Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by
You said the above in reply to joko104.
It does not matter what the "people" want if his actions do not raise to the level of criminality.
He shouldn't be charged and tried unless they do.
When there is no act by the individual that raises to the level of criminality, then yeah.
Characterizing someone who leaves their truck to keep someone under observation as "pursue someone who is fleeing" doesn't change it to a criminal matter.
Your narrative is off and your talking about actual facts. lol
The 911 operator did not tell him not to follow him. The operator only suggested that they didn't need him to do that.
That is not really true.
We have heard the 911 calls and then read the follow up statements.
That is the evidence.
Now there might be more evidence that we do not know of, but as it stands Zimmerman's statement of what happened is consistent with the known evidence.
While lots of evidence shows what lead to it all, THE evidence that matters is quite obvious:
1. The ONLY eye witness, and African-American teenage boy out with his dog, says that he saw a "fight," Zimmerman was on the ground, and someone was shouting for help.
2. The police arriving on the scene said Zimmerman had a bloody nose, blood on the back of his head, a wet back and grass on his back.
3. In the phone call recounted by Martin's girlfriend, Martin made no reference to a gun.
4. She said she heard Martin first say "why are you following me?" and Zimmerman then saying "what are you doing here?" Apparently his earphone piece came off, indicating the matter became a violent physical assault at that point - for which we can only speculate who threw the first blow or even if both were fighting - as opposed to one fighting and the other trying to shield himself.
5. THE MOST CRITICAL is still not forensically known, if it can be. Who was calling for help? Immediately upon police arriving, Zimmerman told the police (in the report) that he was yelling for help but no one would help him. However, Martin's mother says it was Martin. Hopefully, a voice print can be made. It sounds like an older voice to me, but that is too subjective.
The ONLY time this became "criminal" is when it became violent. Whoever threw the first blow committed a criminal offense was in engaging in a criminal assault - invoking rather strong defensive-force rights in Florida.
Who was screaming for help would STRONGLY indicate who was under attack and being assaulted the few seconds before the shot fired.
There are times where it actually is legal to beat the crap out of someone, but there also is a point where you have to stop and there is a point where beating or kicking someone you already got down becomes a lethal assault even if you are not armed. Even if you throw the first blow and even if legally so, that does not give you the right to just continue to beat the guy to death or continue in a way to make it more greatly injurious.
6. Anyone with any experience in fighting or martial arts does understand if there is a fight, one on the ground and the other on top, if a gun enters that picture that gun belongs to whoever best can get control of it. That is the other forensic evidence we don't know. The distance of the shot.
IF it was within inches or a couple of feet, this had become a struggle over the gun - and whoever started and continued the physical fight itself at fault. If the range was 8 or 10 feet, then it was Zimmerman gunning Martin down for having beat him up, which he could not legally do.
Zimmerman didn't have to allow Martin to continue to beat him up or kick him - if that is what was happening - nor allow Martin to take and kill him with his own gun, which he legally had and apparently not displayed prior to Martin. Thus, "self defense." But if this was Zimmerman shooting Martin after Martin had stopped hitting/kicking Zimmerman - then it was either manslaughter or 2nd degree.
The forensics matters greatly and decisively - and we don't have that information yet. They MAY be able to do a voice print on yelling for help. They WILL be able to determine (or have determined as a reason they did not file charges) the distance of the shoot within the apparent range by the powder spread.
Being a criminal case, what most likely happened proves nothing and psychological analysis of both of them to then guesstimate what each did is equally worthless.
As a comment:
In terms of minority status, in central Florida being Latino is as much a minority facing bigotries as is an African-American. Bigots around here particularly don't like both. They'd call Martin a "n....r" and Zimmerman a "Mexican" or "wetback."
