• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Flag burning

Should US flag buring be illegal?

  • No it's a form of expression

    Votes: 38 66.7%
  • Yes it should be illegal

    Votes: 13 22.8%
  • I really do not care

    Votes: 4 7.0%
  • Depends [please post]

    Votes: 2 3.5%

  • Total voters
    57

edb19

Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
0
Location
Sylvania, Ohio
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I was being petty in my comment - and for that I apologize.

I stand by my earlier comment - flag burning is protected speech. I might not like it, but I'm not going to take away someone's 1st Amendment rights.

I do, however, believe it to be a slap in the face to every military man and woman who has served or is serving this country. These men and women put their money where their mouths are and gave the flag burners the right to protest.
 

26 X World Champs

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
edb19 said:

I do, however, believe it to be a slap in the face to every military man and woman who has served or is serving this country. These men and women put their money where their mouths are and gave the flag burners the right to protest.
I agree, of course. However, one would hope that the discipline instilled into our soldiers would prevent them from burning someone's car or beating the living daylights out of the protester.

We, as Americans should hold ourselves to higher standards for that is what makes America great. When we lower ourselves to the standards of our adversaries we are also slapping the face of all Americans. I for one, do not want someone burning someone's car or beating someone up because they set a flag, which is simply a symbol, on fire. The person doing that does not represent me, and does not, IMHO, represent America.

I do believe that being in the military carries extra responsibility in terms of representing the USA. I believe that being in the military necessitates much more than defending our country. It also includes being a visible symbol of what's great about America. A soldier can be on the front line of a war as our exhibit of being American, but he/she must also be a diplomat at times, and advocating violence when violence is not called for is not going to better America.
 

Hoot

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
1,686
Reaction score
18
Location
State of Confusion
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Just the fact that we have the freedom to burn the flag, shows how much freedom the flag actually represents.

What a great country! We can burn the flag as a form of protest, and not worry about being beheaded.

After all, the flag is just a symbol. Burning the flag does not burn our freedoms, but strengthens our freedoms. It shows the world how free we actually are...it shows the world, that it is the people who ultimately control government, not government controlling the people.

Besides....what happens if this amendment passes?

Will someone wearing a flag bandana be arrested? Will someone who forgets to take their flag down at sunset be arrested? If you have a flag decal on an old junker car, will that be a form of disrespect? Will a flag in the window of a topless bar be a sign of disrespect? If I stand on a street corner and proclaim loudly that the flag should be burned, can I be arrested?

Where does it all end? We're opening a terrible can of worms that we may never be able to close.

Dear Congress, stop wasting time...get on with the real business, and stop trying to limit our freedoms and increase the power of 'Big Government' over the people.
 

26 X World Champs

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Hoot said:
Just the fact that we have the freedom to burn the flag, shows how much freedom the flag actually represents.

What a great country! We can burn the flag as a form of protest, and not worry about being beheaded.

After all, the flag is just a symbol. Burning the flag does not burn our freedoms, but strengthens our freedoms. It shows the world how free we actually are...it shows the world, that it is the people who ultimately control government, not government controlling the people.

Besides....what happens if this amendment passes?

Will someone wearing a flag bandana be arrested? Will someone who forgets to take their flag down at sunset be arrested? If you have a flag decal on an old junker car, will that be a form of disrespect? Will a flag in the window of a topless bar be a sign of disrespect? If I stand on a street corner and proclaim loudly that the flag should be burned, can I be arrested?

Where does it all end? We're opening a terrible can of worms that we may never be able to close.

Dear Congress, stop wasting time...get on with the real business, and stop trying to limit our freedoms and increase the power of 'Big Government' over the people.
Great post Hoot! :applaud

You said it all, and you said it right!
 

Repub05

New member
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
What exactly does burning a flag express? How the hell am I or the government supposed to know what a guys angry about when he's burning a flag? The flag is a living symbol of our democracy that many have died for and I don't like it getting screwed with because some guy doesn't like the way the governments doing something. Once again I ask, how am I supposed to interpret exactly what the guys problem is when he's using the vaugest form of 'expression'? It should be illegal. And I agree with Squawker's statement 100%.

I think there should be limits on what we call "free speech" and burning the flag is one of them IMO. Not everything that one thinks should be spoken or acted upon. I think it falls into the same category as cross burning. I don't like this word, but it is hate speech and should be illegal.
 

Pacridge

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
9
Location
Pacific Northwest US
edb19 said:

I stand by my earlier comment - flag burning is protected speech. I might not like it, but I'm not going to take away someone's 1st Amendment rights.

I do, however, believe it to be a slap in the face to every military man and woman who has served or is serving this country. These men and women put their money where their mouths are and gave the flag burners the right to protest.

Excellent post. I agree 100%.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
149
Reaction score
0
Location
BEAUTIFUL Ohio, BEAUTIFUL USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
edb19 said:


I do, however, believe it to be a slap in the face to every military man and woman who has served or is serving this country. These men and women put their money where their mouths are and gave the flag burners the right to protest.

Same here. Your disgracing this country when you burn our flag. If you hate america so much that you want to disgrace it like that then you should leave the country. People should think about how many me and women died fighting under that flag so that they could have the rightd to burn it.
 

Naughty Nurse

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
12
Location
The UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
guns_God_glory said:
Same here. Your disgracing this country when you burn our flag. If you hate america so much that you want to disgrace it like that then you should leave the country. People should think about how many me and women died fighting under that flag so that they could have the rightd to burn it.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance here, but it seems to be that we have the same tortured logic going on that we have seen previously with the Pledge of Allegiance. Thi stime:

People should burn flags because people gave their lives so that they (the flag burners) would have the right to bun the flag. From that "logic" it would appear that people gave their lives in order to restrict freedom.

I'm afraid I really can't follow that one. :confused:
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,631
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The same people that won't open the door to protect our flag are the same people that look down upon the people that won't open the door to stem cell research. The hypocracy is pathetic.

The next time I get to apply first aid to one of my Marines that received shrapnel or took a 7.62 round to his shoulder, I'll remind him of how proud the flag burner and liberal supporter is of him back home for protecting their perverted 1st Ammendment rights.

Our National Ensign just means more to some than others. There's no sense in arguing it. Chances are it's going to continue to be legal anyway. Then our Congress can move on to more important issues....like fillibusting.
 
Last edited:

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Repub05 said:
What exactly does burning a flag express? It should be illegal.



It expresses a safety hazard and should require a permit or at least a mandatory fire safety class.

There are a couple of pictures out there with some protesters with their hair or hands on fire which I would not mind but they stumble around on fire which is a hazard.

Here is one that eventually jumped under a bulldozer.

rachel-corrie-flag-02.jpg


Rachel Corrie, 23, from Olympia, Wash., a member of the 'International Solidarity Movement,' burns a mock U.S. flag during a rally in the southern Gaza Strip (news - web sites) town of Rafah in this Feb. 15, 2003 file photo.
It's a shame that Rachel Corrie died the way she did. It's shameful that she lived the way she did.




Eventually Darwins law weeds out stupidity no matter what.
 

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Naughty Nurse said:
You'll have to excuse my ignorance here, but it seems to be that we have the same tortured logic going on that we have seen previously with the Pledge of Allegiance. Thi stime:

People should burn flags because people gave their lives so that they (the flag burners) would have the right to bun the flag. From that "logic" it would appear that people gave their lives in order to restrict freedom.

I'm afraid I really can't follow that one. :confused:


It is a simple matter of respect.
Just because you "can" do something does not mean you should.
I am sure we all can understand that on some level.
In any case any citizen is free to leave any time they want if they do not like the climate.
Odd though we do not see a mass exodus rather the US is receiving staggering amounts of people legal and illegal across the borders.
Why is that do you suppose if it is so bad here?
 

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
guns_God_glory said:
Same here. Your disgracing this country when you burn our flag. .

I disagree.
An inflammatory(heh) flag burner disgraces themselves far more than anything else.
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

Active member
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
446
Reaction score
0
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
akyron said:
It is a simple matter of respect.
Just because you "can" do something does not mean you should.
I am sure we all can understand that on some level.
In any case any citizen is free to leave any time they want if they do not like the climate.
Odd though we do not see a mass exodus rather the US is receiving staggering amounts of people legal and illegal across the borders.
Why is that do you suppose if it is so bad here?

Thank you for some sanity. Great post.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Did you all notice the children in the picture akyron posted? How many of the kids will believe her rantings against the US and hate us? I have been chastised for using Liberals as a term of reference so I will say this. People on the left do not seem to understand this promotes hate for Americans around the world. Al Jezeera shows the image hundreds of times per week. If this was done in America it would be shown a hundred times a day.
 

26 X World Champs

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
GySgt said:
The same people that won't open the door to protect our flag are the same people that look down upon the people that won't open the door to stem cell research. The hypocracy is pathetic.
I'm sorry, but I do not understand the analogy here? What does freedom of speech and the 1st Amendment have to do with finding cures for diseases?
GySgt said:
The next time I get to apply first aid to one of my Marines that received shrapnel or took a 7.62 round to his shoulder, I'll remind him of how proud the flag burner and liberal supporter is of him back home for protecting their perverted 1st Ammendment rights.
Can you please tell me who these flag burners are? When is the last time it happened in the USA? You make it sound like it's a daily event when as far as I know it hasn't happen even once this century?

BTW - Do you know what Teddy Roosevelt once said?
[/quote] To announce that there must be no criticism of the president... is morally treasonable to the American public.[/quote]
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,631
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Both sides argue the dangers of opening doors.


The last time it was burnt in America is hardly the point.
 

26 X World Champs

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Squawker said:
I have been chastised for using Liberals as a term of reference so I will say this. People on the left do not seem to understand this promotes hate for Americans around the world. Al Jezeera shows the image hundreds of times per week. If this was done in America it would be shown a hundred times a day.
I find it remarkable, no check that, disgusting that anyone would look at a picture of someone in Palestine and claims that only Republicans can understand that the picture promotes hate against the USA. It's obvious that to some the hate of even the word liberal is the equivalent of bigotry.

Why are some of you claiming that there's a outbreak of flag burning in the USA? What is it with you all?

BTW Squawk, you just wrote that Al Jezeera shows the image of an American Flag burning hundreds of times each week. PROVE IT! Statements like that are untrue. Why do people have to use untruths to express their point of view? What's wrong with simply telling the truth?
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,631
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Self serving political parties aside...........All Americans hate seeing the American flag being burnt. From this group there are those that care enough to do something about it and those that simply don't care enough and mire the issue in the ever confusion of what our "Founding Fathers intended."
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
BTW Squawk, you just wrote that Al Jezeera shows the image of an American Flag burning hundreds of times each week. PROVE IT! Statements like that are untrue. Why do people have to use untruths to express their point of view? What's wrong with simply telling the truth?
Al Jezeera is a hate America propaganda machine, if you don't think they wouldn't do it, you prove it is untrue.
 

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
26 X World Champs said:
Why are some of you claiming that there's a outbreak of flag burning in the USA? What is it with you all? QUOTE]

I never saw that.

Even this thread is a colossal waste of time let alone spending our tax dollars on the house and senate.
This is just another excuse for our representatives and senators to waste another day on the hill when they could be doing something worthwhile.

Everyone knows right from wrong and they should not have to waste time making a law to tell us to get out of the rain.
 

26 X World Champs

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
GySgt said:
Self serving political parties aside...........All Americans hate seeing the American flag being burnt. From this group there are those that care enough to do something about it and those that simply don't care enough and mire the issue in the ever confusion of what our "Founding Fathers intended."
YES! Finally! All Americans hate to see our flag desecrated, thank you! Too many posts here recently imply that Liberals are on the side of the flag burners, that in effect, they are traitors.

May I clarify? To me, the right to free expression is not about flag burning. It can be anything almost. I mean that I value, to the death, someone's right to these freedoms, and that to compromise on this principle is a slippery slope that will lead to the loss of more and more freedoms.

To me, the loss of freedoms is as Un-American as it gets. America is built on freedoms, and we're built on an inner strength that has higher standards and more self-control than other nations. In other words, sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me! You know?
 

26 X World Champs

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Squawker said:
Al Jezeera is a hate America propaganda machine, if you don't think they wouldn't do it, you prove it is untrue.
Backpedaling? You wrote that Al Jezeera shows American flags being burnt hundreds of times each week. I say that is untrue. I asked you to prove what you wrote, so why won't you?
 

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
26 X World Champs said:
Can you please tell me who these flag burners are? When is the last time it happened in the USA?


A Brief History
of Flag Burning





Not that many. We have however spent millions on legislation on something that is annoying and offensive but clearly a non-critical issue. Kicking someone ass for burning a flag in your face is also a non-critical issue
if one is willing to spend a night in jail.
 

MSgt

Stabler Genius
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
26,272
Reaction score
11,631
Location
Highlands Ranch, CO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Celebrating rights and freedoms and abusing rights and freedoms are two different things.

A flag burner in my presence will incite an unfavorable response.
Something like this would be nice.....http://www.patriotsherald.com/content/flagburner.php

I'd prefer not to get on the subject of Al-Jazeera. That is another subject that would rate it's own commentary and would upset some of the people on this site.
 
Last edited:

akyron

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
10,352
Reaction score
2,436
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
GySgt said:
Celebrating rights and freedoms and abusing rights and freedoms are two different things.

A flag burner in my presence will incite an unfavorable response.
Something like this would be nice.....http://www.patriotsherald.com/content/flagburner.php

I'd prefer not to get on the subject of Al-Jazeera. That is another subject that would rate it's own commentary and would upset some of the people on this site.


Agreed. Make another topic on AJ.
 
Top Bottom