Doomsday warnings of US apocalypse gain ground (1 Viewer)

[danarhea]

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Economists peddling dire warnings that the world's number one economy is on the brink of collapse, amid high rates of unemployment and a spiraling public deficit, are flourishing here.


The guru of this doomsday line of thinking may be economist Nouriel Roubini, thrust into the forefront after predicting the chaos wrought by the subprime mortgage crisis and the collapse of the housing bubble.


"The US has run out of bullets," Roubini told an economic forum in Italy earlier this month. "Any shock at this point can tip you back into recession."

What's so surprising about this? I have been saying this for years now, ever since Clinton signed the Gramm-Bliley bill into law. It's coming, folks. How it ends is up to us. We can come out of this better than we were before, if we do the right things, and I believe we will. Here is how I believe it will play out:

1) First, we will end up defaulting on our debt. There is no way to prevent this. We do NOT have the resources to be able to ever pay back our debt. Our crisis is going to become the world's crisis, but those who will suffer most, economically, will be the banksters, whose only wealth is on nothing but paper, which was created from all this debt, and not much else.

2) Heads are REALLY going to roll in Washington, and whoever replaces them will rebuild America's economic policies on sane foundations.

3) This might be an opportunity for some to attempt to create a new currency that will tie America's economic foundation to that of Canada and Mexico. There has been some talk about the Amero as a new currency. The good news is that this will never get off the ground, and will remain forever fodder for conspiracy theories.

4) Our new economic policy will once again call for a currency backed by something of value, as opposed to debt. Fiat currency, that is, currency with a value of whoever arbitrarily decides what it is going to be, will become history.

I believe that we have a very rough road ahead of us, as our economy melts down. It is going to be very tough for some of us, but I truly believe that, once the proper steps are taken, we are going to come out of this better than we were before, and that the government of the people, by the people, and for the people, will once again become just that, instead of the tool for the banksters it became under our current economic policy.

Yes, there is bad news coming, but if we persevere, the good news down the road will far outweigh it. Don't listen to politicians and other professional liars, as they make their last stand, desperately spinning what is about to happen, while praying that the status quo will prevail. It won't. The writing is already on the wall, and their days in power are numbered. When the meltdown does happen, this WILL be change you can believe in. Our leaders will once more work for us, and not for just the select few who have them in their pockets, via the lobbies. When this is over, perhaps the lobbyists can find work at McDonald's, if the supervisors somehow have it in their hearts to overlook their treasonous acts, and give them a second chance. After all, the retarded are always given a chance in life. LOL.

In the end, America WILL prevail.

I know that I am a bit over the top with this rant, so I will now put on my flameproof suit and get ready to take some hits. :mrgreen:

Article is here.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

What's so surprising about this? I have been saying this for years now, ever since Clinton signed the Gramm-Bliley bill into law. It's coming, folks. How it ends is up to us. We can come out of this better than we were before, if we do the right things, and I believe we will. Here is how I believe it will play out:

1) First, we will end up defaulting on our debt. There is no way to prevent this. We do NOT have the resources to be able to ever pay back our debt. Our crisis is going to become the world's crisis, but those who will suffer most, economically, will be the banksters, whose only wealth is on nothing but paper, which was created from all this debt, and not much else.

2) Heads are REALLY going to roll in Washington, and whoever replaces them will rebuild America's economic policies on sane foundations.

3) This might be an opportunity for some to attempt to create a new currency that will tie America's economic foundation to that of Canada and Mexico. There has been some talk about the Amero as a new currency. The good news is that this will never get off the ground, and will remain forever fodder for conspiracy theories.

4) Our new economic policy will once again call for a currency backed by something of value, as opposed to debt. Fiat currency, that is, currency with a value of whoever arbitrarily decides what it is going to be, will become history.

I believe that we have a very rough road ahead of us, as our economy melts down. It is going to be very tough for some of us, but I truly believe that, once the proper steps are taken, we are going to come out of this better than we were before, and that the government of the people, by the people, and for the people, will once again become just that, instead of the tool for the banksters it became under our current economic policy.

Yes, there is bad news coming, but if we persevere, the good news down the road will far outweigh it. Don't listen to politicians and other professional liars, as they make their last stand, desperately spinning what is about to happen, while praying that the status quo will prevail. It won't. The writing is already on the wall, and their days in power are numbered. When the meltdown does happen, this WILL be change you can believe in. Our leaders will once more work for us, and not for just the select few who have them in their pockets, via the lobbies. When this is over, perhaps the lobbyists can find work at McDonald's, if the supervisors somehow have it in their hearts to overlook their treasonous acts, and give them a second chance. After all, the retarded are always given a chance in life. LOL.

In the end, America WILL prevail.

I know that I am a bit over the top with this rant, so I will now put on my flameproof suit and get ready to take some hits. :mrgreen:

Article is here.

A few things I agree with and a few I dont

Is the US headed for some really difficult times ahead, most definately

The fiat currency will remain, the US cant afford to go back to a gold standard

Heads will role in washington only to be replaced by similar heads


Once all the bad things have been worked out and sane policies have been enacted (Lobbyist restrictions) a law similar to the Glass Stegal act then the US will resume growth from a far lower base

 

[Councilman]

It is up to us to stop Obama ASAP before he gets his wish.

 

[MaggieD]

Thoughtful, intelligent post, Dan. I sure hope you're wrong.

What's so surprising about this? I have been saying this for years now, ever since Clinton signed the Gramm-Bliley bill into law. It's coming, folks. How it ends is up to us. We can come out of this better than we were before, if we do the right things, and I believe we will. Here is how I believe it will play out:

1) First, we will end up defaulting on our debt. There is no way to prevent this. We do NOT have the resources to be able to ever pay back our debt. Our crisis is going to become the world's crisis, but those who will suffer most, economically, will be the banksters, whose only wealth is on nothing but paper, which was created from all this debt, and not much else.

Perhaps we will inflate our way out of it. It's worked in the past...unfortunately, and scarily, so have world wars.

2) Heads are REALLY going to roll in Washington, and whoever replaces them will rebuild America's economic policies on sane foundations.

Nobody can top Lord Tammerlain: "Heads will roll replaced by similar heads."

3) This might be an opportunity for some to attempt to create a new currency that will tie America's economic foundation to that of Canada and Mexico. There has been some talk about the Amero as a new currency. The good news is that this will never get off the ground, and will remain forever fodder for conspiracy theories.

Oh, yikes. Why on earth wold we want to "tie America's economic foundation to that of Mexico?" Canada? Okay, but Mexico? Hope you're right there.

4) Our new economic policy will once again call for a currency backed by something of value, as opposed to debt. Fiat currency, that is, currency with a value of whoever arbitrarily decides what it is going to be, will become history.

Maybe it'll be backed by diamonds and Mr. DeBeers will become Chairman of the Federal Reserve.

I believe that we have a very rough road ahead of us, as our economy melts down. It is going to be very tough for some of us, but I truly believe that, once the proper steps are taken, we are going to come out of this better than we were before, and that the government of the people, by the people, and for the people, will once again become just that, instead of the tool for the banksters it became under our current economic policy.

I love this, bears reading twice:

Yes, there is bad news coming, but if we persevere, the good news down the road will far outweigh it. Don't listen to politicians and other professional liars, as they make their last stand, desperately spinning what is about to happen, while praying that the status quo will prevail. It won't. The writing is already on the wall, and their days in power are numbered. When the meltdown does happen, this WILL be change you can believe in. Our leaders will once more work for us, and not for just the select few who have them in their pockets, via the lobbies. When this is over, perhaps the lobbyists can find work at McDonald's, if the supervisors somehow have it in their hearts to overlook their treasonous acts, and give them a second chance. After all, the retarded are always given a chance in life. LOL.

In the end, America WILL prevail.

Well, depressing, all in all. I sincerely hope you're wrong. We made it through 1929 -- took over ten miserable years, but we made it. You're right, though. We Americans are more resilient than we even know. Whatever comes, we'll make it. In the meantime, pay off your house, start living beneath your means, save some money, and keep your powder dry.

 

[hazlnut]

It is up to us to stop Obama ASAP before he gets his wish.

3 posts in, and the stubborn stupidity that keeps the tug-o-war going kicks in. Far-right/ far-left need to be put out to pasture and let the pragmatic middle take over and run things for a while.

Hard choices that the partisans protecting their jobs will never make. What got us here:

*unfunded wars
*for profit health care dictating terms of health care reform
*banking/financial sector dictating terms of regulation
*refusal to make hard choices on both taxes and spending

 

[Barbbtx]

In a way I'm grateful for Obama.
If we had McCain I think we might still be on the road we are only moving slower, and we'd still be sleeping. Obama is getting his change come true so fast, it's snapped people awake. I think just in the nick of time to stop it.
I'm hopeful (almost confident) things will turn around and it won't take years.

 

[Orion]

The U.S. will enter another depression, then it will come out of it with a new currency whose value is adjusted based on actual assets, not fiat. The U.S. will survive, its dollar just won't be centre stage anymore. It's going to be a hard lesson though and I am not looking forward to it.

I think the "end of the world" based on economic meltdown is far more likely than some kind of environmental catastrophe. The thing that concerns me the most is that the U.S. has spent the latter half of the 20th century and beyond creating new and volatile security situations all around the world due to its foreign policy. If its presence is withdrawn due to economic collapse then there will be much bigger dangers on the horizon for everyone than simple monetary issues.

 

[Divine Wind]

Mark Twain: "The report of my death is an exaggeration"

People both inside and outside the United States have been predicting its demise for over two centuries. Our nation is large and robust enough to be resilient against simple economic downturns or political setbacks.

 

[PeteEU]

People both inside and outside the United States have been predicting its demise for over two centuries. Our nation is large and robust enough to be resilient against simple economic downturns or political setbacks.

They also said that in the British Empire, Roman Empire and so on and so on.. where are they now?

 

[digsbe]

They also said that in the British Empire, Roman Empire and so on and so on.. where are they now?

They failed because they were in Europe :mrgreen: Now they are these little debt ridden nations that have little relevance in the world.

 

[Divine Wind]

They also said that in the British Empire, Roman Empire and so on and so on.. where are they now?

Nothing is permanent, but the Romans lasted 500 years and the British about the same. By your measure, we have another 300 years to go!

Woo-Hoo Pax Americana!!!!! See y'all in 2276!

 

[JakeFromWI]

1) First, we will end up defaulting on our debt. There is no way to prevent this. We do NOT have the resources to be able to ever pay back our debt. Our crisis is going to become the world's crisis, but those who will suffer most, economically, will be the banksters, whose only wealth is on nothing but paper, which was created from all this debt, and not much else.

2) Heads are REALLY going to roll in Washington, and whoever replaces them will rebuild America's economic policies on sane foundations.

3) This might be an opportunity for some to attempt to create a new currency that will tie America's economic foundation to that of Canada and Mexico. There has been some talk about the Amero as a new currency. The good news is that this will never get off the ground, and will remain forever fodder for conspiracy theories.

4) Our new economic policy will once again call for a currency backed by something of value, as opposed to debt. Fiat currency, that is, currency with a value of whoever arbitrarily decides what it is going to be, will become history.

1- we will not default on our debt so long as China remains a huge investor. Why? They won't let us, thier economy is strong and we are not the ONLY people who create wealth anymore. China knows this and would have too much to lose - because they are so tied up with us now.

2- I think its great that a conservative hopes the US government in Washington should be responsible for rebuilding America's economic policies. But the federal reserve is a bad idea right?

3- I like how you mention a "conspiracy theory" then debunk it by, well calling it a conspiracy theory. So I'm unsure as to why such an out there suggestion is even listed.

4- Fiat currency is the only way our lazy American asses, and our rich American asses can make any money. If we go to a currency that doesnt rely on debt, we wont need banks. We wont need credit. We won't need rich people. Are you really arguing for that?

I think I can agree on a couple things with this guy.

 

[apdst]

3 posts in, and the stubborn stupidity that keeps the tug-o-war going kicks in. Far-right/ far-left need to be put out to pasture and let the pragmatic middle take over and run things for a while.

Hard choices that the partisans protecting their jobs will never make. What got us here:

*unfunded wars
*for profit health care dictating terms of health care reform
*banking/financial sector dictating terms of regulation
*refusal to make hard choices on both taxes and spending

A pragmatic Liberal middle. Correct? :rofl

 

[RightinNYC]

The nice part about predicting a future disaster is that you'll eventually be right. That doesn't mean it was (or is) a good prediction.

3 posts in, and the stubborn stupidity that keeps the tug-o-war going kicks in. Far-right/ far-left need to be put out to pasture and let the pragmatic middle take over and run things for a while.

Hard choices that the partisans protecting their jobs will never make. What got us here:

*unfunded wars
*for profit health care dictating terms of health care reform
*banking/financial sector dictating terms of regulation
*refusal to make hard choices on both taxes and spending

"We need to cut out all this partisan bull**** and stop being so needlessly political. We should all just recognize that we're here because of things that the Republicans are responsible for."

Forgive me if I don't give much credence to your pleas for unity.

 

[Qatzel Ok]

1- we will not default on our debt so long as China remains a huge investor. Why? They won't let us, thier economy is strong and we are not the ONLY people who create wealth anymore. China knows this and would have too much to lose - because they are so tied up with us now.

Does a tree really depend on the termites that consume it?

China needs natural resources which it can acquire by exchanging manufactured goods. So all China really needs from the USA is wheat and wood products. These products are not enough to support American levels of consumption.

And the destruction of America's manufacturing base/agricultural base is the result of the elite there.

The Pakistani elite - in a related story - is reponsible for harvesting lumber in inappropriate quantities. And this lead to the flood damage there now.

The American elite has clear-cut the entire US economy. What a flood that's going to be.

 

[JakeFromWI]

The nice part about predicting a future disaster is that you'll eventually be right. That doesn't mean it was (or is) a good prediction.

"We need to cut out all this partisan bull**** and stop being so needlessly political. We should all just recognize that we're here because of things that the Republicans are responsible for."

Forgive me if I don't give much credence to your pleas for unity.

Thanks NYC. So true what you said about foresight. Often, we can even will it to happen.
Also thank you for talking sense into the guy from the "prabgmatic middle." Makes us look bad.

 

[donsutherland1]

Several quick thoughts:

1. The article implies that Professor Roubini subscribes to a potential American collapse scenario. He does not. His point about being out of policy "bullets" only refers to the effectiveness of responses in avoiding recession if the U.S. is hit by another significant shock. Currently, the U.S. has a still fragile financial system (though it is stronger than it was last year), high unemployment that has constrained growth in aggregate demand, lack of energy flexibility, and high budget deficits that have created potential public opposition to significant new stimulus measures. Hence, the U.S. policy options are limited.

2. Professor Kotlikoff's concerns about the nation's debt situation/fiscal imbalances is a medium- and longer-term threat. The U.S. is currently on an unsustainable fiscal course. Credible fiscal consolidation (discretionary spending reductions, mandatory spending reform, tax hikes) will be required to put the U.S. on a sound fiscal course. Otherwise, the risk of a debt crisis, sustained and elevated inflation, foreign currency crisis will increase. No country is immune from such crises once they reach their debt tolerance threshold. That the U.S. has a higher threshold than many other states does not mean that it can avoid such a crisis should it remain on its current fiscal path. But that is still not a near-term risk.

3. As the U.S. fiscal challenge is not a near-term risk, the U.S. has time to make the policy corrections necessary to avoid that situation. Whether the U.S. will learn from the experience of other states facing a similar threat or wait until a crisis unfolds remains to be seen. But for now, the U.S. still has sufficient market confidence that it can leverage and time to make adjustments.

4. Other incipient risks involve declining relative competitiveness. Stagnation in the nation's educational attainment level relative to other states is troubling. A fragmented and piecemeal employment services market helps prolong non-structural unemployment. Recent declines in U.S. corporate R&D relative to international firms is also worrisome. The lack of a credible energy policy is also increasing vulnerability to an energy shock, and sadly, the lessons of energy shocks from 1973, 1979, and 2008 have been forgotten or ignored.

5. The world will remain multipolar for the foreseeable future; it never was unipolar hence complaints that the U.S. is losing preeminence are based on a situation that did not exist. The U.S. was the world's most powerful nation and still is. It simply is not preeminent e.g., it cannot unilaterally impose its will on the world.

That the U.S. role in that world will diminish in the longer-term on account of increased economic, military, and political power by countries such as China and India does not mean that the U.S. will become irrelevant anytime soon. It won't. Even well into the future, it will still have the potential to remain a "balancer" when it comes to the application of power and that will provide it with substantial leverage in world affairs beyond the economic realm.

Finally, the rebirth of China to great power status reveals that a decline from such status need not be permanent. In the very distant future, the U.S. can remain a major power given its population, economy, political stability, etc. But it will need to make decisions, some of which could be painful in the short-term, to take that course.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Apocalypse stories these days are all the rage. So is this one. Want proof?

Apocalypse movies have exploded in the last few years... Because it works, it effects people because our lives don't seem as certain as they did a few years ago, but it's also fueled this perception that the end is nye. Maybe not in a biblical sense persay (Although that's part of it), and I completely understand that's not what Dan is suggesting, but it's a culture of the perception of a downfall.

You say something often enough and it'll happen... just saying :mrgreen:

 

[The Uncola]

3 posts in, and the stubborn stupidity that keeps the tug-o-war going kicks in. Far-right/ far-left need to be put out to pasture and let the pragmatic middle take over and run things for a while.

Hard choices that the partisans protecting their jobs will never make. What got us here:

*unfunded wars
*for profit health care dictating terms of health care reform
*banking/financial sector dictating terms of regulation
*refusal to make hard choices on both taxes and spending

Looking at recent history, one thing is abundantly clear, those that put this Nation at such serious risk, will NEVER, EVER take responsibility for their failures. They have learned nothing.

 

[MaggieD]

Looking at recent history, one thing is abundantly clear, those that put this Nation at such serious risk, will NEVER, EVER take responsibility for their failures. They have learned nothing.

The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes
BY Charley Reese
(Date of publication unknown)

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits? Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices - 545 human beings out of the 235 million - are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country. I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered but private central bank.

Full article here. Read it once a year whether you need it or not: The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes

 

[Hatuey]

The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes
BY Charley Reese
(Date of publication unknown)

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits? Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices - 545 human beings out of the 235 million - are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country. I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered but private central bank.

Full article here. Read it once a year whether you need it or not: The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes

Why doesn't the article mention that those 545 people were put in power by the other 235 million? I guess it's simply easier to blame 545 than the 235 million who put them there. People get the government they vote for.

 

[The Uncola]

The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes
BY Charley Reese
(Date of publication unknown)

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits? Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices - 545 human beings out of the 235 million - are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country. I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered but private central bank.

Full article here. Read it once a year whether you need it or not: The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes

I'll pass on responding to C&P propaganda. Thanks anyway.

 

[TBone]

It is up to us to stop Obama ASAP before he gets his wish.

I see you are for working together? This is the crap that will cause us to go deeper. It is about time both parties grap each other by the b(*&^& and squeeze everytime partisan bs is brought up instead of solutions.

 

[TBone]

The nice part about predicting a future disaster is that you'll eventually be right. That doesn't mean it was (or is) a good prediction.




"We need to cut out all this partisan bull**** and stop being so needlessly political. We should all just recognize that we're here because of things that the Republicans are responsible for."

Forgive me if I don't give much credence to your pleas for unity.

So, what are your suggestions to fix it, minus the he said she said bs? Like you i don't agree this all GOP or DEM. But the current problem is both by their refusal to put their show boating aside.

 

[The Uncola]

Why doesn't the article mention that those 545 people were put in power by the other 235 million? I guess it's simply easier to blame 545 than the 235 million who put them there. People get the government they vote for.

Bingo.

Why is it that those who claim that "government is the problem, not the solution," are so damn adament about being in control of the government?