Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

LOL...asking someone questions doesn't justify assault. What if the guy had been asking directions and Martin took a swing at him?

Can you possibly see how you're argument doesn't hold water?

It depends on how those questions are asked. They can be inquisitive or they can be intimidating/threatening.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

And those reasons would be, what?

you tell us, Bub.

what are your reasons for assuming that Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman, unjustifiably?

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

LOL...asking someone questions doesn't justify assault....

if you are followed in a car, followed on foot, and then the guy comes up to your face, I give you permission to wack him.

 

[Higgins86]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

LOL...asking someone questions doesn't justify assault. What if the guy had been asking directions and Martin took a swing at him?

Can you possibly see how you're argument doesn't hold water?

and how can you possible know that zimmerman just asked quetions and wasn't in fact threatening the kid or at least making him feel threatened? Just so im clear are we defending Zimmerman because he was trying to be " the good American" carrying around his gun stalking the area like Texas Ranger and the kid well I mean he was black and he did have his hood up so...is that where we stand right now because thats what it feels like right now?

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

if you follow me, in the middle of the night, first in your car and then on foot, I'm gonna stand my ground.

and that means that if you approach me in any way, fist will be hitting cartilage.

...hypothetically, of course.

Like beating up panhandlers in parking lots, do ya?

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

and how can you possible know that zimmerman just asked quetions and wasn't in fact threatening the kid or at least making him feel threatened? Just so im clear are we defending Zimmerman because he was trying to be " the good American" carrying around his gun stalking the area like Texas Ranger and the kid well I mean he was black and he did have his hood up so...is that where we stand right now because thats what it feels like right now?

apparently, black kids wearing a hood, in the middle of the night, aren't allowed to stand their ground. They're just supposed to do what they're told and be a good boy.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Like beating up panhandlers in parking lots, do ya?

you're clearly losing the argument, pal.

 

[apdst]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

you tell us, Bub.

what are your reasons for assuming that Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman, unjustifiably?

Because, obviously, Zimmerman didn't present a threat. Following someone isn't a threatening action.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

and how can you possible know that zimmerman just asked quetions and wasn't in fact threatening the kid or at least making him feel threatened? Just so im clear are we defending Zimmerman because he was trying to be " the good American" carrying around his gun stalking the area like Texas Ranger and the kid well I mean he was black and he did have his hood up so...is that where we stand right now because thats what it feels like right now?

Only racists in their hearts keep pointing to Martin's race, while slamming the Latino.
In his own way, I think Zimmerman was trying to be a good neighbor. And sure, you hate guns, but I see no problem with him carrying one. Unlike most people, he even had gone thru the steps to do so legally. Nor in the phone call immediately before all hell broke loose, did Martin mention Zimmerman having a gun, meaning he wasn't flashing it around, and since Zimmerman was knocked/slugged down, he still hadn't shown it.

MAYBE the problem is Zimmerman SHOULD have taken out his gun when Martin angrily came back at him. Maybe THAT would have prevented this.

Some people DO believe that "conceal carry" should be replaced with "open carry" so there are no guns that surprise come into situations. Curiously, legally Zimmerman COULD have been walking around openly with a shotgun. Sure, that'd drive YOU crazy, but I bet this wouldn't have gone down this way if he had been.

Anti-gun people argue that people should lock themselves up behind barred windows and steel doors, like scared mice and totally apathetic towards others, that nobody looks out for anyone else and just in their self imposed prisons only look out for themselves. Rather only the police are called after-the-fact to take a report about the burglary, assault, rape or murder and - who knows - someday they might even catch the criminal. Doesn't do jacks...t for the victim either way, though.

Neighborhood Crime Watch are busybodies. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. They GO UP TO PEOPLE asking "do you live around here?" and "what are you doing out here by my neighbor's house as 2 am?" Some of the more unpleasant ones will call code enforcement if your grass is too long or put out your trash too early or call animal control if your dog is out loose too.

Some of those folks are annoying, but I think they do more good than the annoyances of it. You obviously disagee. But what I am certain of is what they are doing is legal.

"I was yelling for someone to help me. Nobody would help me," said George Zimmerman when the police arrived. Nobody helping anyone probably is your perfect world.

 

[apdst]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

if you are followed in a car, followed on foot, and then the guy comes up to your face, I give you permission to wack him.

Oh yeah, I would love to see that hold up in court. :lamo

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Only racists in their hearts keep point to Martin's race.

In his own way, I think Zimmerman was trying to be a good neighbor....

no, he was over-compensating for his cowardice, his rejection by the police department, his restraining order, being arrested for battery against a LEO, and whatever personal issues he clearly had.

this guy only cared about himself and his own pathetic needs.

 

[apdst]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

and how can you possible know that zimmerman just asked quetions and wasn't in fact threatening the kid or at least making him feel threatened? Just so im clear are we defending Zimmerman because he was trying to be " the good American" carrying around his gun stalking the area like Texas Ranger and...

1) I don't and neither do you. You're starting to get the picture.

2) "feeling" threatened isn't grounds for self defense.

the kid well I mean he was black and he did have his hood up so...is that where we stand right now because thats what it feels like right now?

You et. al. are the only ones that remind us that Martin was black. Maybe you should look in the mirror. Personally, I think the only reason your panties are in a twist, is because Martin was black. Had he been white, you wouldn't even give a ****.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

A citizen doesn't have the right to assault a stalker. You know that better than I do.

right...to...assault...a stalker. No...no one has a right to 'assault' anyone. is it REASONABLE that any citizen would CONFRONT a 'stalker'? Absolutely. Assault. No...no 'right'. But confront someone that was 'stalking' them? Would that be a normal response? Sure. You bet. Not just from an adrenalyzed 17 year old but from...well...you. Me. Pretty much anyone.

Forget about all other aspects of this situation. Forget about the allegation of the racial slur. Forget about past records. Forget about the fact that the kid was guilty of nothing more than walking down a street...HIS street. An overzealous 'neighborhood watchman' was TOLD by police dispatch...stop following the guy. Why? Well...probably...because **** like this happens. So...why did the ADULT and by his own account 'responsible agent' disobey the police and keep 'stalking' someone even after he had been told not to? There is NO WAY around the fact that Zimmerman is responsible for the altercation and ultimately the death of a 17 year old kid.

I have been carrying concealed for just over 30 years and in several states. In EVERY state...in every class I have ever taken...one of the things STRESSED to me is that making the decision to carry a firearm means you accept and own the responsibility for that choice. You go OUT OF YOUR WAY to avoid confrontation. The weapon is a means of self defense...last resort. By EVERY account, Zimmerman sought out the conflict. He MUST be held responsible for the conflict, confrontation, and ultimately, the loss of life.

 

[apdst]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

It depends on how those questions are asked. They can be inquisitive or they can be intimidating/threatening.

Stop trying to push people's buttons. I know you don't really believe that.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

...You et. al. are the only ones that remind us that Martin was black. Maybe you should look in the mirror. Personally, I think the only reason your panties are in a twist, is because Martin was black. Had he been white, you wouldn't even give a ****.

Personally, I think the only reason YOU are against Martin, is because he was a black kid wearing a hoody.

 

[Higgins86]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

1) I don't and neither do you. You're starting to get the picture.

2) "feeling" threatened isn't grounds for self defense.



You et. al. are the only ones that remind us that Martin was black. Maybe you should look in the mirror. Personally, I think the only reason your panties are in a twist, is because Martin was black. Had he been white, you wouldn't even give a ****.

lol if he was white we wouldnt be talking about this right now

 

[hazlnut]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

and how can you possible know that zimmerman just asked quetions and wasn't in fact threatening the kid or at least making him feel threatened?

He was TOLD by police to NOT get out of his car and chase the kid. On the tape we hear Zimmerman panting as he chases after the kid. Then Zimmerman says 'f-ing coon'.

All a security officer can do is observe and report. He chased the boy with malice and intent to stop him--as he stated 'they always get away.' He murdered a 17-year-old boy--IMO--and should be put in jail.

There has been some debate about who was calling for help. I would lean toward the one w/o gun.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You keep going back to this idea that persistently following someone around isn't "threatening" behavior.

You can knock off the hyperbole. There wasn't "persistently" anything. The incident happened over the matter of a few minutes.

Of course I do because it isn't a threatening action in and of itself.
And how another interprets the action does not determine if it was actually threatening or not, only if it was threatening to them.
What matters here is the intent of the person performing the action, Zimmerman.

Just as Trayvons interpretation of events would go to the intent of his attack on Zimmerman.

But the action action, in and of itself, is not a threatening action.

So tonight I want you to pick a random woman off the street and follow her in your car.

I don't drive. I am a disabled Vet.

So tonight I want you to pick a random woman off the street and follow her in your car.

Then, when she becomes aware of you and turns off the street I want you to get out and follow her on foot.

Then, when she calls the police and they come, I want you to tell them she had no rwason to feel threatened, as you were just "observing" her. See how well that works out for you.

That is twisting the actual circumstances to fit your narrative and has absolutely nothing to do with what happened.
Now if it went down the way the current situation in the beginning happened, where I had been in contact with 911 first about this lady.
The police would most likely put both of our apprehensions at rest because no one was doing anything wrong.

Trying to claim that some big fat guy following you in his car and then getting out and chasing you (which is what "following" looks like to the one being followed) is not "threatening" is silly.

"Threatened" is a purely subjective thing.

That's right.
I have no doubt that Trayvon felt threatened, and maybe even afraid. But not enough not to confront the guy.

How Trayvon felt is not dispositive, on whether or not Zimmerman's actions were criminal.
The intent of Zimmerman's actions are, not Trayvon's feelings.

Trayvon's feelings and his intent goes to his actions and determines whether they were criminal or not.

It is entirely possible that Martin chose that particular time and place to suddenly "go gangsta".

Its not anywhere near as likely as that Zimmerman went too far in his zeal to make a "bust", put his hands on someone who was already frightened, got knocked to the ground and then killed Martin in anger or fear.

There is no evidence to engage in such speculation.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

As I understand it, he was acting as a neighborhood watchman...not Joe Citizen. Joe Citizen can be armed...neighborhood watchmen arent supposed to be armed. He had done his 'job'. He was told by the police to NOT follow him. He incited the incident.

Please get your facts straight. He was not "told" by the police not to follow him.
Keeping someone under observation until police arrived is not inciting anything.
And he did stop following him.
As he was on his way back to his truck he was attacked by Trayvon.

Flip the script a little bit. If it was YOUR kid being tracked by a wannabe cop...a guy that had been TOLD by the dispatcher to stop following him...a guy that pressed the issue...even if your kid made a bad choice by confronting the total stranger that had been harassing him...wouldnt you be pissed? We may not know EXACTLY what happened but we know what we know. A good kid was minding his own business and was harassed and eventually killed by someone who was doing everything wrong.

Your narrative is off.

Besides, there is no reason to "flip the script".
Feelings are not at issue here.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I have no doubt that Trayvon felt threatened, and maybe even afraid. But not enough not to confront the guy.....

mind reader?

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You have ONE statement that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

From Zimmerman.

That is right. That's what I've been saying.

We also have two statements that confirm it was Trayvon who confronted Zimmerman first.
Zimmerman's and the girlfriends.

Like I have been saying, Zimmerman's statement is consistent with the known evidence.

You are positing that anyone found standing over a body with a gun can simply state that they were attacked and that's good enough.

That is not what I am saying.
What I am saying is that the evidence fits Zimmerman's statement and is therefore believable.

You are ACCEPTING the word of someone with every reason to lie.
...
But it is entirely possible he is, and simply taking his word for it just isn't reasonable.

That is a bs argument and has no basis other than bias.
The evidence fits Zimmerman's statement.

 

[Higgins86]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Please get your facts straight. He was not "told" by the police not to follow him.
Keeping someone under observation until police arrived is not inciting anything.
And he did stop following him.
As he was on his way back to his truck he was attacked by Trayvon.


Your narrative is off.

Besides, there is no reason to "flip the script".
Feelings are not at issue here.

injured vet...im guessing a head injury then based on this utter rubbish your posting.

 

[apdst]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

lol if he was white we wouldnt be talking about this right now

Of course we wouldn't. Glad you've figgered that part out, at least. :lamo

 

[Higgins86]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Of course we wouldn't. Glad you've figgered that part out, at least. :lamo

sorry you probably misunderstood, we wouldnt be talking about this because Zimmerman would of been arrested at the scene and it would of been local news worthy only.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Oh, BTW "George" in the Latino community is a two syllable word with H sounds, for you who so enjoying slamming him because you like the race of the other guy better.