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Flag burning

Should US flag buring be illegal?

  • No it's a form of expression

    Votes: 38 66.7%
  • Yes it should be illegal

    Votes: 13 22.8%
  • I really do not care

    Votes: 4 7.0%
  • Depends [please post]

    Votes: 2 3.5%

  • Total voters
    57

Schweddy

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Should flag buring be allowed to continue in the US?

Is it a form of expression?
 

Naughty Nurse

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Re: Flag buring

vauge said:
Should flag buring be allowed to continue in the US?

Is it a form of expression?
A flag is a piece of cloth. If someone wants to burn one, so what?
 

flip2

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I believe it is a form of expression, protected, here in America, by the First Amendment. However, I agree with galenrox, it makes me very upset when an American burns the American flag out of protest or spite, or desecrates it by doing other things to it. But, there is nothing we can do about it.
 

LaMidRighter

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I think flag burners are disgusting cowards who don't know why they do this act half of the time, all the while hiding behind the liberty to desecrate Old Glory with imunity. I put depends as my answer and will be happy to explain;
1) Flag burners should be allowed the expression to desecrate that flag as pertains to the first amendment, but, if it creates a public nuissance, fire hazard, disturbance of the peace, or incitement of a riot this person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law on all applicable charges.
2) The right to file charges of battery or assualt against any who would happen to be so offended they went into an "uncontrollable" fit and just happened to stomp a mudhole in said jerk who decides to desecrate a national symbol in a treasonous act against his fellow americans *edit*would be suspended*.

Also, Naughty Nurse, it is not the fact that a cloth is being burned, it is the sentiment, liberties, rights, sacrifices, traditions, and history behind that symbol that is so infuriating. To burn the American flag is an insult to all who love this country and even more disrespectful to anyone who has ever served it, it is even worse when one of America's own citizens performs this act and if they hate us so much, the wonderful thing about it is they are free to leave.
 
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Squawker

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I think there should be limits on what we call "free speech" and burning the flag is one of them IMO. Not everything that one thinks should be spoken or acted upon. I think it falls into the same category as cross burning. I don't like this word, but it is hate speech and should be illegal.
 

shuamort

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Soviet_Guy

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Since it's U.S. flag burning, then I got nothing against it, if it was national flags in general I'd be apposed to burning. I think people are just too sick of United States' Stars and Stripes, lol. :lol:
 

Naughty Nurse

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LaMidRighter said:
Also, Naughty Nurse, it is not the fact that a cloth is being burned, it is the sentiment, liberties, rights, sacrifices, traditions, and history behind that symbol that is so infuriating. To burn the American flag is an insult to all who love this country and even more disrespectful to anyone who has ever served it, it is even worse when one of America's own citizens performs this act and if they hate us so much, the wonderful thing about it is they are free to leave.
No, it IS just a piece of cloth that is being burned. If your nation is so insecure that burning it is such a big deal, than perhaps you need to look at that, rather than moaning on about people who are stupid enough to think that burning a piece of cloth is making some kind of point. You give them power by reacting to their silly actions.
 
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LaMidRighter

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Naughty Nurse said:
No, it IS just a piece of cloth that is being burned. If your nation is so insecure that burning it is such a big deal, than perhaps you need to look at that, rather than moaning on about people who are stupid enough to think that burning a piece of cloth is making some kind of point. You give them power by reacting to their silly actions.
I don't think you got the point, there is no insecurity on my nation's part, I am not moaning about anything, but like I said, if someone has the huevos to burn an American flag in front of a veteran, then that veteran should be able to fully and legally kick his @$#. Once again, it is not the cloth, it is all of the ideals that reside within. How would you feel if I burned the Union Jack in front of you and insulted your country and way of life, personally, I respect Great Brittain but have plenty of things that I could use to insult or praise the country, same as any other nation has a similar position towards mine, I choose to respect other countries because that is my nature. And, once again, those in this country who are citizens and feel that we are not living up to their expectations of life by our traditions are free to get the @#$% out, and trust me, they won't be missed.
 

LaMidRighter

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Soviet_Guy said:
Since it's U.S. flag burning, then I got nothing against it, if it was national flags in general I'd be apposed to burning. I think people are just too sick of United States' Stars and Stripes, lol. :lol:
How many of those red flags with the little hammer & scithe have been waving about lately? Hmmmm? Maybe that's because that ideal just up and died. Buuuuurrrrrrnnnnn!
 

26 X World Champs

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LaMidRighter said:
I don't think you got the point, there is no insecurity on my nation's part, I am not moaning about anything, but like I said, if someone has the huevos to burn an American flag in front of a veteran, then that veteran should be able to fully and legally kick his @$#. Once again, it is not the cloth, it is all of the ideals that reside within.
So, as a "good" American you're advocating legal violence against any American who burns a flag? Genius! So, in truth, you're violently against the First Amendment.

 

BigMoose67

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Re: Flag buring

Naughty Nurse said:
A flag is a piece of cloth. If someone wants to burn one, so what?
A piece of clothe? WHAT? So what? Ahhhhhhhhhh
Tell that to a marine from Iwo Jima. Any marine for that matter. It's a symbol not a damn peice of cloth.
Even if its not an American flag it still makes me mad unless it a ritualistic thing. Come on.
 

anomaly

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Re: Flag buring

Well, I'm glad someone on the right finally posted what they truly think: "I think there should be limits on what we call "free speech""-Squawker

So you mean we shouldn't have a first amendment? Hell, while we're at it, why don't we make 'limits' on "freedom of religion". If your religion is not accepted by the Judeo-Christians, get the hell out of America. (sarcasm)

Of course flag burning should be legal! I'm reminded of what the son of a soldier said on Tucker Carlson's new show. Roughly, he says that his dad told him once that while he personally despised it, he thought flag burning should be legal. In fact, he said that that's what he was fighting for, he was fighting for a person's right to do it.

And Squawker, you can't limit freedom. Once you 'limit' freedom, it no longer is a freedom, obviously.
 
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26 X World Champs

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Squawker said:
I think there should be limits on what we call "free speech" and burning the flag is one of them IMO. Not everything that one thinks should be spoken or acted upon. I think it falls into the same category as cross burning. I don't like this word, but it is hate speech and should be illegal.
Incredible! The truth comes out! You're against the First Amendment. You're against the foundation of what this country was built upon.

Why don't you organize a good old fashioned book burning? If you think that depriving someone of their first amendment rights is patriotic I strongly suggest you take a remedial course on Free Speech & The 1st Amendment. You want to be a patriot? Do everything you can to protect one's right to free speech, even when it makes you sick or angry.

 

LaMidRighter

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26 X World Champs said:
So, as a "good" American you're advocating legal violence against any American who burns a flag? Genius! So, in truth, you're violently against the First Amendment.
All I am saying is that if someone decides to misuse a right, then they should accept whatever non-lethal punishment comes their way, for instance, I am white and if I drop an N-bomb I would fully expect to get lit up once or twice, I don't believe that anyone has a right to not be offended, but there are consequences that come from offensive actions, and flag burning certainly is offensive, as well as petty, childish, and disgusting.
 

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vauge said:
Should flag buring be allowed to continue in the US?

Is it a form of expression?
Yes, it's political expression through a symbolic act, and political expression, however odious it may seem to us, is speech protected by the Bill of Rights. At the time, I detested the deliberate insult rendered to Jews by the American Nazi Party who obtained a parade permit to march in Skokie, IL, a heavily Jewish area, but I would defend with my life their right to do so.

Because, tomorrow, it might be my turn to protest as a minority.

Or even today.
 

26 X World Champs

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LaMidRighter said:
All I am saying is that if someone decides to misuse a right, then they should accept whatever non-lethal punishment comes their way, for instance, I am white and if I drop an N-bomb I would fully expect to get lit up once or twice, I don't believe that anyone has a right to not be offended, but there are consequences that come from offensive actions, and flag burning certainly is offensive, as well as petty, childish, and disgusting.
Its quite a simple concept you know? If you assault someone you get arrested. There's no such thing as a legal assault. What you've written is that you're willing to accept vigilantism, aka, revenge violence aimed at people who say something you disagree with.

You can try to spin your posts anyway you choose, but the reality is that you wrote you understand (meaning you're OK) with someone beating you up if you use a racial slur, that you "have it coming." My point is, despite the grotesque nature of racial slurs you have a right to say it. Consequences? Legally you can be taken to task, verbally or in writing, but not physically, no matter what. Surely, if you really think about it you must agree?
 

Squawker

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My point is, despite the grotesque nature of racial slurs you have a right to say it. Consequences? Legally you can be taken to task, verbally or in writing, but not physically, no matter what. Surely, if you really think about it you must agree?
You can say it if you want to go to jail for hate speech Champ. That is all I said in my post that you lefties so gleefully jump on as a first amendment issue. Burning the flag should be in the same catagory IMO. Why should we have laws about a racial slur and not a slur on our national symbol?
 

LaMidRighter

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26 X World Champs said:
LaMidRighter said:
Its quite a simple concept you know? If you assault someone you get arrested. There's no such thing as a legal assault. What you've written is that you're willing to accept vigilantism, aka, revenge violence aimed at people who say something you disagree with.
This is where you are wrong Champ, there are plenty of cases of legal assault, such as self defense, sanctioned prize fights, defense of others, temporary insanity, and "heat of passion" attacks(in other words, you were in such a trying situation that you could not prevent yourself from committing a violent act).

You can try to spin your posts anyway you choose, but the reality is that you wrote you understand (meaning you're OK) with someone beating you up if you use a racial slur, that you "have it coming."
I am not okay with getting beat up, but I do understand why it would happen, sounds to me like you are the one trying to spin here and are attempting to make me look like a sadist here.
My point is, despite the grotesque nature of racial slurs you have a right to say it. Consequences? Legally you can be taken to task, verbally or in writing, but not physically, no matter what. Surely, if you really think about it you must agree?
Now, like I said earlier, no one in this country has a right NOT to be offended, if someone doesn't like my speech, they are free to express that to me or leave the situation, once again, I would also expect or at least be prepared for a passionate response to that, it's funny how you will defend flag burning with no civil or real world consequences, but you say there is nothing wrong for punishing people for offending people of a differing background, flag burning affects ALL of your countrymen, isms affect only certain groups. Of course, I think I've figured out how to get liberals on the side of punishment for our anti-flag burnining legislation, we'll just add an ism to the act.
 

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Re: Flag buring

galenrox said:
It matters a lot to me, and it makes me really ****ing mad when I see it, but that doesn't mean that it should be illegal. It is part of free speech, and I will defend their right to do it, just like I believe that white power people should be allowed to say what they want, the so-called evangelicals should be allowed to say what they want, and anyone else who pisses me off!

Agreed. I don't like to see it done, but I would defend others right to do it.
 

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LaMidRighter said:
I don't think you got the point, there is no insecurity on my nation's part, I am not moaning about anything, but like I said, if someone has the huevos to burn an American flag in front of a veteran, then that veteran should be able to fully and legally kick his @$#. Once again, it is not the cloth, it is all of the ideals that reside within. . . . And, once again, those in this country who are citizens and feel that we are not living up to their expectations of life by our traditions are free to get the @#$% out, and trust me, they won't be missed.
I love the First Amendment and take advantage of it all the time - hence, my presence here. But LMR has it right - flag burning is an insult to every man and woman who ever put on a uniform. While I've not served the US through the military, I have many friends and family who have and continue to serve. These men and women fought and died for someone's right to burn the flag and to espouse their anti-American hatred at the same time they continue to reap the benefits of living here. Should it be illegal - nope, we shouldn't have to regulate the respect the flag (and all it symbolizes) deserves.
 

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Squawker said:
I think there should be limits on what we call "free speech" and burning the flag is one of them IMO. Not everything that one thinks should be spoken or acted upon. I think it falls into the same category as cross burning. I don't like this word, but it is hate speech and should be illegal.
I agree that flag burning is the ultimate disrespect to the country and the political system (vanishing rapidly nowadays) that allows you to perform that act with impunity. Dissent and criticism are protected speech. Burning the flag is not hate speech per se, because hate speech as it is understood legally is directed against a specific person or group of persons. Hate groups direct invective calling for economic, political, or physical harm to target people or groups on the basis of what those people or groups are (something they can't help being) -- not necessarily on the basis of what they do. Flag burning is directed against the United States as a nation, and almost always against the government, not against private individuals. Even if the attitude behind the flag burning is hatred, it is an expression of opinion which does not intend to harm or threaten a person -- unless you consider that the flag burner could get burned himself in the process!

The way I see it, flag burning is the protest of the profoundly stupid. They don't know how better to express themselves.
 

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geekgrrl said:
The way I see it, flag burning is the protest of the profoundly stupid. They don't know how better to express themselves.
Wish I'd said that :smile:
 

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edb19 said:
I love the First Amendment and take advantage of it all the time - hence, my presence here. But LMR has it right - flag burning is an insult to every man and woman who ever put on a uniform. While I've not served the US through the military, I have many friends and family who have and continue to serve. These men and women fought and died for someone's right to burn the flag and to espouse their anti-American hatred at the same time they continue to reap the benefits of living here. Should it be illegal - nope, we shouldn't have to regulate the respect the flag (and all it symbolizes) deserves.
I find it very interesting that people get their panties in a bunch over a symbolic act like this, or not standing up for the Pledge of Allegiance, yet they have no problem with government sanctioned torture or denying people due process or freedom of speech.

 

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Squawker said:
I think there should be limits on what we call "free speech" and burning the flag is one of them IMO. Not everything that one thinks should be spoken or acted upon. I think it falls into the same category as cross burning. I don't like this word, but it is hate speech and should be illegal.
Yes and no, to your comment. I personally don't see it as a form of hate speach in general. Its meant to be when other persons in other countries do it, but their laws will suffice. Here in this country however, no one is inciting anyone to burn down the White House or the Congress. It's a form of protest and decent. Something I so strongly defend I took a vow to protect that freedom for all citizens, believe in it so strongly that I would gladly give my own life to protect such freedom. That is the one thing about this country that actually sets us apart from so many others.
We have the right and freedom to disagree with our leaders and to show our dissatifaction in ways that would put peoples of other countries in prison or would have them subjected to unheard of forms of torture.
 
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