Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler [W:115]

[LeoVlaming]

It could mean that, or it could mean that the allies realized that Hitler was going to invade Soviet Union with or without a pact... Stalin warned the west about Germany, and wanted an alliance with western powers to take on Nazi Germany before the Molotov pact... Stalin even told them that if some sort of agreement is not made between western powers and the soviet union to take on the Nazis he would sign some sort of agreement with them

Stalin's main aim was to get Nazi Germany and the Western Powers to fight each other and to invade and occupy a certain number of countries along the Soviet Union's border.

 

[NoC_T]

Well, you aren't reading the same Euro-leftist trash that I read. It's not just Pete. Hell, look at the people that support him.

Since you're familiar with his posting history, you can't have failed to notice how his anti-British/American tendency has been noted and criticised by his fellow Europeans.

 

[Wiggen]

Ummmm?


Ummm so you say im "ignoring facts" or "uninformed" yet you agree with me?


I didnt ignore any of this....


What does this even mean?



By saying I believe Germany was going to invade the USSR no matter what, and that the USSR occupying East Poland deliberately or non-deliberately bought the Soviet Union some time means I'm a "defender of Stalin"?


Thats when it started for France and Britain.


What do we call the the remilitarization of the Rhineland? Occupation of Czechoslovakia? German direct involvement in the Spanish Civil War? Invasion of Austria?


Read what I typed: "USSR were basically at war in 1938."
Technically they were not because there was no formal decleration of War, but technically the US hasnt been at war since WW2, but the US is not the point.
I mean a conflict that really escalated in 1938, with direct battle that cost thousands and thousands of lives on both sides, seems like a war to me

Again, this blanket defense of the Soviet actions during World War II. Why? Why do you consider the non-aggression pact with Germany as inconsequential? The point I made that was, by signing the non-aggression pact, the Soviets were complicit in the conquering of most of Western Europe by the Nazis. Apparently that is too complex a statement for you to understand. Together, Hitler and Stalin carved up Poland. Does Katyn Forest Massacre mean anything to you? That's where the Soviets murdered captured Polish officers.

Again, you continue to worship at the alter of the second greatest butcher of the 20th century - Stalin.

And no, World War II did not start with the annexation of the Rhineland or the Japanese invasion of Manchuria. It started with Germany invading Poland.

And I'm still waiting for an explanation of your claim that Japan the Soviets were at war in 1938. This is news to me, and to any credible World War II historian.

 

[Wiggen]

Since you're familiar with his posting history, you can't have failed to notice how his anti-British/American tendency has been noted and criticised by his fellow Europeans.

No, I actually see him supported quite often by the likes of Andablue - another anti-American zealot - and others.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Again, this blanket defense of the Soviet actions during World War II. Why?

Where did I "defend" the Soviet Union?

Why do you consider the non-aggression pact with Germany as inconsequential?

Where did I call it "inconsequential"?

The point I made that was, by signing the non-aggression pact, the Soviets were complicit in the conquering of most of Western Europe by the Nazis.

How? Poland isnt even in Western Europe....

Apparently that is too complex a statement for you to understand.

No its not. I understand you just fine.

Together, Hitler and Stalin carved up Poland.

I know.

Does Katyn Forest Massacre mean anything to you? That's where the Soviets murdered captured Polish officers.

Yea. I know. Are you saying I ignore the brutality of Soviets occupation? Or excuse their actions and the occupation?

Again, you continue to worship at the alter of the second greatest butcher of the 20th century - Stalin.

Nowhere did I do that. I despise Stalin. I think he was authoritarian, brutal, power hungry, mad man. I think he was one the most brutal, and authoritarian leaders of all time, if not the most authoritarian leader of all time.

And no, World War II did not start with the annexation of the Rhineland or the Japanese invasion of Manchuria. It started with Germany invading Poland.

Why? Why just those two powers? I mean all the countries Germany invaded and occupied before the invasion of Poland were directly involved in the war... The invasion of Poland was a direct effect of Germany past military actions... I mean Japan and the Soviet border battles, and Japans invasion and occupation of parts of China were direct effects of Japanese aggression.. I mean we (the US) didnt even officially declare war until December 8, 1941.....

And I'm still waiting for an explanation of your claim that Japan the Soviets were at war in 1938. This is news to me, and to any credible World War II historian.

I just gave you several.... Soviet-Japanese Border Wars. Look it up.

 

[Jack Hays]

I just gave you several.... Soviet-Japanese Border Wars. Look it up.

The USSR did not declare war on Japan until 1945.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

The USSR did not declare war on Japan until 1945.

Response to this is in Post #249

 

[Jack Hays]

Response to this is in Post #249

You mean this?

Read what I typed: "USSR were basically at war in 1938."
Technically they were not because there was no formal decleration of War, but technically the US hasnt been at war since WW2, but the US is not the point.
I mean a conflict that really escalated in 1938, with direct battle that cost thousands and thousands of lives on both sides, seems like a war to me

Sorry, but your "war" was so nonexistent that Stalin withdrew 100 divisions from Siberia for his counteroffensive against the Germans in December 1941.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

You mean this?

Read what I typed: "USSR were basically at war in 1938."
Technically they were not because there was no formal decleration of War, but technically the US hasnt been at war since WW2, but the US is not the point.
I mean a conflict that really escalated in 1938, with direct battle that cost thousands and thousands of lives on both sides, seems like a war to me

Sorry, but your "war" was so nonexistent that Stalin withdrew 100 divisions from Siberia for his counteroffensive against the Germans in December 1941.

Why? Why only when Great Britain and France declared? Why only when Poland was invaded?

 

[Jack Hays]

Why? Why only when Great Britain and France declared? Why only when Poland was invaded?

Because Great Britain and France, with their Commonwealth and colonial dependencies, and Hitler's aggression in eastern Europe, made it a World War.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Because Great Britain and France, with their Commonwealth and colonial dependencies, and Hitler's aggression in eastern Europe, made it a World War.

But somehow that wasnt already going on?

 

[Jack Hays]

But somehow that wasnt already going on?

No, it was not.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

No, it was not.

So what was it before? The "European War"? The "European Conflict"?

 

[Jack Hays]

So what was it before? The "European War"? The "European Conflict"?

WW2 began with the German invasion of Poland in 1939. There was no World War before that.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

WW2 began with the German invasion of Poland in 1939. There was no World War before that.

There were conflicts going on at the time - like Japan's ongoing invasion of China - but it is as you said: there was no WWII before Germany invaded Poland, thereby forcing England and France to follow through on their threat to declare war if Germany did so.