sign up to defend this nation AND it's Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. This means anyone who would DARE suggest restricting one of the most fundamental of rights in this country; the Freedom of Expression.

If you can't figure that out, I suggest you take a personal inventory of what it really means to be an American. What our Founding Fathers envisioned and what our Constitution was meant to stand for.

I can tell you this, it was NEVER meant to allow for Anyone, not the President, the House of Representatives or the Senate to DENY any of the fundamental rights of this nation and it's citizenry.

I know what vow you took, I took the same one!
 

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JustineCredible said:
Courtesy, yes, but a law? No. Sorry, obviously the concept of expression is a bit beyond you here.



Oh now Gunny, you're going of on a tangent here that really is completely back wards.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
In this case: Which came first, flag burning or the nut jobs who wish to restrict yet one more right?
If anything is to be PROTECTED here it's Freedom of Expression. It's that simple.
Yes, as a marine you most certainly did sign up to defend this nation AND it's Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. This means anyone who would DARE suggest restricting one of the most fundamental of rights in this country; the Freedom of Expression.

If you can't figure that out, I suggest you take a personal inventory of what it really means to be an American. What our Founding Fathers envisioned and what our Constitution was meant to stand for.

I can tell you this, it was NEVER meant to allow for Anyone, not the President, the House of Representatives or the Senate to DENY any of the fundamental rights of this nation and it's citizenry.

I know what vow you took, I took the same one!

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Please oh please tell me where the 1st Amendment gives us freedom of expression. I see speech, the press, peaceable to assemble, petition for a redress of grievances, & most importantly religion.
 

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Please oh please tell me where the 1st Amendment gives us freedom of expression. I see speech, the press, peaceable to assemble, petition for a redress of grievances, & most importantly religion.
From Cornell Law School:
The First Amendment of the United States Constitution protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. See U.S. Const. amend. I. Freedom of expression consists of the rights to freedom of speech, press, assembly and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, and the implied rights of association and belief. The Supreme Court interprets the extent of the protection afforded to these rights.
 

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1st admendment

I really don't like the first admendment but hey its freedom but people abuse it's power to much.
Example: PEOPLE WHO MADE BUMFIGHTS

What kind of sick person gets bums of the street and ties them up to branches just get some money from people?

Sick I say.
 

26 X World Champs

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GySgt said:
American decency, morality, and higher standards have been decaying a little bit over the decades already. It has been surrendered to the liberal and to the offended foreigner.
You really need to back up this stuff with facts, otherwise it's simply liberal bashing. Prove to us that we're declining morally, and more importantly prove that it's because of Liberals & "Foreigners."

If you're going to make absurd generalization then you need to prove they're true, otherwise it's all bullshit....sorry.
 

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GySgt said:
This argument is senseless.

In a short while, Burning the flag will continue to be legal or it will not. If it stays legal, nothing changes. If it becomes illegal, perhaps we will see the masses that "don't agree with burning the flag", form up and rally for it's legalization again.
How many flags were burnt in protest in the USA last year?
 

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26 X World Champs said:
How many flags were burnt in protest in the USA last year?

What difference does it make if it were 5, 50 or 500? Still stupid IMO. And still protected by the U.S. Cons. You can't merely limit that which you don't like.
 

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Pacridge said:
What difference does it make if it were 5, 50 or 500? Still stupid IMO. And still protected by the U.S. Cons. You can't merely limit that which you don't like.
My point is that so many people get totally whacked out over this subject, when in reality the actual incidences in the USA are minuscule.

I believe that some of the people getting totally bent out of shape are mixing up what they see overseas in protests against America and what the reality is in the USA, and that is my point.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
My point is that so many people get totally whacked out over this subject, when in reality the actual incidences in the USA are minuscule.

I believe that some of the people getting totally bent out of shape are mixing up what they see overseas in protests against America and what the reality is in the USA, and that is my point.

Maybe so, I have no idea how many were burned in protest. I have a feeling there's a lot more being brunt in the Middle East than in the Mid-West. But I still don't see it an an important issue. I'd rather Congress spent their time on issues that will actual make a difference.
 

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Pacridge said:
Maybe so, I have no idea how many were burned in protest. I have a feeling there's a lot more being brunt in the Middle East than in the Mid-West. But I still don't see it an an important issue. I'd rather Congress spent their time on issues that will actual make a difference.
I agree 100%! It's grotesque really that our representatives have their priorities so screwed up, but then again we are talking about Republicans, right?
 

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shuamort said:
From Cornell Law School:
The First Amendment of the United States Constitution protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. See U.S. Const. amend. I. Freedom of expression consists of the rights to freedom of speech, press, assembly and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, and the implied rights of association and belief. The Supreme Court interprets the extent of the protection afforded to these rights.

Oh isn't that nice. A 1st Amendment overview from a precious little university. This phrase; freedom of expression; has perverted much in the same manner as 'separation of church & state.' No constitutional or historical significance except that a certain sect of our population says it over & over & so many have begun to believe it.
 

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Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Oh isn't that nice. A 1st Amendment overview from a precious little university. This phrase; freedom of expression; has perverted much in the same manner as 'separation of church & state.' No constitutional or historical significance except that a certain sect of our population says it over & over & so many have begun to believe it.
Yeah. Damn Thomas Jefferson the founder father who first introduced the term "seperation of church and state" soon after the creation of the Constitution's first amendment in a letter clarifying what it meant. Seriously, it's fun to spew what you're spewing, but when you don't have facts or understanding to back it up, it only makes you look bad.
 

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A burning flag hurts us how? Be creative. Find out where the flag burner is from or something they believe in then burn it. Sit back and watch them spaz. Point and laugh. In the end who wins that one?
 

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teacher said:
A burning flag hurts us how? Be creative. Find out where the flag burner is from or something they believe in then burn it. Sit back and watch them spaz. Point and laugh. In the end who wins that one?


:laughat: Now that's just EVIL! :twisted:
 

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JustinCredible,

First of all, who are you to tell me why I signed up? The reasons I signed up are mine alone. My disagreeance with desecrating our nation's flag has nothing to do with my oath. I've honored my oath for over 13 years so far and it won't end after I retire. I see a flag burner as an enemy. I was a patriot long before the Corps. I own that and I own my definition of what a true American is.

You don't rate to suggest anything to me. You don't know me. You know nothing about me. Since you seem to think that you are the grand interpreter of "what our Founding Fathers envisioned", I'll do the same. I do not believe that the Founding Fathers envisioned their flag being burnt. I believe this is just one more perversion glorified by liberals. Liberal Democrats are just as bad for the country as Christian Coalition Republicans. They both "KNOW" what our founding father's envisioned and they both twist the words into what suits them.

The reasons you took your vow don't interest me, nor is it my business. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to infiltrate my grid with your flag burning defenses. You are so petrified to lose any other rights that you can't stand up for anything decent.

Excuse my attack on your integrity. I was just returning the favor.
 
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GySgt said:
JustinCredible,
I see a flag burner as an enemy. I was a patriot long before the Corps. I own that and I own my definition of what a true American is....

Liberal Democrats are just as bad for the country as Christian Coalition Republicans. They both "KNOW" what our founding father's envisioned and they both twist the words into what suits them.
Please show me even one instance where a Liberal Democrat burnt a flag in the last year, or longer for that matter? Just one? For you to write such perversion is shameful. On the one hand you take great offense at having your personal integrity questioned. On the other hand you personally attack the integrity of millions of Americans.

I'm not going to get inside your head, only you know what motivates your posts, but I can tell you I take great offense to them. I don't think Republicans are any better or worse than Democrats. One's political persuasion does NOT define the man.

I don't know about you, but I don't choose my friends by their politics. My friends cross all borders, and they're my friends because of who they are as human beings, not for whom they vote for.

I don't believe the military has trained you to hate other Americans? You sound like you do hate millions of us though. That is very, very sad.
 

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Like I said, I was returning the favor.

"Hate" would be the wrong word to use here. I simply have no tolerance for people that choose to be impotent to national pride because it is easier to give support to the flag burner.

A person's political persuasion very much defines the man. Extremists in any political party are counter productive to any issue. The most understanding view point is the man that stands in the middle. That's why I choose not to vote for a political party. I vote for what is good for the Country at the time. Unfortunately, Democrats are having a lot of problem in that area these days. They are so desperate to get a foot hold, they are willing to desecrate anything to persuade allegiance.

And No....What is sad is a group of Americans that refuse to stand for what is right for fear of losing a right. Oh sure, you say you don't agree with flag burning, yet you decide to rally for someone's right to do it. It's cowardice and hypocritical. I will give this to the Republican Right. At least they don't masque their beliefs through other terms and flip when the issue suits them. The far leftist refuses to open the door to defend against flag burning, yet look down on the far rightest that refuses to open the door to stem cell research. This liberal hypocracy bleeds into everything and makes grand efforts to undermine anything that stands for something greater than their political party. In my 32 insignificant years of life, this has been my observations of the political problems in America. Very few actually stand for America. The political party and it's sheep have taken center stage. There’s no one the new American Left so despises as the working man or woman who continues to believe in the United States. To them, we are the one's decaying America for standing for decency.

If it doesn't pertain to you, don't be offended. If it does, according to you it is my right to do so.
 
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First of all the flag is not 'just a piece of cloth'. Yeah we all exercise the freedom of speech, but why do we have that right because we are americans. The US flag represents our FREE country and if someone has that bad of a problem with the US then why do you live here. If you dont have enough respect for "the piece of cloth" that unites us all than apparently you are not proud to be an american
 

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GySgt said:
Like I said, I was returning the favor.

"Hate" would be the wrong word to use here. I simply have no tolerance for people that choose to be impotent to national pride because it is easier to give support to the flag burner.
I disagree, your posts are chock full of hate, as is this one. You HATE Democrats. You HATE anyone who disagrees with you, You HATE people who defend the Constitution.
GySgt said:
A person's political persuasion very much defines the man.
It's oh so sad that you're unable to judge people beyond one narrow aspect of their being. Reading your posts, however, I do believe you when you write that you judge people only by their politics.

There's a strong argument to be made for judging people for their humanity, for their ability to be a parent, a friend, a neighbor, a coach on a little league team, a person who helps others, i.e. a doctor, lawyer, fireman, policeman, teacher, truck driver, etc. IMHO judging someone only by their political persuasion is a very stilted way to look at the world. That's my opinion.
GySgt said:
And No....What is sad is a group of Americans that refuse to stand for what is right for fear of losing a right. Oh sure, you say you don't agree with flag burning, yet you decide to rally for someone's right to do it. It's cowardice and hypocritical.
Maybe you're unable to intellecualize beyond what you think is right? I don't know how to react to someone who cannot understand defending one's right to dissent, especially since that is exactly one of the founding principles of this country. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean, but I understand it to be that you have zero tolerance for anyone who defends someone or something that you disagree with. I think you're saying that if someone defends something you hate then you hate them?

I was taught differently, and I believe differently. I do not want to impose my view on others. I will always defend your right to be wrong, to be insensitive, to be intollerant, to be full of resentment for your fellow Americans. Go for it dude!

How come you can't tolerate someone else's point of view? What does it do to you that makes you so full of disgust.

You've written some things that I've taken personally. You've made it sound that as a soldier you regret having to serve in the military to protect people who have my political beliefs. That's really harsh, you know? If I've misunderstood your meaning, I apologize, but that is how I've read some of your posts.

I don't know? Maybe it's the military mentality or training? I can tell you look down your nose at anyone whose not served in the military, you cast aspersion against us who have not. You've written multiple times how you saw things personally in the military that we haven't seen so our opinion means s**t because you know better.

I just find it too bad that you hate me and my fellow Democrats to the point that you would prefer we leave the country. I get the impression that if a rally that had only Democrats attending was attacked by terrorists you would be less outraged than if it were a rally of Republicans only. That is how I read you, and if I am wrong, I apologize in advance.

The people you've served with that have been Democrats, if they believe that Flag Burning is an expression of free speech you think they're cowards? That's what you wrote....

GySgt said:
liberal hypocracy bleeds into everything and makes grand efforts to undermine anything that stands for something greater than their political party. In my 32 insignificant years of life, this has been my observations of the political problems in America. Very few actually stand for America. The political party and it's sheep have taken center stage. There’s no one the new American Left so despises as the working man or woman who continues to believe in the United States. To them, we are the one's decaying America for standing for decency.
This last paragraph is pure bullshit, sorry. In case you haven't paid attention working class people are more democratic than republican. How can that be if Democrats "despise" the working class?

Do you understand what the Republicans do to the middle class? They give tax cuts to the top 1%, saving them trillions of dollars. However, the middle class guy who struggles to pay $44k for one year of college for his daughter doesn't get a tax cut for that expense? I know this because my daughter is going to college in the fall and it's $44k. The only way to qualify for any financial aid is to first spend every penny I've ever saved, and every penny that my daughter has ever saved. No tax break, nothing. The millionaire who can afford to send his kid to college without a problem gets a tax cut, but people like me do not AND will have to spend all the money they've ever saved (except 401k) to send his kids to college, with no assistance from the government at all.

You think that Bush cares about this? Do you think Congress does? Nope, instead they waste their time and energy on a flag burning bill that is pure grandstanding and has no benefit to Americans, like me, who are struggling to make their kids into better Americans.

In other words, Bush gives back trillions to his fellow millionaires but does not bother to see the value in investing in our nation's youth so their parents can send them to college. Don't you think the more college educated people we have the better our country will be?

So please, don't write BS about how Democrats don't care at all about the working class because you have nothing that you can write that shows that Republicans do anything to make being middle class better.
 

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I disagree, your posts are chock full of hate, as is this one. You HATE Democrats. You HATE anyone who disagrees with you, You HATE people who defend the Constitution.
When I first read this, I thought you were talking about me again Champ. You need to stop attacking Republicans just because they disagree with you Champ. They have an equal right to their opinion, just as you do yours.
 
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