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Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler [W:115]

Fallenangel

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Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler - The Washington Post

"In the Western popular imagination -- particularly the American one -- World War II is a conflict we won. It was fought on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima, through the rubble of recaptured French towns and capped by sepia-toned scenes of joy and young love in New York. It was a victory shaped by the steeliness of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, the moral fiber of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and the awesome power of an atomic bomb.
But that narrative shifts dramatically when you go to Russia, where World War II is called the Great Patriotic War and is remembered in a vastly different light...
"




I"ll be watching the Victory Parade today, remembering the millions and millions of soldiers and civilians that perished in that horrible war.


Cheers,
Fallen.
 

Glen Contrarian

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Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler - The Washington Post

"In the Western popular imagination -- particularly the American one -- World War II is a conflict we won. It was fought on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima, through the rubble of recaptured French towns and capped by sepia-toned scenes of joy and young love in New York. It was a victory shaped by the steeliness of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, the moral fiber of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and the awesome power of an atomic bomb.
But that narrative shifts dramatically when you go to Russia, where World War II is called the Great Patriotic War and is remembered in a vastly different light...
"




I"ll be watching the Victory Parade today, remembering the millions and millions of soldiers and civilians that perished in that horrible war.


Cheers,
Fallen.

I quite agree. I am retired U.S. Navy, and when I tell my friends - and the others here on DP - that the Soviets' victory was all but ensured before we ever invaded Normandy, and that all our invasion really did was to shorten the war and ensure that the rest of the continent didn't become part of the Soviet bloc. You can imagine some of the comments I get when I say that...but when we invaded, the Soviet victories in the great battles - outside Moscow, in Stalingrad, and at Kursk - were already done and the Soviets had already pushed the Wehrmacht back inside Poland.
 

donsutherland1

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...
I"ll be watching the Victory Parade today, remembering the millions and millions of soldiers and civilians that perished in that horrible war.

Cheers,
Fallen.

Hopefully, despite the current differences between the U.S./Europe and Russia, people won't succumb to the temptation to revise history. There's little doubt that the Soviet Union played a major role in helping make victory possible for the Allies in World War II. Also, the Soviet Union suffered horrific loss of life that shouldn't be forgotten either.
 

PeteEU

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Found todays VE coverage rather disgusting as there was almost no mention of the Russians.. only mention I saw was some media making fun of a broken down new super tank at the VE day parade in Moscow.. sorry but that is disrespectful of the millions of Russians that sacrificed their lives in defeating Hitler.
 

Reformedfindlay

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Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler - The Washington Post

"In the Western popular imagination -- particularly the American one -- World War II is a conflict we won. It was fought on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima, through the rubble of recaptured French towns and capped by sepia-toned scenes of joy and young love in New York. It was a victory shaped by the steeliness of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, the moral fiber of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and the awesome power of an atomic bomb.
But that narrative shifts dramatically when you go to Russia, where World War II is called the Great Patriotic War and is remembered in a vastly different light...
"




I"ll be watching the Victory Parade today, remembering the millions and millions of soldiers and civilians that perished in that horrible war.


Cheers,
Fallen.

That was back when the Russians didn't tick us off. Now they tick us off.

**** them and **** their country and **** their contribution and **** their current leader.
 

chromium

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Yes? Anyone who isn't a complete tool and can actually do their own research on the matter will invariably conclude that the soviets won the european conflict.

Had hitler not invaded, or had he not diverted units to oil fields but instead pushed directly on moscow, by the time the US entered the war it could've easily been alone and who knows what happens.
 

PeteEU

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Found todays VE coverage rather disgusting as there was almost no mention of the Russians.. only mention I saw was some media making fun of a broken down new super tank at the VE day parade in Moscow.. sorry but that is disrespectful of the millions of Russians that sacrificed their lives in defeating Hitler.

K I will take this back somewhat, since the Russian parade was today, Saturday and not Friday. The news channels.. well some of them did cover it live.
 

Peter King

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To the Red Army of general Shukov and others we owe a thank you, they helped liberate Europe. Maybe we would have defeated Adolf without them, but I doubt that. If not for a war on two fronts and the Russian campaign destroying the bulk of German army strength, the allied forces would have had a lot bigger task when they landed on the French beaches, if not an impossible task.

Adolf dug his own grave, he destroyed Germany in the end. He choose to attack Russia and because of those pathetic Italians under Il Duce, the Germans were forced to fight in Africa too.

If Adolf had not done those two things, we might all be speaking German in large parts of Europe.

What if the 3.8 million troops Adolf threw at Stalin would have been able to fight in France? Or in the south of Italy?

What if the 2.5 million allied troops had faced a fresh German army of 4 million rather than the 1 million they ended up facing? With the 3350 tanks they used against Russia, the 2770 planes and the 7800 artillery pieces against the allied forces in France?

So in the end Adolf saved the world from Adolf if you really think about it. His insanity and arrogance cost him everything. His biggest mistakes where attacking Russia, helping Italy in Northern Africa and working together with Japan (which meant declaring war on the USA).

Hitler was full of bad ideas and his bad ideas and his megalomania cost the German people hundreds of thousands of lives, as well as the millions of people in other countries who died because of his war and his arrogance. Thinking that forcing troops to stay put instead of retreating and defending the German motherland. They died or got captured and then died in Siberia because of Hitler's incredibly bad military choices. And thinking his troops would fight to the death and the leaders of these army groups would rather die than be captured.

Hitler thought that by promoting General von Paulus to Field Marshall would force him to commit suicide (because no German FM had ever been caught alive because they would rather fight to the death or eat a bullet) but von Paulus was a brave man and he surrendered and his troops where not allowed to commit suicide either.

In short, Hilter was an idiotic moron.
 

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Good thread. I teach some Russians English and they are generally well-disposed to Brits, though the ones who want to learn English may be more so. One of them told me that Russians are a bit sore that their contribution to WW2 is not acknowledged by Westerners much so this article is great in educating us all better. It was a shame that so many Western leaders boycotted the Victory Day jamboree in Russia. Sure, it's a hyper-nationalistic event but the main point is to commemorate the war dead and their contribution and there doesn't need to be a political argument about that. Showing another nation a bit of respect which is well-deserved can only improve relations.
 

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St. Petersburg, Russia, Saturday, May 9, 2015


'Immortal Regiment' Marches Through Streets of Russia - NBC News
"Thousands of people took to the streets in Russia with portraits of their ancestors who fought in World War II to mark the 70th anniversary of victory over Nazi Germany in an event called the "Immortal Regiment" march."



Fallen.
 

Andalublue

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Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler - The Washington Post

"In the Western popular imagination -- particularly the American one -- World War II is a conflict we won. It was fought on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima, through the rubble of recaptured French towns and capped by sepia-toned scenes of joy and young love in New York. It was a victory shaped by the steeliness of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, the moral fiber of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and the awesome power of an atomic bomb.
But that narrative shifts dramatically when you go to Russia, where World War II is called the Great Patriotic War and is remembered in a vastly different light...
"




I"ll be watching the Victory Parade today, remembering the millions and millions of soldiers and civilians that perished in that horrible war.


Cheers,
Fallen.

I don't usually allow American posters to get away with claiming all the credit for defeating the Nazis, nor will I allow you this thread title either. Britain was defying Hitler, the Luftwaffe and their invasion plans while Molotov and Ribbentrop were still playing kissy-face.
 

gunner

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I don't usually allow American posters to get away with claiming all the credit for defeating the Nazis, nor will I allow you this thread title either. Britain was defying Hitler, the Luftwaffe and their invasion plans while Molotov and Ribbentrop were still playing kissy-face.

Careful Andy, i'll start thinking you're a patriot :lol:
 

Fallenangel

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I don't usually allow American posters to get away with claiming all the credit for defeating the Nazis, nor will I allow you this thread title either. Britain was defying Hitler, the Luftwaffe and their invasion plans while Molotov and Ribbentrop were still playing kissy-face.

Sigh ...
Where did I ever ever claim "all the credit for defeating the Nazis"?!?



EDIT: If you don't like the thread title, write a complaint to The Washington Post, as the thread is simply named after the article they've published.

Fallen.
 
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Andalublue

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Sigh ...
Where did I ever ever claim "all the credit for defeating the Nazis"?!?
Um, here...?
"Don't forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler." Could the absence of any mention of the other Allies lead one to believe it was the Soviet Union alone that defeated Hitler? Yes, I think that's a reasonable deduction.
 

Fallenangel

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Um, here...?
"Don't forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler." Could the absence of any mention of the other Allies lead one to believe it was the Soviet Union alone that defeated Hitler? Yes, I think that's a reasonable deduction.

Sigh... or ... you could actually read the article.

...and, as I've already said.
" If you don't like the thread title, write a complaint to The Washington Post, as the thread is simply named after the article they've published."

Fallen.
 

Grant

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Um, here...?
"Don't forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler." Could the absence of any mention of the other Allies lead one to believe it was the Soviet Union alone that defeated Hitler? Yes, I think that's a reasonable deduction.
Of course we'd have to overlook the fact that Stalin had a pact with Hitler, that the Russians became involved only after Germany attacked them, and that after the war Russia enslaved the entire population of eastern Europe, caused millions of deaths, and destroyed untold lives..

There are few countries, if any, which have such an inglorious past as Russia.
 

Fallenangel

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Seriously ppl... how about actually reading the article in the OP?!?

Fallen.
 

Grant

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Seriously ppl... how about actually reading the article in the OP?!?

Fallen.
I've read it and am aware of how their Nazi Allies surprisingly turned on them resulting in the loss of many Russian, and German, lives. It was a stroke of luck for the Democracies.

But let's not pretend that Russia was interested in democracy or freedom, never having fought for either. They were interested in control of Europe, and the world, and the American people did more than anyone else to save Western Europe from the Communist fate.
 

JFish123

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And let us not forget the millions butchered by the soviet Stalin. I mean come on man.
 

Fallenangel

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I've read it and am aware of how their Nazi Allies surprisingly turned on them resulting in the loss of many Russian, and German, lives. It was a stroke of luck for the Democracies.

But let's not pretend that Russia was interested in democracy or freedom, never having fought for either. They were interested in control of Europe, and the world, and the American people did more than anyone else to save Western Europe from the Communist fate.


... imo your posts provide a very good illustration of what the article is talking about.

The inability to go beyond the usual rabid USSR/Stalin/whatnot bashing, being incapable to understand the sacrifice of the Soviet people (not only Russians) that fought for their freedom and the freedom of the world from Nazism.


Fallen.
 

Grant

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... imo your posts provide a very good illustration of what the article is talking about.The inability to go beyond the usual rabid USSR/Stalin/whatnot bashing, being incapable to understand the sacrifice of the Soviet people (not only Russians) that fought for their freedom and the freedom of the world from Nazism.Fallen.
Yes, i also have the inability to go beyond the rabid Nazi/Hitler/ Auschwitz bashing either. The Soviet people 'sacrificed' because they were under attack from Germany, and of course Stalin was waiting for the Allies and Germany to be destroyed and exhausted before he pounced, which Hitler knew..You don't explain how people would have been better off under Russian Communism than German Nazism.

Russia has been a force for evil in the previous century and they don't appear to be doing much good in this one either.
 

Manc Skipper

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Putin was gracious in thanking America Britain and France for their help then, despite their shameful absence today.
 

Fallenangel

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Yes, i also have the inability to go beyond the rabid Nazi/Hitler/ Auschwitz bashing either. The Soviet people 'sacrificed' because they were under attack from Germany, and of course Stalin was waiting for the Allies and Germany to be destroyed and exhausted before he pounced, which Hitler knew..
Huh?!?

You don't explain how people would have been better off under Russian Communism than German Nazism.

Russia has been a force for evil in the previous century and they don't appear to be doing much good in this one either.

The bold part, let me try then; My grandparents would've been dead under "German Nazism", yet they survived and lived under "Russian Communism".


Fallen.
 

Andalublue

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Putin was gracious in thanking America Britain and France for their help then, despite their shameful absence today.

I'm afraid I can't agree, Manc. A respectful, dignified memorial parade would have been one thing, and it would have been shameful to reject an invitation to that. Unfortunately Putin decided to turn the clock back to ostentatious sabre-rattling and displays of force that convince all observers that far from regretting the loss of life in WWII, Russia is determined that any future conflict would be even more deadly. I don't think it's disrespectful to boycott a disrespectful ritual.
 
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