Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yes, it was on the 911 call.

No.
That is an interpretation of what is said.
It also could very well be punk that was said.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Again, Zimmerman might have felt he could handle the problem. However, if the kid wasn't really scared and attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman would be in the right to shoot the kid.

Why would the kid attack Zimmerman? What would be his motivation?

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I am not saying that Zimmerman didn't do what he thought was correct as NW by calling it in, but as someone who knows, and is friends with local law enforcement here in SC, and as one who holds a CWP, at the point where you make the call you, I would think observe, not confront, and let the police do their job.

And the evidence says that is what he was trying to do. Keep him under observation until police arrived.
It was Trayvon who confronted Zimmerman.

Second, what exactly is the suspicious behavior again? Looking at houses as he walks out of the neighborhood? Wow, I guess he should have stared at the ground as he walked briskly out eh? God forbid that someone should pay attention to their surroundings...

As pointed out, Zimmerman thought Trayvon's actions were suspicious. That is a sufficient. Sufficient enough for the police to respond.

Well that changes everything, we had no idea you were there on the street during the confrontation.
It sounds as if you have been watching too many cop shows on tv.

You need to look at the facts instead of relying totally on what a perp says.

I most definitely are relying on the facts of this incident that we know of.

It is not unusual for a defendent who has just killed somebody to change the story so that he is the victim.

It is not unusual to tell the truth either, is it?
As far as I am concerned, Zimmerman didn't have enough time to make up a lie that would fit all the evidence as his statement does.
The police were on the scene immediately. He had no time to concoct an air tight dissertation of events under the stress he just went through.
I also don't think he would have been able to sustain a quickly made up lie in the face of hours long police questioning.
That scenario, him lying, just isn't plausible.

Did they even confiscate the pistol?

If it is required by law, do you think it didn't?

No, what matters here is that he took it upon himself to play vigilante and a kid is dead as a result.

He wasn't playing vigilante. He was acting in his capacity as NW and was trying to keep the kid under observation until police arrived.

 

[TheNextEra]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Why would the kid attack Zimmerman? What would be his motivation?

Pissed that some dude is following him. I've had rude comments from people for a lot less than that.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There is no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman "started it" -- when he elected to leave his car and follow this kid on foot. Whatever happened then's on him. He was STALKING him!

I think it has already been pointed out, but leaving your car is not starting anything.
Leaving your car to keep someone under observation until police arrive is not "stalking".

Let me put it this way.
How do you get "stalking" from the actions of a NW leaving his car to keep someone under observation until poilice arrive?

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Actually, both co-sponsors said this:



Author of "stand your ground" law: George Zimmerman should probably be arrested for killing Trayvon Martin - Crimesider - CBS News

That's the case, right there. Just like Lozano, the Miami cop who failed to use self-defense as the excuse for shooting a motorcyclist who he claimed was trying to run him over after it was revealed in court that Lozano put himself into harms way by running out into the street to try and stop the motorcyclist.

You lose your right of self defense when you are the aggressor.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Council of Conservative Citizens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

my friend, you just lost a ****load of legitimacy in this thread, by sourcing the Council of Conservative Citizens. They are a racist organization, notorious for supporting the Confederate flag, white nationalism, and white seperatism. They were formed by former-Segregationists.

yeah man, you messed up big time with this. Its now logical to conclude that your motivation in this issue is anti-black.

Yeah, not a really good site to post.
Did you bother to look at the information provided and it's source?
I ask because people tend to over-look the information when they don't like the site.

Here is what was linked to from it's source.

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

There is actual video at the above link.

 

[ric27]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yes, your describing one of the skillls someone will need to kill Zimmerman using the SYGL.

No

If the system is already that hard on the police themselves, it's a step into that world if a civilian does anything.

Not that every cop is gonna treat you like a criminal ****bag once they know you did the right thing but you never know. And if you start running you're mouth about what you did it could very likley be used against you in criminal court and definitely in civil court. You plan for the worst and hope for the best. It does'nt do you or you're family any good to survive the fight on the street and then lose the battle in court because you ran you're mouth.

Again, you STFU and wait for your lawyer

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

yes, following someone in a car and then on foot, in the middle of the night and the rain, is pretty intimidating.

Martin was right to be in fear.

Does anybody actually know what time the incident occurred?

 

[ARealConservative]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

That's the case, right there. Just like Lozano, the Miami cop who failed to use self-defense as the excuse for shooting a motorcyclist who he claimed was trying to run him over after it was revealed in court that Lozano put himself into harms way by running out into the street to try and stop the motorcyclist.

You lose your right of self defense when you are the aggressor.

detaining a person is an act of aggression, tailing him is not.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Again, the police dispatcher (likely had Zimmerman's 50 plus call record in pulled up too) told Zimmerman not to handle the problem.

He wasn't "told" to do anything.
He received no "order", and was under no obligation even if he had.
All that was made was a "suggestion".

Lee, the police chief, said in a statement that the police dispatcher's "suggestion" to Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin "is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmermann would be required to follow."

"Mr. Zimmerman's statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon," Lee said.
'Stand Your Ground Law' at center of Fla. shooting - Yahoo! News

 

[ARealConservative]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Does anybody actually know what time the incident occurred?

I believe it was around 7 pm

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Actually, both co-sponsors said this:Author of "stand your ground" law: George Zimmerman should probably be arrested for killing Trayvon Martin - Crimesider - CBS News

You realize that their opinion doesn't matter, right?

And from what I can tell they do not have enough information about what occurred to even offer an opinion on the subject.
It is nothing more than political grandstanding.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I believe it was around 7 pm

Thank you, for the reply.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I have no idea how anybody is hearing "punks". I listened for "punks" as well, but nothing in there even comes close to it. The words are completely different.

They would sound completely different with clear audio and without the power of suggestion. IIRC I was the first on this string to point out the "coons" and suggest it implied racism in the crime, so I think you're going to have to accept that people are hearing different things because it's poor audio.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

They would sound completely different with clear audio and without the power of suggestion. IIRC I was the first on this string to point out the "coons" and suggest it implied racism in the crime, so I think you're going to have to accept that people are hearing different things because it's poor audio.

I accept that people are hearing different things. I just think the people hearing "punks" have hearing problems. My ears work and the video I posted had 4-5 different versions of the audio and it's pretty damn clear that a hard "c" is at the beginning followed by the "oo" sound followed by an "n" and an "s". That's just the reality. If you aren't even hearing the "oo" sound, then I think you have an ear problem quite frankly.

 

[Erod]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Damn white people.


George Zimmerman

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yeah, not a really good site to post.
Did you bother to look at the information provided and it's source?
I ask because people tend to over-look the information when they don't like the site.

Here is what was linked to from it's source.

There is actual video at the above link.

That means there are TWO eye witnesses. BOTH say Zimmerman was on the ground. Martin on top. This one specifies that it was Zimmerman that was yelling for help and that Martin was beating him up.

It was also stated by his mother that Martin didn't know anyone in the complex, suggesting he lived elsewhere, for which as neighborhood watch Zimmerman believed he didn't live here. If, as Zimmerman said in the 911 call, Martin first glaringly came towards Zimmerman, until seeing Zimmerman on the phone and then Martin turned and ran around a corner, is "suspicious" to some degree and it not all that unreasonable for Zimmerman to want to know where he went for when the police arrived.

With TWO eye witnesses saying Zimmerman was on the ground getting beat up by Martin and Zimmerman was yelling for help, if the single shot fired was at VERY close range, this seems an impossible case for prosecution to win. No one has to just let him/herself be beaten to death or to increasing serious and possibly permanent injury.
The
claim that because a neighborhood watch association person was following Martin somehow justifies Martin beating the hell (or life) out of Zimmerman in a fury over being followed really is an extreme view of the right to assault someone. Under that theory, anyone could beat up or to death any parking lot beggar following them in the parking lot - which around here is common at dirt - as is people pulling up and getting out of cars coming over begging for money claiming it for gasoline or diapers or whatever.
If someone is following you, you can't just beat up the person. That seems what over half the people on this forum are claiming. That they believe they have the right to beat up anyone who is annoying or harassing them.
There are NO witnesses that Zimmerman ran Martin down, blocked Martin, or was doing anything other than trying to continue to see where Martin was going. According to his girlfriend it was Martin who initiated face to face communications, not Zimmerman.

As unfortunate, stupid this all happened or how creepy you think the Latino watchman is, at this point there is no legitimate prosecution as it is known the prosecution cannot prove its case "beyond a reasonable doubt and to the exclusion of all other possibilities." Even if Zimmerman was wearing a KKK costume, that still did not justify violently assaulting Zimmerman and continuing to do so as Zimmerman screamed for help.
Martin was not a child. He was a 17 year old football player and Zimmerman was an overweight marshmellow. To keep claiming this was a tough man going at a "child" is also just an inaccuracy oft repeated.

(However, I bet the company that makes Skittles love the product-recognition. Maybe they should have a rep quietly hand out Skittles at the protests to try to make a bag of Skittles a sign of African-Americanand civil rights protest and defiance.)

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Does anybody actually know what time the incident occurred?

I now have read it was about 7 pm.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

He definitely didn't say punks.

I heard either "cones" or "coons", couldn't say which for sure. Either he tripped on an orange warning cone or he's a racist following a Black person.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Damn white people.

View attachment 67124671
George Zimmerman

I keep waiting for someone claiming that if the USA's Southern border had been secured long ago, this would never have happened - and how this sort of thing is what happens sooner or later when you let Latinos in.
Stormfront can claim this is another example of why racial segregation was a good thing and why White people, Black people, Brown people, and Red people should each be kept apart.

I see injection the race of both into this as what constitutes "racism" in an extremely negative sense. When all else fails, cry racist. I think it is racists him/herself who are the ones who see everyone and everything by people's race.

 

[Erod]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I keep waiting for someone claiming that if the USA's Southern border had been secured long ago, this would never have happened - and how this sort of thing is what happens sooner or later when you let Latinos in.
Stormfront can claim this is another example of why racial segregation was a good thing and why White people, Black people, Brown people, and Red people should each be kept apart.

I see injection the race of both into this as what constitutes "racism" in an extremely negative sense. When all else fails, cry racist. I think it is racists him/herself who are the ones who see everyone and everything by people's race.

Think Rodney King for a second, and the aftermath in the streets following the verdict.

If this guy gets off as the LAPD did, what will happen, particularly since Obama, Farrakhan, and Sharpton have weighed in so early with so little information to go on?

Hopefully nothing, but there's perhaps more tension between the black and Hispanic communities than between any other groups.

It is incredibly irresponsible and unpresedential for Obama to comment on this with no facts whatsoever.

 

[Erod]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Imagine George Bush speaking out after a white kid was killed by a Hispanic or black kid.

"If I had a son, he'd look like him."

Can you imagine the media response to that?

Hypocrisy reigns supreme.

 

[rocket88]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Imagine George Bush speaking out after a white kid was killed by a Hispanic or black kid.

"If I had a son, he'd look like him."

Can you imagine the media response to that?

Hypocrisy reigns supreme.

I imagine the media would have a field day and you'd be jumping up and down screaming a full throated defense of Bush.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

detaining a person is an act of aggression, tailing him is not.

An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.