Does the Death Penalty Teach Vengence and Violence?

[jamesrage]

but if you grow up thinking that the government does the right thing even just most of the time, what message does the death penalty send?
I'm not answering, just defining the question.

The question would be true if most of these criminals actually cared what went on in the world around them.

 

[jamesrage]

How many criminals do you know personally?

several

Follow up, why do you think that you're qualified in saying what criminals care about?

I grew up poor and hung out with criminals.

 

[MSgt]

then I apologize, you've made me look like an ass!

Bwahahaha! That was good. I'm going to remember to type this the next time I'm proved wrong. Hasn't happened yet, but it's bound to happen.

 

[kal-el]

Stooping? A killer kills out of rage or out of disorder. A jury of twelve civiliy decide guilt with the knowledge that the death penalty is the punishment. It's not quite stooping. It's justice. I say "CUT THAT CANCER!"

Yes, if you believe in the death penalty, then you must also accept the cold fact that innocents will be killed, as the justice system is'nt infallible. In the case of executing an innocent- it is murder by any standard, so technically the prosecutors, jurors, and governor who signs the death warrant should themselves be liable to prosecution and execution, yes?

 

[purplezen]

Yes, if you believe in the death penalty, then you must also accept the cold fact that innocents will be killed, as the justice system is'nt infallible. In the case of executing an innocent- it is murder by any standard, so technically the prosecutors, jurors, and governor who signs the death warrant should themselves be liable to prosecution and execution, yes?

Good point. Even if the sucker gets life, he can always be retried. The death penalty may put a damper on that option.

Undisputable murderer psychopaths though, I think its just they be eliminated. How can a people respect its justice system if it lets the undisputed lunatics killers live?

 

[alphieb]

My husband is an attorney. He states the system is inherently fallible.

 

[kal-el]

Undisputable murderer psychopaths though, I think its just they be eliminated. How can a people respect its justice system if it lets the undisputed lunatics killers live?

How can people respect it's justice system if it executes the undisputed lunatic killers? Why does the state have the right to kill someone? IMO by doing so, it's just stooping down to the killer's level.

 

[kal-el]

My husband is an attorney. He states the system is inherently fallible.

I hope you're kidding. Because I can cite numerous cases were people were proven innocent after execution. Hence, the justice system is far from fallible. It's man-made, synthetic, how can it be perfect?

 

[jamesrage]

How can people respect it's justice system if it executes the undisputed lunatic killers? Why does the state have the right to kill someone? IMO by doing so, it's just stooping down to the killer's level.

According to your logic the victims deserved death since you are stating that the state is stooping down to the killer's level.

Do you think these victims deserve what happened to them?

http://www.cracklog.com/three-year-old_raped_to_death
Sebokeng, South Africa - An alleged sadistic rapist and murderer this week spoiled the Human Rights Day mood for a KwaMasiza flats family in Sebokeng after he was caught red-handed with pants down next to the lifeless body of a three-year-old baby girl he had just raped and killed.

http://www.rense.com/general31/indiatortureandmurder.htm

In Naroda Patiya, one of the worst affected villages in the violence, the tribunal records that mobs even raped girls as young as 3 or 11 years. Babies were cut up and flung into pyres.

http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/files/dec/12/lobaido.htm
South Africa's slide into anarchy continued in recent months. Some of the crimes and events were so horrific that they made global headlines.

One such headline was the "baby rape" of a tiny infant in South Africa. Six men, aged between 24 and 66, are accused of raping and sodomizing the baby girl. The baby, who has been dubbed "Tshepang" ("Have Hope") to protect her identity, suffered injuries to her vagina and anus. Doctors say she is recovering slowly physically, but is likely to have long-term psychological trauma.

 

[kal-el]

Originally posted by jamesrage
According to your logic the victims deserved death since you are stating that the state is stooping down to the killer's level.

Do you think these victims deserve what happened to them?

Of course they didn't deserve to die. But they are 6 feet under, there's nothing anyone can do about it. I'm not going to spend my time concentrating on a bunch of corpses, I'd much rather concentrate on the living.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Originally Posted by galenrox
then I apologize, you've made me look like an ass!

Don't worry gunny has a tendancy to do this to liberals.

 

[kal-el]

Don't worry gunny has a tendancy to do this to liberals.

He has a tendency to do that to anyone, it doesn't matter their political ideology.:lol:

 

[jamesrage]

Of course they didn't deserve to die. But they are 6 feet under, there's nothing anyone can do about it. I'm not going to spend my time concentrating on a bunch of corpses, I'd much rather concentrate on the living.

It is easy to forget about the real victims when you do not have to look at them .Nice to see that you have compassion for a murderer, but **** the victims though.

 

[kal-el]

It is easy to forget about the real victims when you do not have to look at them .Nice to see that you have compassion for a murderer, but **** the victims though.

Dude, by concerning myself with the victims, what the **** could I possibly do to bring them back? That's right, nothing.:2razz:

 

[God-Is-Holy]

Dude, by concerning myself with the victims, what the **** could I possibly do to bring them back? That's right, nothing.:2razz:

Character counts. Not half-witty responses. Integrity is what's important.

 

[jamesrage]

Dude, by concerning myself with the victims, what the **** could I possibly do to bring them back? That's right, nothing.:2razz:

That is your problem,you feel sorry for scumbags but when it comes to the victims you are basicly saying **** them.Your problem is that you do not put yourself in the vicitm's shoes you ignor what happened to them and put ytour self in the shoes of the scumba with out taking into account what the murderer did.

 

[kal-el]

That is your problem,you feel sorry for scumbags but when it comes to the victims you are basicly saying **** them.Your problem is that you do not put yourself in the vicitm's shoes you ignor what happened to them and put ytour self in the shoes of the scumba with out taking into account what the murderer did.

Ha? What abut the killers familiey's? They r innocent. I hear no regard fro them on your side.

 

[kal-el]

Character counts. Not half-witty responses. Integrity is what's important.

Hlave-wiity responses? WTF?

 

[TimmyBoy]

That is your problem,you feel sorry for scumbags but when it comes to the victims you are basicly saying **** them.Your problem is that you do not put yourself in the vicitm's shoes you ignor what happened to them and put ytour self in the shoes of the scumba with out taking into account what the murderer did.

I think your problem as a conservative is that you don't have any humanity or compassion to you. Alot of conservatives I have met seem to care less about others and are violence prone people. I guess it makes sense since alot of them do support the death penalty. The death penalty has been proven to be ineffective as a deturrent. It is designed to provide the victim with a sense of revenge. Tooth for tooth eye for eye and everybody is blind. The death penalty, World Wars I and II, genocides across the globe represent the capacity of man to be blind and hateful and represents the possibility that this blindness and hate is what will eventually lead the human species to completely and utterly wiping itself into extinction and non-existance. The death penalty is nothing more than a barbaric act of vengence. It is not justice.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Government is also a teacher. It teaches by it's example. The Death Penalty certainly is not a good example. It teaches that revenge and violence is OK to solving one's problems. It is one of many reasons why the US is a violent and crime ridden society.

 

[jamesrage]

Ha? What abut the killers familiey's? They r innocent. I hear no regard fro them on your side.

What about the victim's family?You think it is just telling the family of the victim that they have to pay for the room and board of the person who murdered their family member for the rest of their lives?If these were Chinese,Arab or some other harsh prison system then go ahead and stick murderers behind bars for the rest of their lives.Prison is a ****en joke because the U.S. inmates live better than the people in third world countries.

 

[kal-el]

What about the victim's family?You think it is just telling the family of the victim that they have to pay for the room and board of the person who murdered their family member for the rest of their lives?If these were Chinese,Arab or some other harsh prison system then go ahead and stick murderers behind bars for the rest of their lives.Prison is a ****en joke because the U.S. inmates live better than the people in third world countries.

Hey, paying in to the state in order to support criminals for life is definetly cheaper than executing them, so you do not have a leg to stand on in that argument.:lol:

Well, of course they live better than inmates of 3rd world countries, everything is better than 3rd world countries. We're alot richer, hence we are able to benefit from technology first. It's always been like that. But, new technologies are usually so pricey, so these advances can later be available to everyone for less.

 

[jamesrage]

Hey, paying in to the state in order to support criminals for life is definetly cheaper than executing them, so you do not have a leg to stand on in that argument.:lol:
.

Prisons are being over crowed,so new prisons have to be built.http://www.sumeria.net/politics/IIB.html

On average, it costs $20,000 per year to maintain one prisoner, $100,000 to build a single prison cell, and $20,000 per year to staff a prison cell.

If these numbers are correct and someone serves a life sentence of 45 year and the time value of money is not taken into account the overall cost per lifer is $1,800,000 .

Where are your numbers to back up a claim it cost more to execute the scumbags you feel so ****en sorry for?

 

[tryreading]

Where are your numbers to back up a claim it cost more to execute the scumbags...?

One relevant number is that only about 10% of those sentenced to die are actually killed.

Here are some financial numbers.

Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution (Miami Herald). It costs six times more to execute a person in Florida than to incarcerate a prisoner for life with no parole.

In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years (Dallas Morning News).

A study found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life (Cook & Slawson. 1993). On a national basis, these figures translate to an extra cost of over $700 million dollars spent since 1976 on the death penalty.

The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee).

http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/deathpenalty.htm

 

[kal-el]

Prisons are being over crowed,so new prisons have to be built.http://www.sumeria.net/politics/IIB.html

That's exactly why I advocate sending hardcore affenders to 3rd world countries' prisons.

Where are your numbers to back up a claim it cost more to execute the scumbags you feel so ****en sorry for?

http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/cost.html
http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?=cost

The appeals process, and execution itself cost taxpayers more than incarcerating the prisoner's for life.

http://www.ipt.com/uuf/s020898.htm