Elizabeth Warren: proving progressive ideals are for the weak minded.

[ocean515]

So, you're not going to answer the question. What are they exploiting in the country?

I answered the question. My answer covers as much ground as I intended it to. The obvious does not require specifics to understand.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I answered the question. My answer covers as much ground as I intended it to. The obvious does not require specifics to understand.

No, you did not answer the question. You gave me circular logic.

 

[JasperL]

Absolutely, as the millions who preceded them have been doing for decades. Do you really think they have come here as refugees?

The Border Patrol released a report last Thursday that documents more "family units" have crossed the border this year, than "unaccompanied children". They aren't escaping, they are coming to exploit. And if liberal/progressives get their way, the reward will be even greater than it already is.

So by exploit, you mean leave the hellholes they're in for a better life, same decision all the other immigrants to this country made.

 

[Hamster Buddha]

Shortages of anything inspires people to step into the void. These fields are highly paid and rewarding. I think from the dozen engineers I have on staff, perhaps two were born here, and graduated from US colleges and universities. I think it's ridiculous, but it's how it is right now. If we keep ignoring this demand by filling it with people from other countries, how are we supposed to get the focus back? To the very best of my knowledge, every foreign born engineer I have dealt with has come here legally.

Again, that is why I would support a system that identifies need, and directs available student loans to those disciplines.

Why do you think it's ridiculous that so many on your staff were born from another country? A statement like that makes you sound like an isolationist, but I don't think you are. So please elaborate.

Also, what do you mean by get the focus back? If you mean by getting more Americans to graduate in those fields, I don't know if we ever will to be honest. Another reason for an overhaul of immigration is the fact that the population is seriously aging. This is due to a combo of factors where one is you have people living longer, and to the fact that we aren't producing enough babies as we use to. Two facts to explain just how dire a shape we are in for the long term:

* In 1970, we had about 4 people working for everyone 1 person on social security. By 2030, we're expected to half that number with only 2 tax payers supporting 1 person who is drawing social security.

* The U.S. population grew by just 0.72 percent in the year ended July 1, 2013, the Census Bureau reported Monday. That’s the slowest growth rate since 1937.

The only reason we aren't facing as in bad a shape as Europe (with some countries, like Germany, having negative population growth) is that we have so many people, young too, want to come to this country and make a life for themselves. Some don't sure, but we can always deal with those can't we? That's why I've always seen Immigration as not so much a problem, but an opportunity. One that ensure that while Europe goes down, the US will remain strong well into the 21st Century.

 

[Raven1]

I believe our trade negotiators have been abysmal failures, and "my colleagues" as you put covers too many people to understand who you are attempting to lump into one group.

OK. Let me be more blunt. Do you support free trade? Do you think your rank-and-file republican supports free trade? Do you think Republicans in Congress support free trade? What do you believe is a bigger issue? Free trade or open borders, or do you perceive them as equally important issues? I'm just curious.

 

[JasperL]

OUR American Dream.

If they wanted to pursue theirs, they'd understand it requires they do so legally.

They don't care one bit about the concept of "The American Dream". What they understand is that it's a dream Americans are willing to let them exploit the country.

I'm just curious. Change shoes for a moment with a guy in Mexico, he's got a family, a job that pays nothing, a corrupt government, and he can see his life unfold and it's poverty for him and his kids. And he knows if he gets to America, his life improves and the odds of a better life for his kids increase dramatically. Now if you're that guy, are you going to say, "Sorry mom, and kids, we have to stay here and live in this dirt floored hut until we get our green card, which will be never, but it's illegal, you see, and sure, we have no life here, but we cannot break the immigration laws! It's my moral duty as a father to first comply with immigration laws, and then worry about providing for you guys."

Goodness, I would HOPE I had the courage to do whatever it took to get me and my family across that border and into America. If conservatives were half the Real Men they claim to be, they'd be the first group crossing over the border and saying to hell with government rules, you're going to pull yourself and your family up by their available bootstraps and build a better life in the U.S.

 

[Deuce]

No, they've "been obstructive" because their racist. Haven't you been listening?

View attachment 67169983

In the middle of an economic recession, they flat out admitted their first goal was to stop Obama from being re-elected. They cared more about winning elections than governing.

 

[Hamster Buddha]

In the middle of an economic recession, they flat out admitted their first goal was to stop Obama from being re-elected. They cared more about winning elections than governing.

Right.... just as it was the democrats goal to ensure Obama got re-elected. Point?

 

[Thrilla]

In the middle of an economic recession, they flat out admitted their first goal was to stop Obama from being re-elected. They cared more about winning elections than governing.

the first job of any and every american politician is to win elections.. the 2nd job is to win re-election.... the 3rd is to prevent the other team from winning elections.

somewhere around #764734673467 is where we find .."governing".

 

[Deuce]

the first job of any and every american politician is to win elections.. the 2nd job is to win re-election.... the 3rd is to prevent the other team from winning elections.

somewhere around #764734673467 is where we find .."governing".

Right, but they're supposed to at least pretend they give a **** about something else, because then they sometimes accidentally do something worthwhile.

 

[Hamster Buddha]

So, you're not going to answer the question. What are they exploiting in the country?

Stuff like this: Illegals still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings

 

[Raven1]

I'm just curious. Change shoes for a moment with a guy in Mexico, he's got a family, a job that pays nothing, a corrupt government, and he can see his life unfold and it's poverty for him and his kids. And he knows if he gets to America, his life improves and the odds of a better life for his kids increase dramatically. Now if you're that guy, are you going to say, "Sorry mom, and kids, we have to stay here and live in this dirt floored hut until we get our green card, which will be never, but it's illegal, you see, and sure, we have no life here, but we cannot break the immigration laws! It's my moral duty as a father to first comply with immigration laws, and then worry about providing for you guys."

Goodness, I would HOPE I had the courage to do whatever it took to get me and my family across that border and into America. If conservatives were half the Real Men they claim to be, they'd be the first group crossing over the border and saying to hell with government rules, you're going to pull yourself and your family up by their available bootstraps and build a better life in the U.S.

I understand the plight, and while this may not sit well with some of my democratic fellows, America cannot take in the almost 4 billion people in this world who do not even have access to the internet. In Australia, their people, and their government representing their people will not even take in the few Sri Lankans fleeing the violence of the Tamil Tigers on boat through the dangerous and deadly waters of the Indian Ocean. Why do you suppose that is? What other nation on planet Earth accepts being decimated by an overflowing influx of illegal immigrants? Many Republicans in Congress like the slave-labor type wages that are to be prospered from those crossing our southern border, and many Democrats in Congress think that they will gain votes from the same people.

I don't blame those who would cross our border for wanting a better life. I hold responsibility in those who hire them, those who would encourage them to keep coming, and the politicians who refuse to do something about the issue.

 

[Thrilla]

Right, but they're supposed to at least pretend they give a **** about something else, because then they sometimes accidentally do something worthwhile.

personally, I like it when they slip up and tell the truth... at the very least, it validates my cynicism

 

[Raven1]

the first job of any and every american politician is to win elections.. the 2nd job is to win re-election.... the 3rd is to prevent the other team from winning elections.

somewhere around #764734673467 is where we find .."governing".

At no point did Republicans in Congress take President Obama's offers across the aisle. They obstructed, obscured, and criticized. They offered no plan in return, and fought and rejected even their own ideas. They shut down the government, hurt our nation's credit, threatened to impeach, and now they are suing President Obama... Can you ever recall a party in Congress that ever did this in American history? Not even in the 1850's did this take place.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Stuff like this: Illegals still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings

From the article: Illegal immigrants generally are prohibited from receiving federal benefits under the 1996 welfare reform law.
But an internal Health and Human Services audit last year found that while CMS has policies to prevent illegal immigrants from getting most Medicare benefits, it didn’t prevent them from taking part in the prescription drug benefit, or Medicare Part D, which was added under President George W. Bush and expanded by Mr. Obama’s health care law.


Read more: Illegal aliens still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Makes perfect sense. Illegals come hear to exploit Medicare part D:roll:

 

[ocean515]

No, you did not answer the question. You gave me circular logic.

Sorry, but your circular thinking does not compel me to explain my opinion with any greater detail. As I wrote, the obvious does not require specifics to understand. Those who can't, most likely never will. eace

 

[ocean515]

So by exploit, you mean leave the hellholes they're in for a better life, same decision all the other immigrants to this country made.

Not at all. This liberal/progressive blather that attempts to equate the two is laughable. You need to gather up the troops and come up with a better excuse.

 

[ocean515]

Why do you think it's ridiculous that so many on your staff were born from another country? A statement like that makes you sound like an isolationist, but I don't think you are. So please elaborate.

Also, what do you mean by get the focus back? If you mean by getting more Americans to graduate in those fields, I don't know if we ever will to be honest. Another reason for an overhaul of immigration is the fact that the population is seriously aging. This is due to a combo of factors where one is you have people living longer, and to the fact that we aren't producing enough babies as we use to. Two facts to explain just how dire a shape we are in for the long term:

* In 1970, we had about 4 people working for everyone 1 person on social security. By 2030, we're expected to half that number with only 2 tax payers supporting 1 person who is drawing social security.

* The U.S. population grew by just 0.72 percent in the year ended July 1, 2013, the Census Bureau reported Monday. That’s the slowest growth rate since 1937.

The only reason we aren't facing as in bad a shape as Europe (with some countries, like Germany, having negative population growth) is that we have so many people, young too, want to come to this country and make a life for themselves. Some don't sure, but we can always deal with those can't we? That's why I've always seen Immigration as not so much a problem, but an opportunity. One that ensure that while Europe goes down, the US will remain strong well into the 21st Century.

I'm not an isolationist by any stretch. Otherwise I wouldn't employ them. What is ridiculous is that we aren't encouraging an effort to direct young people towards these high paying, in demand, professions. Instead, the push is for degrees in worthless liberal arts disciplines which don't pay, aren't in demand, and which they later demand taxpayers payoff as they discover they can't pay back their student loans.

I see this as a conspiracy of these liberal controlled colleges and universities who don't care about the future of their graduates, as long as the easy money pours in for their worthless education.

 

[ocean515]

OK. Let me be more blunt. Do you support free trade? Do you think your rank-and-file republican supports free trade? Do you think Republicans in Congress support free trade? What do you believe is a bigger issue? Free trade or open borders, or do you perceive them as equally important issues? I'm just curious.

If I had to pick between the two, I would pick free trade. Do I think rank and file Republicans support free trade. I would imagine so.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Sorry, but your circular thinking does not compel me to explain my opinion with any greater detail. As I wrote, the obvious does not require specifics to understand. Those who can't, most likely never will. eace

That's because you have it arse backwards again. People don't escape their home country to exploit America. They escape out of desperation because no sane person would risk life and limb unless they were desperate. Most likely it's for a job and many will put themselves in the worst conditions just to receive some money to feed themselves or their families. I'm not saying this doesn't cause internal problems in our country. I'm saying these people don't come here for the purpose to exploit our country.

 

[ocean515]

I'm just curious. Change shoes for a moment with a guy in Mexico, he's got a family, a job that pays nothing, a corrupt government, and he can see his life unfold and it's poverty for him and his kids. And he knows if he gets to America, his life improves and the odds of a better life for his kids increase dramatically. Now if you're that guy, are you going to say, "Sorry mom, and kids, we have to stay here and live in this dirt floored hut until we get our green card, which will be never, but it's illegal, you see, and sure, we have no life here, but we cannot break the immigration laws! It's my moral duty as a father to first comply with immigration laws, and then worry about providing for you guys."

Goodness, I would HOPE I had the courage to do whatever it took to get me and my family across that border and into America. If conservatives were half the Real Men they claim to be, they'd be the first group crossing over the border and saying to hell with government rules, you're going to pull yourself and your family up by their available bootstraps and build a better life in the U.S.

I used to think along the lines of your little story. What would I do if I were stuck in Mexico. After a lot of thought, and experience, I came to the conclusion that these people coming here illegally aren't heros, their self absorbed failures. They don't care what future damage they do to their children, they don't care what harm the do to the employers the scam for jobs, and they don' care what economic harm they cause to this country. The are self absorbed failures from failed cultures. If they want to help their families, they go to any lengths to insure the actions they take truly benefit their families, not harm others.

I have no empathy for the people who have come here to exploit the promise our forefathers died to secure.

Our ancestors faced the same dilemma, and took up arms so they could determine their own destiny. I suggest Mexicans do the same thing.

 

[Raven1]

If I had to pick between the two, I would pick free trade. Do I think rank and file Republicans support free trade. I would imagine so.

So does that mean you support free trade, or that you find it a bigger problem? I won't call you an isolationist. I don't support free trade nor open borders. I support fair immigration and good trade deals, not blind policies that hurt our nation. I'm not a Jeffersonian, who despite railing against Alexander Hamilton (and his VP killing Hamilton in a duel), not even Jefferson followed what he preached once in office as POTUS. He followed Hamiltonian economic policies. Just an FYI to all the so-called Jeffersonians out there.

 

[fedup]

Elizabeth Warren's 11 Commandments of Progressivism - NationalJournal.com

How does anyone fall for her absolute clap trap bull****? "I got min, the rest of you are on your own." REALLY? Let's turn it around: "What you worked for, belongs to who I say it belongs too" - Progressive Philosophy.

Seriously, the more I hear of this idiot, the more I shudder in horror at the fools that cheer her on. The world really IS upside down.

Her policies will only benefit the very corporations she hates. I don't dislike the woman, but she's either a hypocrite or incredibly stupid. Big business LOVES big government. The two are pals.

 

[Jack Hays]

So does that mean you support free trade, or that you find it a bigger problem? I won't call you an isolationist. I don't support free trade nor open borders. I support fair immigration and good trade deals, not blind policies that hurt our nation. I'm not a Jeffersonian, who despite railing against Alexander Hamilton (and his VP killing Hamilton in a duel), not even Jefferson followed what he preached once in office as POTUS. He followed Hamiltonian economic policies. Just an FYI to all the so-called Jeffersonians out there.

Open borders only works with free trade, low taxes and minimized regulations. I'm for all of that. The greatest period of economic growth in US history coincided with virtually free immigration.eace

 

[Raven1]

Her policies will only benefit the very corporations she hates. I don't dislike the woman, but she's either a hypocrite or incredibly stupid. Big business LOVES big government. The two are pals.

So your idea is to get rid of "big government" and let "big business" run buck wild? The two aren't necessarily pals, and when that happens, we call it a different system of governance, but here in America, the only protection people have against big business is the big, bad, mean ole federal gubmint. I know we have our problems right now, but giving "big business" further power is certainly not the answer, nor is keeping "big government" from reigning them in.