First exit polls show Herzog and Netanyahu with 27-28 mandates each

[donsutherland1]

Then why do they have them? And why do they need them?

Seems like a real $ sink to develop,build, and maintain them if just for show.

Deterrence. Moreover, Israel maintains a posture of strategic ambiguity (not acknowledging such weapons) in an effort premised on the assumption that the greater uncertainty would strengthen deterrence.

 

[Thrilla]

Then why do they have them? And why do they need them?

Seems like a real $ sink to develop,build, and maintain them if just for show.

deterrence.

Israel has more of a need of a deterrence than any other nation on earth.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

I disagree. The common bilateral interests ranging from security to economic ones are far larger than a matter of personalities and the differences that exist concerning such matters as strategy related to Iran.

I don't consider racism, disrespect to the president and a desire for war over diplomacy to be a mere matter "personality" and "strategy".

 

[ThePlayDrive]

But you aren't President.
So who cares?

Who said anyone cared? Although now that you mention it, my guess is that the American politicians who want my vote and my money care.

 

[ido_]

Who said anyone cared? Although now that you mention it, my guess is that the American politicians who want my vote and my money care.

interesting, that doesn't seem to work like this in this part of the world :lol:

 

[Jack Fabulous]

interesting, that doesn't seem to work like this in this part of the world :lol:

It really doesn't work like that here, either. Unless you operate a super PAC they really don't give a **** what your opinions are.

 

[CJ 2.0]

I don't consider racism, disrespect to the president and a desire for war over diplomacy to be a mere matter "personality" and "strategy".

Yes, godforbid that your monarch be disrespected. Oh wait, he's just a guy (and not a very impressive one at that).

Oh, but racisty racism, so there.

Just as an extra note, I love how the progressive left is all in knots about racisty racism by the joos, yet the explicit, openly genocidal racism of the Arab world against the Jews, and by the Palestinians gainst the Jews, merits not a peep.

 

[donsutherland1]

I don't consider racism, disrespect to the president and a desire for war over diplomacy to be a mere matter "personality" and "strategy".

Several points:

1. My read on the Prime Minister's comments regarding a high Arab turnout was that such a turnout favored his opposition. He was trying to motivate those who support him to turn out in greater numbers.

2. It is no secret that both President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu don't have a great personal relationship and both have made comments that reflect that nature of their relationship. However, their responsibility as President of the U.S. and Prime Minister of Israel is to work to strengthen areas of common interest regardless of their personal relationship.

3. When it comes to the threat posed by a nuclear-armed Iran, the treat is not equal to the U.S. and Israel. Israel's margin for error is vastly smaller than the United States' margin for error. Israel is a tiny country and one or two nuclear weapons would pose a potential existential threat to Israel. Israel is also far closer to Iran than the U.S. is and it would have less time to respond to a possible attack. In contrast, such an arsenal would pose some regional balance-of-power issues for the U.S. but not an existential threat to the U.S. Moreover, Iran rejects Israel's legitimacy and efforts have been made in the past to conquer Israel. In short, Israel's perspective reflects those dynamics and historical experience. Hence, Israel wants a much stronger agreement with much greater safeguards than what the U.S. might be willing to accept. Moreover, Israel is more inclined to use force, if it feels it is necessary, given the possible existential threat it would face. Those differences in posture are not irrational.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Yes, godforbid that your monarch be disrespected. Oh wait, he's just a guy (and not a very impressive one at that).

I wasn't aware that only monarchs should be respected by their allies. I thought that that was just a part of being in an "alliance". If pro-Israel people disagree, I guess that explains a lot.

Oh, but racisty racism, so there.

Not surprising that a pro-Israel poster would minimize racism when it's directed at anybody but Jewish Israelis.

Just as an extra note, I love how the progressive left is all in knots about racisty racism by the joos, yet the explicit, openly genocidal racism of the Arab world against the Jews, and by the Palestinians gainst the Jews, merits not a peep.

Whatever problem you've fabricated about the "progressive left" doesn't include me as I'm critical of antisemitism in Palestine and in general. I do like how pro-Israel people always manage to deflect from Israel's racism by almost always saying "but look over there, they're worse". I guess that's how they justify supporting the murder of so many Palestinian children.

 

[mbig]

I wasn't aware that only monarchs should be respected by their allies. I thought that that was just a part of being in an "alliance". If pro-Israel people disagree, I guess that explains a lot.

Israel is the NON-Monarchy state in the M-E.

Not surprising that a pro-Israel poster would minimize racism when it's directed at anybody but Jewish Israelis.

AS Joko pointed out to you, UNanswered, Israel was set up as a homeland/refuge for the Jews.
Which is not to condone racism.
Of course, many/most countries are composed of and favor one ethnic group. That's what makes many countries coherent. ie Japan, a far more xenophobic/racist country at that. And so many more.

Whatever problem you've fabricated about the "progressive left" doesn't include me as I'm critical of antisemitism in Palestine and in general. I do like how pro-Israel people always manage to deflect from Israel's racism by almost always saying "but look over there, they're worse". I guess that's how they justify supporting the murder of so many Palestinian children.

It's true/ Your are Not "progressive left", your post is "Hard Left".
ie, calling the deaths of Palestnian Children "Murder", instead of unfortunate collateral damage, is right up there with/Classic Anti-Semitic Blood Libel. (except you forgot the blood to make Matzohs).
BTW, Half of Palestine is Children (17 or under) by Western standards anyway, and of course some are fighters nonetheless.

A am pro-Israel, pro-2-state, anti-Netanyahu, and I find your post/Posts Grossly antisemitic, despite your token (if not complete BS) claim about about 'criticizing antisemitism in palestine'.
Most Arab countries, which all have about zero Jews, and vanishing/vanished Christians, are antisemitic.

 

[CJ 2.0]

I wasn't aware that only monarchs should be respected by their allies. I thought that that was just a part of being in an "alliance". If pro-Israel people disagree, I guess that explains a lot.

Sorry, where in the "alliance guide to etiquette" does it say it is totally cool for one party to organize, fund and administer a campaign to defeat the government of their ally?

And please direct me to the part that says it is totally ok for the US to sell out their allies to coddle enemies.

Obama is a disaster through and through. You may have drunk the kool-aid, but the Israelis seem to believe their survival is more important that your conception of etiquette.

Those uppity Jews...

Not surprising that a pro-Israel poster would minimize racism when it's directed at anybody but Jewish Israelis.

blah blah. Racisty racism. I get it.

Also, racism.

Whatever problem you've fabricated about the "progressive left" doesn't include me as I'm critical of antisemitism in Palestine and in general. I do like how pro-Israel people always manage to deflect from Israel's racism by almost always saying "but look over there, they're worse". I guess that's how they justify supporting the murder of so many Palestinian children.

of course you are. Everyone is against anti-semitism when talking about it, even most anti-semites. Sure saying bad things about Jews is wrong, but here's a whole bumnch of reasons why those things are true, and even if I won't say those, here is a whole bunch of support for overt anti-semites pursuing antisemetic objectives.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

[...]

Those uppity Jews...

...

of course you are. Everyone is against anti-semitism when talking about it, even most anti-semites. Sure saying bad things about Jews is wrong, but here's a whole bumnch of reasons why those things are true, and even if I won't say those, here is a whole bunch of support for overt anti-semites pursuing antisemetic objectives.

I'm not going to continue a conversation with someone who's accusing of me being antisemitic. That's one the worst, though most obvious, tactics that pro-Israeli people use to silence criticism of Israel. Just accuse critics of being antisemitic and be done with it. I'm not going to play the game. There are certainly people who use criticism of Israel as smoke screen for expressing antisemitism, but you're barking up the wrong tree on that one. I will, however, say that conversations like these strengthen my support of severing ties with Israel. I'll be evaluating candidates on the basis of their position on Israel even more now.

 

[CJ 2.0]

I'm not going to continue a conversation with someone who's accusing of me being antisemitic. That's one the worst, though most obvious, tactics that pro-Israeli people use to silence criticism of Israel. Just accuse critics of being antisemitic and be done with it. I'm not going to play the game. There are certainly people who use criticism of Israel as smoke screen for expressing antisemitism, but you're barking up the wrong tree on that one.

Yes. Cause when you and yours start a thread about how racisty racist all the Jews in Israel are for electing someone to defend them, you obviously have the moral standing to get all rightous when you get called out for views that are also racisty racist in effect and appearance, if not in intent. Yet I never accused you of anything - indeed I said of course you were not anti-semetic just like you claimed you were.

So take your ball and go home and all of us racisty racists who believe in Israel as a Jewish homeland will have to be all racisty without you.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

calling the deaths of Palestnian Children "Murder", instead of unfortunate collateral damage

Stopped here. An argument based on the minimization of such deaths as "unfortunate collateral damage" is an argument that is not based in enough empathy and value for human life to have any credibility to me. You may as well have just typed "Palestinian children are worthless" as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Yes. Cause when you and yours start a thread about how racisty racist all the Jews in Israel are for electing someone to defend them, you obviously have the moral standing to get all rightous when you get called out for views that are also racisty racist in effect and appearance, if not in intent. Yet I never accused you of anything - indeed I said of course you were not anti-semetic just like you claimed you were.

So take your ball and go home and all of us racisty racists who believe in Israel as a Jewish homeland will have to be all racisty without you.

It's not about comparative "moral standing". It's about honoring my own standards.

And your snide remarks about "uppity Jews" used the same sort of smoke screen to accuse me of being antisemitic that antisemites use to express their prejudice under the guise of critiquing Israel. Your and their dog whistles are the same.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Stopped here. An argument based on the minimization of such deaths as "unfortunate collateral damage" is an argument that is not based in enough empathy and value for human life to have any credibility to me. You may as well have just typed "Palestinian children are worthless" as far as I'm concerned.

Yet the misapplication of the word "murder" is just fine. Credibility in deed...

 

[mbig]

..It's true/ Your are Not "progressive left", your post is "Hard Left".
ie, calling the deaths of Palestnian Children "Murder", instead of unfortunate collateral damage,
(ThePlayDRive stopped with merely the above)
is right up there with/Classic Anti-Semitic Blood Libel. (except you forgot the blood to make Matzohs).
BTW, Half of Palestine is Children (17 or under) by Western standards anyway, and of course some are fighters nonetheless.

A am pro-Israel, pro-2-state, anti-Netanyahu, and I find your post/Posts Grossly antisemitic, despite your token (if not complete BS) claim about about 'criticizing antisemitism in palestine'.
Most Arab countries, which all have about zero Jews

calling the deaths of Palestnian Children "Murder", instead of unfortunate collateral damage

Stopped here. An argument based on the minimization of such deaths as "unfortunate collateral damage" is an argument that is not based in enough empathy and value for human life to have any credibility to me. You may as well have just typed "Palestinian children are worthless" as far as I'm concerned.

You mean you Necessarily and Dishonestly "stopped there" because the part/Bulk/Meat you cut off, explains why I'm Correct, and YOUR post is the one showing Inflammatory Racist Language.

Not to mention the rest of my post you didn't answer: besides the 'Child Murder' charge/libel.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Stopped here. An argument based on the minimization of such deaths as "unfortunate collateral damage" is an argument that is not based in enough empathy and value for human life to have any credibility to me. You may as well have just typed "Palestinian children are worthless" as far as I'm concerned.

Which is fine. But you are still wrong.

Murder is what the Palestinians do when they kidnap and kill children, when they sneak into houses and slit throats, when they lob rockets at kindergardens.

castigating Israel for defeinding itself as "murdering children" IS claptrap drawing on long-worn antisemetic tropes. That you have internalized them allows you to deny their very existence, but we have long memories and have been trained by repeated genocides to pay attention to such things.

 

[American]

Looks like Bibi won. If you supported Herzog, too bad.

 

[CJ 2.0]

It's not about comparative "moral standing". It's about honoring my own standards.

Which say what about a national movement whose core purpose is the detruction of the Jeiwhs state and whose core tactic is to try to murder people?

You condemn and slander those who try to defend themselves from an openly rejectionist movement whose founding and sole objective is to destroy the other side. They have no broader purpose, no game beyond that end game. And yet you casually draw on the antisemetic trop of Jews as baby killers to castigate Israel without even for a second appreciating that we have ACTUAL EXAMPLES of the Palestinians sneaking into houses to kill babies.

So whatever lets you sleep at night about your "standards".

And your snide remarks about "uppity Jews" used the same sort of smoke screen to accuse me of being antisemitic that antisemites use to express their prejudice under the guise of critiquing Israel. Your and their dog whistles are the same.

Right. Like I said, whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Apocalypse]

Who said anyone cared? Although now that you mention it, my guess is that the American politicians who want my vote and my money care.

Considering you're in the overwhelming minority - no they don't.

 

[Apocalypse]

Whatever problem you've fabricated about the "progressive left" doesn't include me as I'm critical of antisemitism in Palestine and in general. I do like how pro-Israel people always manage to deflect from Israel's racism by almost always saying "but look over there, they're worse". I guess that's how they justify supporting the murder of so many Palestinian children.

Right. Murder. So now we are under the belief that commanders in the Israeli army order their soldiers to shoot innocent children. (Because in case you didn't realize that's what murder means) I really wonder how you manage to work that view of yours out. Do you also find American soldiers to be murderers? British? Or is just them Jews? Scratch that, I honestly don't care, don't even respond to this comment.