Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Im sorry...did you LISTEN to the transcript? He was told very directly and in fact the dispatcher made a very clear point of it.

You are trying to spin things to fit an unfounded narrative. You are wrong.

I have read this thread from beginning to end and those that are all for convicting Zimmerman have a totally biased way of looking at the facts and twisting them to fit their preconceived narrative.

For instance; Zimmerman was told by police not not follow the individual.
That never happened. A 911 operator told Zimmerman that "they" didn't need him to follow
the individual. That is not an 'order'. That is not 'telling' him to do anything. All it is, is advice from an operator.
...
If people can not reiterate the facts without twisting them, their position is weak.

The actual audio and facts dont fit what you 'want' it to be. A 17 year old kid is dead for the crime of walking home in his own neighborhood following a trip to a convenience store. He was stalked and harassed by a neighborhood watchman for one reason...one reason alone.

Again with trying to spin the narrative and are mischaracterizing what actually took place.
You are wrong.
He was not stalked or harassed.
And the actual audio does fit Zimmerman's statement.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

yeah..so what?

Zimmerman started ****...and Martin finished it.

but then, Zimmerman just felt compelled to blow Martin away.

Or did Zimmerman finish it.

 

[hazlnut]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

A dispatcher is just a telephone receptionist, not "the police," nor told him to do or not do anything. I commonly ignore them, but that's somewhat a different matter.

When I dial 911 a cop answers the phone--it goes right to the front desk of our local PD which is staffed 24/7 by a police officer. Where I lived in CA, the 911 calls went straight to the front desk of the Sheriffs department. A L.A. Sheriff Deputy answered the phone and identified himself by name.

The Zimmerman 911 tape begins with: "Sanford Police Department..." He is speaking to a police officer.

An emergency services dispatcher in a bigger city is an extension of the police department--trained to instruct callers on what the police/firefighters would have them do. "Stay where you are."--is the most important instruction, because responding officers are given the specific location of the caller and to leave that location might cause police to stop and question you, wasting time while you get out your ID and prove who you are.

911 operators in big cities have saved lives, calling them 'receptionist' is insulting--IMO.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Or did Zimmerman finish it.

no, it appears that young Martin kicked his ass.........and Zimmerman killed him out of anger.

 

[Tettsuo]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Again with trying to spin the narrative and are mischaracterizing what actually took place.
You are wrong.
He was not stalked or harassed.
And the actual audio does fit Zimmerman's statement.

... in the audio, Zimmerman said he was following Martin. Hence the dispatcher telling him not to.

 

[Samhain]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Glad to hear that not only is the investigation not over or closed, as some have suggested, but the prosecutor is forming a Grand Jury on April 10th. Hopefully it wont be sealed so we can all hear firsthand what the actual evidence in this case is.

 

[ARealConservative]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Im sorry...did you LISTEN to the transcript? He was told very directly and in fact the dispatcher made a very clear point of it. The actual audio and facts dont fit what you 'want' it to be. A 17 year old kid is dead for the crime of walking home in his own neighborhood following a trip to a convenience store. He was stalked and harassed by a neighborhood watchman for one reason...one reason alone.

Did you listen to it “we don’t need you to do that”. Yes, the point is clear, the dispatcher didn’t need Zimmerman to follow.

Also, this is not the 17 year old kids neighborhood, not that that has jack**** to do with the case.

 

[Tettsuo]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Or did Zimmerman finish it.

And he should be charged and awaiting trial for "finishing it".

 

[apdst]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

sorry, I meant to say "Hispanic is not a race. The man is white"

my bad.

OMG!!! You did it again!!! :lamo

 

[Tettsuo]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Also, this is not the 17 year old kids neighborhood, not that that has jack**** to do with the case.

Actually, that doesn't have anything to do with the case.

But, it is possible that Zimmerman called the police whenever he says an unfamiliar face. Which further fuels the idea that he was seriously overzealous.

 

[ric27]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

no, it appears that young Martin kicked his ass.........and Zimmerman killed him out of anger.

*it appears*....

Yup, don't confuse theory with facts

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Oh no you didn't!!!!!! :lamo

OMG!!! You did it again!!! :lamo

you gonna keep on talking nonesense?

or are you gonna explain what your issue is.

 

[hazlnut]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

He was TOLD by police to NOT get out of his car and chase the kid.

No he wasn't.

At about the 2:10 Mark WE CAN HEAR THE CAR OPEN AND THEN THE WIND AS ZIMMERMAN STARTS TO MOVE ON FOOT.

At 2:22 he say "F-ing coons" and then the POLICER OFFICER tells him "We don't' need you to [go after him]."

THE WING CONTINUES TO BLOW AFTER THIS, and ZIMMERMAN IS PANTING, meaning he ignores the police.








You should really get better informed about this case before posting in this thread.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You are trying to spin things to fit an unfounded narrative. You are wrong.
Again with trying to spin the narrative and are mischaracterizing what actually took place.
You are wrong.
He was not stalked or harassed.
And the actual audio does fit Zimmerman's statement.

Riiiiight. I think you are the one mis-characterizing the situation. The narrative is pretty clear. Im not sure what others see in this case. I see an overzealous neighborhood watchman, carrying a weapon in a situation he shouldnt have been, following a kid he had no business following after being told by a real officer not to, for suspicious behavior that didnt exist. The 17 year old kid very likely overreacted to being stalked and harassed by the overzealous neighborhood watchman. Regardless...the responsibile agent is still the overzealous neighborhood watchman who was carrying a weapon in a situation he shouldnt have been, following a kid he had no business following after being told by a real officer not to, for suspicious behavior that didnt exist.

 

[ARealConservative]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Actually, that doesn't have anything to do with the case.

But, it is possible that Zimmerman called the police whenever he says an unfamiliar face. Which further fuels the idea that he was seriously overzealous.

that is what I said

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Regardless of the police dispatcher's level of authority, they were correct. Zimmerman should have stayed away. If he'd listen, an innocent 17 year old would be alive today.

There is no proof that, in the end, he was innocent at all.

If...
There are LOTS of "if"s, aren't there?
It is accurate that both Zimmerman and Martin both acted well beyond their abilities for the potentials that could develop - and did.

For example, most people in urban areas get approached by annoying, crazy people in parking lots all the time. Only a fool will "stand his ground" to argue with the person or get in a fight with the crazy person. And beating up a crazy person following you really isn't legal.

A woman I know (and "trained) who is somewhat physically handicapped so limited in self defense ability unarmed nor can flee - if alone or only with children - for any man approaching her in a way that is directly towards her only to be heading towards her, that she doesn't know and IF she feel uncomfortable towards his approach in a sense of potential danger, will at 20 feet say loudly, "no! stay away from me!" If he still approaches she immediate shouts it. At her discretion of the situation, before 10 feet she had drawn down on him shouting "I will shoot to stop you if you do not stop!"

They stop.

Probably all were just pushy beggars. Never know for sure. Only know that no one got hurt.

Extreme? Maybe. But legal. Around here anyway for her unique situation. But it wouldn't be legal for me in private capacity to do so because in nearly all situations that would not be reasonably necessary to hold off what appears a potential unarmed assailant. For her it is about the only way she could. Much of this is very relative.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmerman was not the attacker, Trayvon was.



All the above you cited is consistent with what Zimmerman has stated.



Your narrative is off and it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it out to be.

What do you mean "a weapon he was not supposed to be carrying"?

The only evidence you have that Martin was the attacker is Zimmermsns statement.

NO OTHER evidence establishes who started the altercation.

You are accepting Zims word on the subject.

You know, the guy who's facing a murder rap if its not self defense.

Can't say for sure he lied.

You're saying for sure he didn't.

The guy with the smoking gun is ALWAYS suspect. How many movies do you think Zims seen where someone injures themselves to lend credibility to their story?

Evidently an actual.investigation is being done.

Suits me.

 

[mogur15]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I have to agree that the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman is definitely up to the courts to decide. Anyone claiming that that judgement is now perfectly clear can only be relying on hearsay, which is not generally allowed in a court of law. Zimmerman may or may not have uttered a racial slur on the 911 recordings, depending on who you listen to. He was either a self proclaimed or an official neighborhood watch captain. He aggressively attacked Martin, was attacked by Martin, or he was jumped from behind. None of this hearsay info is valid in professing knowledge about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

The only established facts are that the police department did not do its job. They ran a toxic screen on Martin, yet failed to do the same on Zimmerman. They presumably did an autopsy on Martin, yet failed to require a medical examination of Zimmerman (to establish the extent of injuries that he may or may not have sustained). The window of opportunity to collect crucial evidence and even possibly extensive interrogation of the shooter is now forever closed due to their lack of a proper investigation. A bloody nose, grass stains on Zimmerman's shirt, and initial lack of contradictory witnesses to his version of the facts do not provide any justification for abruptly ending the investigation at that point and releasing the shooter on the spot.

Their claim that the new Florida 'stand your ground' law precludes an arrest without direct evidence is not grounds for ignoring crucial transitory evidence from the shooter. Sure the Sanford police department is not CSI Miami, but COME ON, with their history of previous accusations of racial bias, they should have at least tried to protect their own appearance of impartiality with at least some effort at thoroughness.

 

[hazlnut]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

no, it appears that young Martin kicked his ass.........and Zimmerman killed him out of anger.

Exactly.

Actually, it appears that Martin knocked a man to the ground who was chasing him with a gun. Then, as he was calling for help, Zimmerman shot Martin to shut him up.

The teenage boy walking his dog remembers the screams for 'help' stopping right after the gunshot.

Although, Zimmerman has a pretty high voice, he could have sounded like an adolescent--but if Zimmerman had the gun, wouldn't he be screaming "back up" or "get away from me" while warding Martin off with the gun.

It's more logical that Martin knocked down an armed man chasing him at night and then called for help, afraid he would be shot. Which is exactly what happened. Zimmerman was sick of people 'getting away' and he hated the 'f-ing coons.'

The police chief just stepped down.

 

[Tettsuo]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

There is no proof that, in the end, he was innocent at all.

Martin committed no crime by walking to the store and back. This makes Martin innocent. Or are you going to prejudge him?

If...
There are LOTS of "if"s, aren't there?

No, not really.

It is accurate that both Zimmerman and Martin both acted well beyond their abilities for the potentials that could develop - and did.

No, we don't know that. The only facts we have is that Zimmerman followed Martin because he thought he was suspicious and Zimmerman is an overzealous self-appointed protector of the neighborhood. We know for a fact, that Martin was shot dead. We know Zimmerman chased after him without cause. We know at some point Zimmerman and Martin got into a tangle. The report stated that Zimmerman was bleeding from the head and nose, although we have no eye witness corraborate that information.

For example, most people in urban areas get approached by annoying, crazy people in parking lots all the time. Only a fool with "stand his ground" to argue with the person or get in a fight with the crazy person.

Are you making an assuming that Martin attacked Zimmerman? I think you are. All we know is Martin asked him why was he following him.

A woman I know (and "trained) who is somewhat physically handicapped so limited in self defense ability unarmed nor can flee - if alone or only with children - for any man approaching her in a way that is directly towards her only to be heading towards her, that she doesn't know and IF she feel uncomfortable towards his approach in a sense of potential danger, will at 20 feet say loudly, "no! stay away from me!" If he still approaches she immediate shouts it. At her discretion of the situation, before 10 feet she had drawn down on him shouting "I will shoot to stop you if you do not stop!"

They stop.

Extreme? Maybe. But legal. Around here anyway for her unique situation. But it wouldn't be legal for me in private capacity to do so because in nearly all situations that would not be reasonably necessary to hold off what appears a potential unarmed assailant. For her it is about the only way she could. Much of this is very relative.

Are you saying Zimmerman failed to alert Martin he was armed? If so, then we agree.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

How, what are you going to do? We have lots of old folks in neighborhood crime watch around here, moreso as burgaries and assaults go up likely due to collapsing economy and this largely a middle to upper middle class area in some parts.

OK, you;re walking down the street - wasn't this like 2 am or something, I can't remember. You see a car slowly following along behind you. You see that, turn, walk towards the person in the car following you, see that person is talking on a cell phone. You then turn again and quickly run around behind one of his neighbor's houses.

He gets out and follows you. You stop, turn still again and say "why are you following me?!" He says, "What are you doing around here?!"

Now, what are you going to do? Run at him, slugging him in the face, knocking him down and maybe start kicking him as he screams "somebody help me!"

Is that what you mean by "defend yourself?"

Somehow, beating the hell out of that guy doesn't seem very legal for asking what you're doing poking around his neighbor's house at 2 am. And, somehow, I suspect if that old guy has a gun in his pocket he's going to shoot you in the chest to stop you kicking or punching him anymore.

What am I missing in your explanation of what you'd do? And how that is likely to end?

All.else adide where the **** is the kicking part in the evidence?

You say kicking in every single description.

Where is this kicking of which you speak?

If yer gonna chide folks for expanding on the evidence, please don't do so yourself.

 

[joko104]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Ok, first off he was told by a police dispatcher that his help was not needed. He was not ordered by a police officer.

Secondly, we don't know what kind of struggle happened. The police officer even stated that Zimmerman's back was wet indicating that his back was on the ground. We don't know who for sure started the scuffle.

Did Zimmerman put himself in a situation where the black kid could have assaulted him out of fear and then was shot? Yes.

Could Zimmerman have murdered the kid? Yes

Do we know for sure? No, and that is the fault of the police who didn't question Zimmerman.

So much for the 5th amendment.
But they did interview Zimmerman. So the summary condemnation of the police is just false.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

cite, please

Why are you asking me to cite information that has already been provided in the topic?
I ask because you have been a participant in this topic since post 94 and it seems that one should be at least aware of the information that has been previously provided and keeping one's self abreast of said information before beginning and continuing participation.
I am not one to tell anther to go and find it themselves, but I do wonder why a person bothers to participate if they are not going to at least inform their self of what has already been provided.
I am wrong for thinking such?

justabubba provided the information in post#125.

From the link provided in post#125

Recounting her conversation with Martin, the teen girl said, "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man."

"I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run," she said.

After a few minutes, the girl said, Martin thought he was safe. But eventually the man appeared again.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for?'" the girl said. "And the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the [phone’s\] headset just fell."

The line went dead, the girl said.

Read more: Trayvon Martin case: 16-year-old girl recalls last phone conversation minutes before Martin was shot dead: report* - NY Daily News

The part in red is where, and what, confirms that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman first and is consistent with Zimmerman's statement.

The part in blue I have seen reported and not reported elsewhere and have no idea or their significance or even if they are her own words as they are not quoted. But I do not recall hearing them when I listened to the audio of her statement.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Only racists in their hearts keep pointing to Martin's race, while slamming the Latino.
In his own way, I think Zimmerman was trying to be a good neighbor. And sure, you hate guns, but I see no problem with him carrying one. Unlike most people, he even had gone thru the steps to do so legally. Nor in the phone call immediately before all hell broke loose, did Martin mention Zimmerman having a gun, meaning he wasn't flashing it around, and since Zimmerman was knocked/slugged down, he still hadn't shown it.

MAYBE the problem is Zimmerman SHOULD have taken out his gun when Martin angrily came back at him. Maybe THAT would have prevented this.

Some people DO believe that "conceal carry" should be replaced with "open carry" so there are no guns that surprise come into situations. Curiously, legally Zimmerman COULD have been walking around openly with a shotgun. Sure, that'd drive YOU crazy, but I bet this wouldn't have gone down this way if he had been.

Anti-gun people argue that people should lock themselves up behind barred windows and steel doors, like scared mice and totally apathetic towards others, that nobody looks out for anyone else and just in their self imposed prisons only look out for themselves. Rather only the police are called after-the-fact to take a report about the burglary, assault, rape or murder and - who knows - someday they might even catch the criminal. Doesn't do jacks...t for the victim either way, though.

Neighborhood Crime Watch are busybodies. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. They GO UP TO PEOPLE asking "do you live around here?" and "what are you doing out here by my neighbor's house as 2 am?" Some of the more unpleasant ones will call code enforcement if your grass is too long or put out your trash too early or call animal control if your dog is out loose too.

Some of those folks are annoying, but I think they do more good than the annoyances of it. You obviously disagee. But what I am certain of is what they are doing is legal.

"I was yelling for someone to help me. Nobody would help me," said George Zimmerman when the police arrived. Nobody helping anyone probably is your perfect world.

Zimmerman put his hands on a.cop.

That's what battery means.

He has demonstrated self control issues.

So your presumption that he was.comporting himself calmly and professionally is NOT supported by the available evidence.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Exactly.

Actually, it appears that Martin knocked a man to the ground who was chasing him with a gun. Then, as he was calling for help, Zimmerman shot Martin to shut him up.

The teenage boy walking his dog remembers the screams for 'help' stopping right after the gunshot.

Although, Zimmerman has a pretty high voice, he could have sounded like an adolescent--but if Zimmerman had the gun, wouldn't he be screaming "back up" or "get away from me" while warding Martin off with the gun.

It's more logical that Martin knocked down an armed man chasing him at night and then called for help, afraid he would be shot. Which is exactly what happened. Zimmerman was sick of people 'getting away' and he hated the 'f-ing coons.'

The police chief just stepped down.

Unless Zimmerman fesses up to something I doubt we will ever know...nor do we really have to. It is enough to know who is responsible for the altercation...and at every step of the way, it is the overzealous neighborhood watchman carrying a firearm following a kid for nothing more than walking.