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Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler [W:115]

Fallenangel said:
Huh?!?
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Why do you suppose Hitler attacked his ally?
The bold part, let me try then; My grandparents would've been dead under "German Nazism", yet they survived and lived under "Russian Communism". Fallen.
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Millions died under Russian Communism and I'm pleased to hear your grandparents were among the fortunate survivors.
 
People shouldn't ignore the role of the Soviet Union in causing the war either though.
 
Thank You Russia & the 27 million lost souls. The US lost about 250,000, not even in the Russian ball park. But we did supply aid, but not enough like we promised. Stalin was a ruthless bastard but, he did save the world from the Nazi's, like it or not. Things like scorched earth, not one step back, moving factories to the east & rebuilding them. Women & children working 18 hr days in these factories, some working themselves to death. Stalingrad & Leningrad were the ultimate sacrifices of WWII.

Lets not forget that the Russian were fighting up to 200 German Divisions at a time. The US & GB 10 to 20 Divisions at a time. Even Winston Churchill said that the Red Army tore the guts out of the German War Machine.

I agree all 3 allies were needed, but the most important of the 3 was Russia.
 
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Grant said:
Why do you suppose Hitler attacked his ally?
Millions died under Russian Communism and I'm pleased to hear your grandparents were among the fortunate survivors.
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Lebensraum:

Meaning "living space," it was a basic principle of Nazi foreign policy. Hitler believed that eastern Europe had to be conquered to create a vast German empire for more physical space, a greater population, and new territory to supply food and raw materials.
 
kjwins said:
Lebensraum:

Meaning "living space," it was a basic principle of Nazi foreign policy. Hitler believed that eastern Europe had to be conquered to create a vast German empire for more physical space, a greater population, and new territory to supply food and raw materials.
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That didn't apply to Russia.
 
Fallenangel said:
Wait. If you're even thinking of going here down the path of "Stalin wanted to attack Germany, that's why Hitler attacked first"... I advise you to read through this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/history/181425-biggest-nazi-blunder-their-invasion-soviet-union.html
...from around page 4.Fallen.
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I didn't say Stalin wanted to attack Germany. He wanted all of Europe and, as it turned out, he settled for the Eastern half of it. That wasn't by accident.
 
Grant said:
I didn't say Stalin wanted to attack Germany. He wanted all of Europe and, as it turned out, he settled for the Eastern half of it. That wasn't by accident.
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... so Stalin wanted to attack Europe, that's why Hitler attacked first?!? ...I really struggle to understand your "historic" position here.

Fallen.
 
Grant said:
That didn't apply to Russia.
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Yes it did, Russia is full of the resources the Nazi's wanted. The battle for Stalingrad was in part about the oil fields in the east. Hitler wrote down his game plan in Mein Kampf.
 
kjwins said:
Yes it did, Russia is full of the resources the Nazi's wanted. The battle for Stalingrad was in part about the oil fields in the east. Hitler wrote down his game plan in Mein Kampf.
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Oil fields and Lebensraum are quite different.
 
Took history of WW2 in college, and I know many hate academia just cuz, but thought I would share, but my academia pretty much boiled down on how the allies won world war II. He boiled it down as:
"Soviet Union provided the man power. The US provided the $$"
 
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Grant said:
Oil fields and Lebensraum are quite different.
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a. Even your link:
"Hitler, for his part, had clearly laid out his plans for European Hegemony in "Mein Kampf." In his book, Hitler spoke about securing "Lebensraum" (living space) in the east, which could only mean invading Russia. Additionally, there was no attempt on the part of the Nazis to mask their venomous hatred of the Slavs, Communists and Jews. Though the Russians never displayed the same amount of hatred for other races, they certainly did not like the Germans or even Jews (despite their huge numbers in Russia); though it should be remembered that anti-Semitism was rife all over Europe at the time."

b. How about instead of giving me links to lengthy articles written by second year Uni students...you would try to articulate your thoughts a bit more clearly ...?!?!

Fallen.
 
Grant said:
Oil fields and Lebensraum are quite different.
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If you read the definition. They kinda go hand in hand.

Lebensraum:

Meaning "living space," it was a basic principle of Nazi foreign policy. Hitler believed that eastern Europe had to be conquered to create a vast German empire for more physical space, a greater population, and new territory to supply food and raw materials.
 
Threegoofs said:
Well, I guess no one else has the cojones to say it.... so I will.

Thanks, Stalin!
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Well, it's certainly not like Stalin helped topple Hitler out of the goodness of his heart ... he had a vested interest in getting rid of Hitler, just like the rest of the Allies did.
 
Andalublue said:
I'm afraid I can't agree, Manc. A respectful, dignified memorial parade would have been one thing, and it would have been shameful to reject an invitation to that. Unfortunately Putin decided to turn the clock back to ostentatious sabre-rattling and displays of force that convince all observers that far from regretting the loss of life in WWII, Russia is determined that any future conflict would be even more deadly. I don't think it's disrespectful to boycott a disrespectful ritual.
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It's about honouring the war dead and every country can do it in their own way. Clearly Russia also wanted to show the world its power. If Western leaders had gone to Russia, shown respect to the war dead, and noted the display of might (hard to avoid), then this would have been a good step forward in defusing tensions between our countries. As it is, it's another snub which ratchets up the tension. Don't forget that the Russian people are hugely behind Putin, hugely value commemorations of their war dead, and they will note the snub too.
 
PeteEU said:
Found todays VE coverage rather disgusting as there was almost no mention of the Russians.. only mention I saw was some media making fun of a broken down new super tank at the VE day parade in Moscow..
sorry but that is disrespectful of the millions of Russians that sacrificed their lives in defeating Hitler.
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Some people on the far right in the USA will never accept the fact that the Soviet Union deserves most of the credit for the defeat of the Nazis in WWII.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Took history of WW2 in college, and I know many hate academia just cuz, but thought I would share, but my academia pretty much boiled down on how the allies won world war II. He boiled it down as:
"Soviet Union provided the man power. The US provided the $$"
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Way to go to write out the contribution of Britain, China, France, India, South Africa, Australia, Canada. Ask you academician who prevented Hitler from securing total victory in Europe between September 1939 and June 1941. Hint: it wasn't the US or the Soviet Union.
 
Andalublue said:
Way to go to write out the contribution of Britain, China, France, India, South Africa, Australia, Canada. Ask you academician who prevented Hitler from securing total victory in Europe between September 1939 and June 1941. Hint: it wasn't the US or the Soviet Union.
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The answer to that question is probably "Hitler."
 
Anglo-scot said:
It's about honouring the war dead and every country can do it in their own way.
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That's fine. If they wanted to do it through the medium of interpretive dance, that would be fine too.

Clearly Russia also wanted to show the world its power.
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And IMHO, that's not fine at all; that's deeply disrespectful of the dead on all sides.

If Western leaders had gone to Russia, shown respect to the war dead, and noted the display of might (hard to avoid), then this would have been a good step forward in defusing tensions between our countries.
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How would it have contributed to that?

As it is, it's another snub which ratchets up the tension. Don't forget that the Russian people are hugely behind Putin, hugely value commemorations of their war dead, and they will note the snub too.
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I don't think we can get any really clear picture of how much the ordinary Russian people are behind Putin. With no free media and no free and fair elections, how can you tell? Vox popping people on the streets of Moscow isn't a very accurate gauge of public opinion, so what stats and data are we to use?
 
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