Flag burning

[Dogger807]

Flag burning is an aboling act when committed by a citizen in a malicious nature. I neither condone nor approve of it.

It is a physical blow despite being symbolic in nature.

I think GySgt has been the most vocal on trying to explain this.

It is a paradox that being able to perform this act is exactly what this flag symbolizes.

I don't like it; in fact it makes me extremely angry. But to paraphrase a statement from earlier in this thread . I may not agree with what you say , but I will fight for your right to say it.

 

[JustineCredible]

I was being petty in my comment - and for that I apologize.

I stand by my earlier comment - flag burning is protected speech. I might not like it, but I'm not going to take away someone's 1st Amendment rights.

I do, however, believe it to be a slap in the face to every military man and woman who has served or is serving this country. These men and women put their money where their mouths are and gave the flag burners the right to protest.

I must really be the exception here. I'm ex-military and I do not see flag burning as a slap in my face. But then again, everyone's personal experiences play a big role in a statement like that.
Personally, I have a flag which sits on my desk at home, I fly my flag upside down and in disgrace. I'm very upset with my country, its leaders and the sheeple who follow them unquestioningly. I feel nationalism has replaced patriotism and nobody cared to notice the difference.

So, no, I do not see flag burning as a slap in the face, I see is as it is...a form of EXPRESSION...and as it is a protected right to do so, I support all efforts to maintain that right.

When I vowed to protect my country and its Constitution, I understood full well what that entaled. I never made an empty vow, which I think all too many military members do.
I remember 18yrs ago, when I stood in that room filled with all these kids right out of high school, I thought to myself; "Do they even know what these words we are asked to resite really mean? Do they care?"
I remember I even answered myself: "Somehow, I seriously doubt it."

I still feel that way today...and as I read some of the posts here by someone (no need to make an ad homenim attack) I hear myself asking that same question...as well as it's answer.

 

[Arch Enemy]

How about this...

You can burn the flag, but first you have to put it in the condition where it's got to be burned.

I agree with Nurse, this thing is just a piece of cloth with stars and stripes. It's representing America, true but it's still just a piece of cloth.

 

[JustineCredible]

Self serving political parties aside...........All Americans hate seeing the American flag being burnt.

Really? All?

Um, last I checked I was a tax paying, ex-military serving, young citizen raising ALL AMERICAN...and I don't "hate" to see the flag being burnt.
You statement here only shows you intence disgust and injection of your personal feelings onto everyone else, which just isn't the true.

From this group there are those that care enough to do something about it

Really? You care enough? So, when exactly do you leave to go get blown up in Iraq? If you "care" so darned much, how come you're here, at home, in your comfortable dwelling, arguing about your fellow citizens insted of "doing something" about the real problems that create hatred of this country by other nations?
Why do you chat your day away in front of your pc insted of voluteering your time and effort to understand the way we as a nation are seen to other countries?
All you're doing here is filling yourself with *iss and vinegar and spitting it out on your fellow citizens as if we're your personal enemies.


[QUOTE-GySgt]and those that simply don't care enough and mire the issue in the ever confusion of what our "Founding Fathers intended."[/QUOTE]

WOW! Another "oh so enlightened" statement by our fearless leader Gunny!

Please, don't even suggest you know what our "Founding Fathers" were thinking unless you can; 1) Prove you can go back in time &/or 2) Read minds of the dead!

The rest of us here will continue to see what our "Founding fathers" wrote, their political ties, their personal journals, and get a bit of a better feeling for what their intentions may have been.
What you seem to simply not get is that these "Founding fathers" were actually HUMAN BEINGS. People with families, emotions, worries, dreams...

These were men who understood the magnitude of what they were about to do, they knew that generations of Americans would read their words and be forced to interpret them as best they could for whatever purpose to ensure a nation to continue. They knew they were laying the foundation on which this nation would be created. They understood full well that generations later there would be other needs, other situations, which would call for additions to be made, new stories to be added, conceptual rooms to be filled.

The writings of these, our "Founding Fathers" allows us, a couple hundred years later, to have an idea of what they may have envisioned, but we cannot be certain. We can only interpret and adjust. This has been the "American Way" and something we all need to realize we need to support NOW more than ever.
With disgusting threats of destroying our foundation (our Constitution) we blindly allowing the wills of a few to determine the futures of many.
Is this what we want as citizens of this country?
Do we want our foundation to be destroyed or reconstructed in such a way that would actually completely change its purpose?

By restricting the freedom of expression we would be changing the intended purpose of our Constitution. From that of a document which ensures rights, to one that restricts rights.
It would open the doors for more and more restrictive laws, until we would eventually be something other than the United States of America. Something unrecognizable, something I don't want any part of.

 

[JustineCredible]

How about this...

You can burn the flag, but first you have to put it in the condition where it's got to be burned.

I agree with Nurse, this thing is just a piece of cloth with stars and stripes. It's representing America, true but it's still just a piece of cloth.

...and with this suggestion, we might as well just pop right back 1989 and remember the whole contoversy over the Dread Scott display.

Dread Scott

What is the Proper Way to Display a U.S. Flag? is an "installation for audience participation." It is from the larger body of work, American Newspeak...Please Feel Free?

 

[MikeyC]

Burning the flag just isn't right. It's a symbol of our nation and burning it is thethe equivalence of rebellion. Rebellion isn't legal...Burning the flag doesn't just mean you are against the government, it means you are against the country.

 

[MSgt]

"Really? You care enough? So, when exactly do you leave to go get blown up in Iraq? If you "care" so darned much, how come you're here, at home, in your comfortable dwelling, arguing about your fellow citizens insted of "doing something" about the real problems that create hatred of this country by other nations?
Why do you chat your day away in front of your pc insted of voluteering your time and effort to understand the way we as a nation are seen to other countries?"



'03 OIF 7th Marines Regiment 5 months
'04 OIF II 7th Marines Regiment 8 months.

My current unit is providing me a short break before the next rotation. Don't presume to think you know me or what motivates me. It's funny how a guy can tell me that I can't possible know what our "Founding Fathers" meant, because I wasn't there.....then turns around in the same breath and tells us what our "founding Fathters" meant. This is the hypocracy of the Liberal. I never tire of it.

 

[sebastiansdreams]

You will find it is incredibly hard to offend me. Nearly impossible in fact. But, I do know that there are some that take great stock in symbolisms. And for them, it IS a cruel and offensive gesture to burn such a symbol.
Let me give you some for instances. Say I gave my fiance an engagement ring. Then one day in anger I took the ring from her finger and threw it in the fire. You can imagine how hurt that would be, as it is a very important symbol for her. Granted, it is just a ring. But, she has emotions invested into that object, therefore, its destruction is offense.
Let's go to another case. The Constitution of the US. It, in reality, is nothing more than a piece of paper. It has some famous guys' names written on it and the laws under which we obey. However, these laws exist with or without this piece of paper, correct? But, should there be consequences to someone who decided they didn't like the constitution, so they take it and burn it? After all, it is nothing more than a symbol, correct?
Or, for that matter, a monument, is nothing more than stone. But if someone came along and riddled the Vietnam memorial wall, that person might be up for punishment, wouldn't they?

In closing, yes, it is a piece of cloth, that can be bought by anyone in the country. But, it is also a symbol of something more than that. To many, it stands for what they went to war for, and what they died for. To many, it stands for the laws, the structure, and the freedom of America. And these are things that countless people have died for. The point is this: Maybe there is no justifiable reason to make it illegal to burn a flag. But, just you have a right to something, does not make it right. I think, because we live in a democracy, it should be up to the majority to decide whether this is an issue, and it should be voted on and ended, and we should move on to more important issues.