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Elizabeth Warren: proving progressive ideals are for the weak minded.

There is nothing to address. There a laws on the books and they should be enforced. Trying to get votes by pandering to peasants who couldn't care less about this country should be rejected.

Not sure what you are referring to when you write "this stems back over two years ago". If you're referring to the invasion of illegal aliens the country is enduring, of course the Progressive forces saw it coming. I seems rather clear they planned it.

Wonder why they didn't mention anything about it, given they were advertising for contractors to support it long before it became news in May?

The people now know why. The fall out won't be pretty, depending on one's perspective.

I suppose, if only you discount that Republicans in Congress won't truly address immigration reform. President Obama doesn't write laws for Congress, despite what you may believe. This stems back over 2 years ago, so yes, people saw this coming. It didn't just pop up all of the sudden, contrary to your intake of mainstream media.

I'm just curious, and I selected you two because you seem on opposite sides of the coin here on the topic, but anyone can feel free to comment on it:

Why is this an either/or sort of thing? Why can't we have our cake and eat it to when it comes to the issue. Secure the border by putting the National Guard on it, and Pass the Dream Act. Both sides get what they want don't they?
 
As to what Republicans have recently DONE for me. Rejecting Immigration Reform is a good place to start, and stopping the damaging Progressive Agenda as best they can is another

The "Party of No!" out in full force. Seriously, besides no, what is that you want? You reject everything from every angle proffered to you, and then blame it on Obama. You've gotten legs from some on this border issue and you republicans are running a marathon. Truth be told, I think you have no leg to stand on. President Obama has put forth a plan that falls in line with what you have asked for, you reject it, and when says he'll take executive action, you call him a dictator and threaten to sue him. Yet you sit here and blame him for doing nothing because all republicans "need to do is point to the current law the President and his minions refuse to enforce" and you expect me to buy the crap coming out your hole?

So, I'll ask again... what have the Republicans actually DONE for you lately, except scream and shout, jump up and down, only to sit on their thumbs?
 
The "Party of No!" out in full force. Seriously, besides no, what is that you want? You reject everything from every angle proffered to you, and then blame it on Obama. You've gotten legs from some on this border issue and you republicans are running a marathon. Truth be told, I think you have no leg to stand on. President Obama has put forth a plan that falls in line with what you have asked for, you reject it, and when says he'll take executive action, you call him a dictator and threaten to sue him. Yet you sit here and blame him for doing nothing because all republicans "need to do is point to the current law the President and his minions refuse to enforce" and you expect me to buy the crap coming out your hole?

So, I'll ask again... what have the Republicans actually DONE for you lately, except scream and shout, jump up and down, only to sit on their thumbs?

This is where the party divide generally is. Liberals/Democrats ask what the government can do for us, where as the Conservatives/Republicans ask what can we do for us.... except when it comes to moral issues of course.
 
I'm just curious, and I selected you two because you seem on opposite sides of the coin here on the topic, but anyone can feel free to comment on it:

Why is this an either/or sort of thing? Why can't we have our cake and eat it to when it comes to the issue. Secure the border by putting the National Guard on it, and Pass the Dream Act. Both sides get what they want don't they?

The parents of those seeking advantage through the Dream Act knew what they were doing when they brought their children to this country illegally. They chose to place their children in jeopardy, knowing that there could be a time when their illegal occupation would be discovered. While it's a shame these people hoping for the Dream Act are in trouble, too bad. They should take it up with their parents who came here to exploit our country, rather than embrace the ideals others who came here legally fully understand.

As to the border, it will never be secure. The only rational approach to illegal immigration requires an E-Verify type program to protect prospective employers who can then demonstrate they employed due diligence in their employment practices. This would be followed by severe punishment, including forfeiture of personal assets from employers who knowingly hired illegals, and immediate detention and deportation for illegals found to be living in this country. A green card immigrant labor program, like we used before is reasonable. If an alien is caught overstaying their work visa, they would be deported and never allowed to enter the country again.

It's not all that difficult.
 
Suggesting the President and his Progressive minions merely enforce laws already on the books seems like a brilliant strategy. The people are seeing what happens when an Imperial Progressive Presidency rules by fiat. And they are pissed. Please keep with that plan, their is more air in the Progressive Balloon to leak out before it's just a flattened mess on the floor.

As to the President's plan, pandering to another group who will soon be ignored, just for votes is getting to be too obvious. As some residents in Chicago recently voiced "He's the worst President ever!"

As to what Republicans have recently DONE for me. Rejecting Immigration Reform is a good place to start, and stopping the damaging Progressive Agenda as best they can is another

Good morning, ocean515. :2wave:

The people of this country will usually give a lot of slack to someone who is trying, but it has been six years now, and things have slowly been getting worse. Sure, the stock market may be up, but that's just the big boys playing with money - it hasn't improved the lives of most people, many of whom are just barely getting by. When the residents of Chicago start joining the rest of the country in complaining, the handwriting is on the wall. :sinking:
 
The "Party of No!" out in full force. Seriously, besides no, what is that you want? You reject everything from every angle proffered to you, and then blame it on Obama. You've gotten legs from some on this border issue and you republicans are running a marathon. Truth be told, I think you have no leg to stand on. President Obama has put forth a plan that falls in line with what you have asked for, you reject it, and when says he'll take executive action, you call him a dictator and threaten to sue him. Yet you sit here and blame him for doing nothing because all republicans "need to do is point to the current law the President and his minions refuse to enforce" and you expect me to buy the crap coming out your hole?

So, I'll ask again... what have the Republicans actually DONE for you lately, except scream and shout, jump up and down, only to sit on their thumbs?

Coming out of my hole? LOL. Typical proglet comment. Well done. The stereotype receives affirmation once again.

Please. The Progressive Memes only get members of the religion excited.

You can ask all you want about what Republican have DONE for me lately, I've listed some. However, the blindness of your perspective is duly noted.

Enforce the laws on the books. Simple thing.
 
This is where the party divide generally is. Liberals/Democrats ask what the government can do for us, where as the Conservatives/Republicans ask what can we do for us.... except when it comes to moral issues of course.

Perhaps you misread what I wrote, and perhaps (from your previous comment to me) you don't understand what the DREAM Act entailed back in 2010, or up-to-date. Perhaps, you don't understand what the Senate passed last fall, only to be told by cry-baby Boehner that immigration reform will not be addressed or brought to a vote in the House this year (elections). Yet, Republicans point the finger at Obama for not solving things. The Republicans are trying to have their cake and eat it, too. And things just don't work like that
 
Perhaps you misread what I wrote, and perhaps (from your previous comment to me) you don't understand what the DREAM Act entailed back in 2010, or up-to-date. Perhaps, you don't understand what the Senate passed last fall, only to be told by cry-baby Boehner that immigration reform will not be addressed or brought to a vote in the House this year (elections). Yet, Republicans point the finger at Obama for not solving things. The Republicans are trying to have their cake and eat it, too. And things just don't work like that

:lamo
[h=2] Obama aides knew about issues on border a year before declaring a crisis [/h] Obama aides knew about issues on border a year before declaring a crisis "> David Nakamura, Jerry Markon and Manuel Roig-Franzia
The administration initially considered undocumented minors to be a “local problem.”
 
Good morning, ocean515. :2wave:

The people of this country will usually give a lot of slack to someone who is trying, but it has been six years now, and things have slowly been getting worse. Sure, the stock market may be up, but that's just the big boys playing with money - it hasn't improved the lives of most people, many of whom are just barely getting by. When the residents of Chicago start joining the rest of the country in complaining, the handwriting is on the wall. :sinking:

Good morning Pol :2wave:

This country wants and needs people who are hungry to use the opportunities it affords those willing to do the necessary things to improve their lives.

With interest rates almost meaningless, there is no wonder money is being placed in the stock market. Where else can some kind of return on investment be found?

It's amazing to me to witness the effort being put forth by the main stream media to hide the sentiment of people who will be further harmed by this illegal invasion. These illegals have had a devastating impact on the economic opportunities they so desperately need, and it's as if they current administration knows they have them in their pocket, so there is no longer a need to pander to them. I guess it's on to the next group to pander to for them.

Chicago does proves there is some hope the real truth is being realized.
 
What does voting for more employers and less employees mean? Instead of opposing mechanization, support it (fewer employees means higher wages and productivity gains will bring in more employers to compensate for the apparent loss in jobs). Mechanized workplaces lead to more employers and relatively fewer employees competing. Counter-intuitive, but employees win big. Instead of voting to shove more employees into your wage bracket, vote against minimum-wage (even if you make $100k per year, minimum wage domino effects your wage). Instead of allowing consolidation of industries, vote against it and tell your congresspeople to vote against it (this very moment, Comcast and Time-Warner are trying to merge in an already monopolistic market). Oppose it. Fewer employers is almost always bad for the employee (and the customer, but that's another topic).

Fact is as productivity has increased, wages have stagnated but profits have skyrocketed. So the world has operated differently than you suggest.

130305161550-chart-productivity-hourly-compensation-620xa.gif

And liberals oppose such mergers. It's the neoliberals and Chamber of Commerce types in both parties who have undermined anti-trust rules.

Liberals work against their own interest in almost every case. They oppose what they should support and support what they should oppose. They screw themselves (along with the rest of us) into low-wages, fewer employers and more employees within the same bracket. They support immigration, which brings more workers competing for the same jobs. They support unions which do nothing to fix the number of employers vs employees issue at the heart of wages and prosperity.

I'm not sure you understand what liberals are for and against. SOME liberals support 'immigration' but then so do nearly all pro-business conservatives. But many liberals also support closing the borders, and treating illegal EMPLOYERS with the same venom as the employees at the very bottom just trying to have a decent life.

And it's hard to square support of unions as working against the interests of working people. The alternative is every worker "negotiates" with a behemoth. In what world does a worker shocking shelves at Walmart exert influence on Walmart? They don't - it's a one way discussion. Work for this, under these conditions, or don't work. It's why Walmart would rather close a store than allow unions an entry - they know the effect is higher wages and benefits. And we can see the trajectory of wages as unions expanded power and as they declined and they're remarkably correlated. Fact is during the union heyday, as productivity increased, wages at ALL LEVELS increased. The poor got richer, AND the rich got richer, and that's as it should be. Now, productivity increases, income increases, wages for the middle and below decline, and profits skyrocket. That's not sustainable.

The problem with unions is now if they go against an employer that CAN just up and move to China, they just might cause that. But that's more a problem with trade rules than giving workers some power in the market.

The Cambridge professor likes Costco - good for her, but that doesn't fix the fundamental supply-demand, number of employers vs employees issue at the heart of you getting ahead.

Costco is just an example that employers competing in the market can compete at wages higher than minimum wage.

But the basic economics problem is pretty simple. Real sustainable demand can only come from wages. For decades, wages as a share of output have been declining, but profits are at an all time high, and then we wonder why demand is low, and sustainable growth is weak. So we have to get wages on a path upward, or our economy will continue to suffer. And no one can tell me that there is some ironclad economics rule that the 1%, and especially the 1/10th of 1%, must capture the current record and increasing share of income and wealth or else we can't have any jobs. And that's the implicit argument when people claim that if wages grow, and profits decline, that the result must be disastrous. Somehow we had a booming economy when the difference between the top and bottom was far lower than it is today.

Agree or not, Warren is recognizing that and proposing some not even half solutions - more than anything, she's just recognizing the issue and dealing with the worst of the fallout of that. What is the conservative answer? Give some more tax cuts probably, since that is their answer to every economic problem for all time. But that just doesn't seem to be working.

The reality is these are incredibly difficult and hard to solve problems, but I don't think we're going to get anywhere by demonizing those who like Warren just stand up and say, THIS is a real problem. Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty recognizes the problem. I'd just rather the conservatives debated the actual problem she's addressing instead of demonizing her for pointing to the problems.
 
Coming out of my hole? LOL. Typical proglet comment. Well done. The stereotype receives affirmation once again.

Please. The Progressive Memes only get members of the religion excited.

You can ask all you want about what Republican have DONE for me lately, I've listed some. However, the blindness of your perspective is duly noted.

Enforce the laws on the books. Simple thing.

No, you have not listed 1 thing Republicans have DONE for you. Obstruction, obscurity, criticism, and no plan doesn't count. Perhaps I missed it. Besides answering my comment by calling me a "proglet" could you address the fact that no matter what move President Obama makes, Republicans have been obstructive? List specifically, what Republicans have DONE for you?
 
No, you have not listed 1 thing Republicans have DONE for you. Obstruction, obscurity, criticism, and no plan doesn't count. Perhaps I missed it. Besides answering my comment by calling me a "proglet" could you address the fact that no matter what move President Obama makes, Republicans have been obstructive? List specifically, what Republicans have DONE for you?

They blocked Obama. :D
 
No, you have not listed 1 thing Republicans have DONE for you. Obstruction, obscurity, criticism, and no plan doesn't count. Perhaps I missed it. Besides answering my comment by calling me a "proglet" could you address the fact that no matter what move President Obama makes, Republicans have been obstructive? List specifically, what Republicans have DONE for you?

Perhaps the Repubs have "been obstructive" because they oppose what he wants to do? :peace
 
No, you have not listed 1 thing Republicans have DONE for you. Obstruction, obscurity, criticism, and no plan doesn't count. Perhaps I missed it. Besides answering my comment by calling me a "proglet" could you address the fact that no matter what move President Obama makes, Republicans have been obstructive? List specifically, what Republicans have DONE for you?

some of us see the government-as best-as a necessary evil-and prefer it stay out of our way and leave us alone. The GOP is less prone to want to take my wealth, rape my second amendment rights, jack up prices through Union coddling policies etc
 
They blocked Obama. :D

which of course is what they should do given that turd is an unmitigated disaster and a threat to our nation
 
No, you have not listed 1 thing Republicans have DONE for you. Obstruction, obscurity, criticism, and no plan doesn't count. Perhaps I missed it. Besides answering my comment by calling me a "proglet" could you address the fact that no matter what move President Obama makes, Republicans have been obstructive? List specifically, what Republicans have DONE for you?

What I have listed may not count to you. Who cares what you think. They count to me. Anything Republicans can do to stop the destructive economic agenda of Progressivism is good for me, and even more important good for the country.

Progressivism is a destructive religion based on rewarding failure and should be viewed as an anathema by those who understand what this Nation is all about.
 
Perhaps you misread what I wrote, and perhaps (from your previous comment to me) you don't understand what the DREAM Act entailed back in 2010, or up-to-date. Perhaps, you don't understand what the Senate passed last fall, only to be told by cry-baby Boehner that immigration reform will not be addressed or brought to a vote in the House this year (elections). Yet, Republicans point the finger at Obama for not solving things. The Republicans are trying to have their cake and eat it, too. And things just don't work like that

Actually, the Repubs rejected it because it didn't have the enforcement component. Plus, let's be honest and cut the political bs, both houses have passed bills but their DOA because neither wants to talk to another. If you got everything you wanted from the Dream Act:

Dream Act Summary said:
The DREAM Act would permit certain immigrant students who have grown up in the U.S. to apply for temporary legal status and to eventually obtain permanent legal status and become eligible for U.S. citizenship if they go to college or serve in the U.S. military; and would eliminate a federal provision that penalizes states that provide in-state tuition without regard to immigration status.

Would you then support some of the things that the reps want namely the things Ocean said:

The only rational approach to illegal immigration requires an E-Verify type program to protect prospective employers who can then demonstrate they employed due diligence in their employment practices. This would be followed by severe punishment, including forfeiture of personal assets from employers who knowingly hired illegals, and immediate detention and deportation for illegals found to be living in this country. A green card immigrant labor program, like we used before is reasonable. If an alien is caught overstaying their work visa, they would be deported and never allowed to enter the country again.

The parents of those seeking advantage through the Dream Act knew what they were doing when they brought their children to this country illegally. They chose to place their children in jeopardy, knowing that there could be a time when their illegal occupation would be discovered. While it's a shame these people hoping for the Dream Act are in trouble, too bad. They should take it up with their parents who came here to exploit our country, rather than embrace the ideals others who came here legally fully understand.

As to the border, it will never be secure. The only rational approach to illegal immigration requires an E-Verify type program to protect prospective employers who can then demonstrate they employed due diligence in their employment practices. This would be followed by severe punishment, including forfeiture of personal assets from employers who knowingly hired illegals, and immediate detention and deportation for illegals found to be living in this country. A green card immigrant labor program, like we used before is reasonable. If an alien is caught overstaying their work visa, they would be deported and never allowed to enter the country again.

It's not all that difficult.

If we're talking about the Dream Act, none of these kids that have come into the country over the past two years would of qualified anyways as you have to prove you've been here for at least five years.

That out of the way, I ask the same question to you, if you got what you wanted, would you give them what they wanted?
 
Perhaps the Repubs have "been obstructive" because they oppose what he wants to do? :peace

Please refer to comment #252. It doesn't matter if President Obama agrees to republican ideas, republicans will still block it. I think republicans have some serious issues that they're not willing to talk about, but no matter, it will not bode well for them in the long run. Being strictly obstructive is not a plan, it is just, well, obstructive.
 
Perhaps the Repubs have "been obstructive" because they oppose what he wants to do? :peace

No, they've "been obstructive" because their racist. Haven't you been listening?

sarcasm_font.jpg
 
Please refer to comment #252. It doesn't matter if President Obama agrees to republican ideas, republicans will still block it. I think republicans have some serious issues that they're not willing to talk about, but no matter, it will not bode well for them in the long run. Being strictly obstructive is not a plan, it is just, well, obstructive.

Road goes both ways though. Not like Obama has shown he wants to work with Reps. They have ideas on this, but their discounted as not real or w.e the excuse. Both sides just don't respect each other anymore... maybe even hate, you can't get things done like that.
 
Actually, the Repubs rejected it because it didn't have the enforcement component. Plus, let's be honest and cut the political bs, both houses have passed bills but their DOA because neither wants to talk to another. If you got everything you wanted from the Dream Act:



Would you then support some of the things that the reps want namely the things Ocean said:

The only rational approach to illegal immigration requires an E-Verify type program to protect prospective employers who can then demonstrate they employed due diligence in their employment practices. This would be followed by severe punishment, including forfeiture of personal assets from employers who knowingly hired illegals, and immediate detention and deportation for illegals found to be living in this country. A green card immigrant labor program, like we used before is reasonable. If an alien is caught overstaying their work visa, they would be deported and never allowed to enter the country again.



If we're talking about the Dream Act, none of these kids that have come into the country over the past two years would of qualified anyways as you have to prove you've been here for at least five years.

That out of the way, I ask the same question to you, if you got what you wanted, would you give them what they wanted?

If I got what I wanted? I want the laws already on the books enforced. Why should such a concept require acknowledgement that my "want" has been met, so I now must give something up?

The Dream Act was born of a farce. It is based on rewarding those who came here to exploit this country, and have no desire to operate any way differently in the future.
 
If I got what I wanted? I want the laws already on the books enforced. Why should such a concept require acknowledgement that my "want" has been met, so I now must give something up?

The Dream Act was born of a farce. It is based on rewarding those who came here to exploit this country, and have no desire to operate any way differently in the future.

So you think the Immigration system as is right now is great? Do you have any idea how many illegals are in the country right now, some of which were born and raised here. For example, you really want to deport people who have bled and died for this country. Those that are college educated? Forget all the fine print for the moment (and I grant you, that's where this law gets muddled), are those things really something you oppose?
 
Actually, the Repubs rejected it because it didn't have the enforcement component. Plus, let's be honest and cut the political bs, both houses have passed bills but their DOA because neither wants to talk to another. If you got everything you wanted from the Dream Act:



Would you then support some of the things that the reps want namely the things Ocean said:

The only rational approach to illegal immigration requires an E-Verify type program to protect prospective employers who can then demonstrate they employed due diligence in their employment practices. This would be followed by severe punishment, including forfeiture of personal assets from employers who knowingly hired illegals, and immediate detention and deportation for illegals found to be living in this country. A green card immigrant labor program, like we used before is reasonable. If an alien is caught overstaying their work visa, they would be deported and never allowed to enter the country again.



If we're talking about the Dream Act, none of these kids that have come into the country over the past two years would of qualified anyways as you have to prove you've been here for at least five years.

That out of the way, I ask the same question to you, if you got what you wanted, would you give them what they wanted?

Read the legislation. It's all there, and yes, I agree to much of what ocean515 put forth. Problem is, no matter if I agree to it, he and his fellow republicans and the Republicans in Congress will fight to block and obstruct the very things he just asked for, and then it will be blamed on President Obama. Doesn't seem fair, does it?
 
If I got what I wanted? I want the laws already on the books enforced. Why should such a concept require acknowledgement that my "want" has been met, so I now must give something up?

The Dream Act was born of a farce. It is based on rewarding those who came here to exploit this country, and have no desire to operate any way differently in the future.

I guarantee that whatever action the government takes it will not please most Americans...why.....because both party's have a vested interest in these illegals.

If you people on the right stop thinking this is just a liberal issue ...and keep failing to see how complicit the republicans are ....this issue will never get a resolution that's good for the average middle class American.

I remember in 2000 and 2004 seeing many Mexicans riding around in their truck with '''W 04" ..sticker on the back. The illegals are not democrats ..or republicans...they will forever have a single cause ...and they''l support any party they feel can get more and more ...and more of them here!


But over and over again ...the right wing exploit your hate and have you constantly acting against your own interest! :(
 
Read the legislation. It's all there, and yes, I agree to much of what ocean515 put forth. Problem is, no matter if I agree to it, he and his fellow republicans and the Republicans in Congress will fight to block and obstruct the very things he just asked for, and then it will be blamed on President Obama. Doesn't seem fair, does it?

But you can see where he is coming from right? The laws on the books now aren't being enforced. Granted I think we'd have a hard time enforcing the laws as they are now with the scale of the problem, but still things aren't getting done. It should be a far faster process to get these kids through the system and send them back home. By the way, is that something you're okay with? Deporting these kids that came over? Because even under the DREAM Act they would be.
 
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