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Does the Death Penalty Teach Vengence and Violence?

kal-el said:
Of course it's not. I was simply stating that the death penalty is clearly innacurate. Rich people almost always kill and walk, why? Because of money. Less fortunate people are usually **** out of luck.

So you take back your statement about the system being racist because it put you on the same boat as your Nazi buddy?

Well, I know you didn't find it on a abolishment site.
I did not find it on any pro-death penalty site.There is this thing called a search engine.With these search engines you can type in a few words and these sites containing words that typed in suddenly appear.




Well, I don't have crime rates of the entire world, but I did locate crime rates in the US: Avg. murder rates among pro death penalty states: 5.1 to 100,000 people, compared to the Avg. murders rates among non-death penalty states: 2.9 to 100,000 people. What a difference!
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=480

The only thing your chart proves is that executions are not effective if they are not carried out in a timely manner.
Do you think there will ever be cures for Cancer, AIDs, or all ills? Why is crime any different?

Crime is not a biological agent it is someone's chosen behavior.

We don't kill people with diseases, do we?

Liberalism kills people like Terry Schiavo and others in her condition.

Then why kill criminals?

Because the criminals chose to murder someone.genitics and enviromental factors did not make him murder someone in cold blood.Prison is not a medical facility to treat deseases.PRISON AND EXECUTIONS ARE A FORM OF PUNISHMENT NOT A CURE FOR BEING A SCUMBAG.


The thing about you pro-death penalty mental derectics is that you all seem to be trigger happy.

We live in a society,there are rules to live by in society.You break those rules and you suffer the consiquences.Executions and prisons are ment to punish the guilty.Prisons a re not a 12 step program

Who the hell granted us the stature of judge, jury, and executioner?

JUdging by that idiotic stamtent you think we should just let murderers go and not make them serve no time at all or pay a price for commiting their crime.

Whoever executes is just as guilty as the killer.


So you are saying the murderer's vicitms are not innocent?
 
God-Is-Holy said:
God is merely a riddle to you because you don't understand Him or His holy word. This is common among sinners who don't know God.

That's a shame and a sin. Nonetheless, your excuse does not alleviate the fact that you will be held accountable for your decisions, both in this life and the next.

Didn't say God is a riddle to me. I said you were creating a riddle, saying the Bible doesn't mean what it says. I said you should change your screen name to 'God is a Riddle' from 'God is Holy' because you use contradiction to rebut plain language.

I made no excuse for anything. I made a statement about my beliefs. Please try to understand what a person is saying before responding. Communication is more straightforward that way.
 
jamesrage said:
So you take back your statement about the system being racist because it put you on the same boat as your Nazi buddy?

That's a big negative there. How, pry tell, does the fact that the death penalty is racist, have anything in common with Hitler? You are not making sense here.

I did not find it on any pro-death penalty site.There is this thing called a search engine.With these search engines you can type in a few words and these sites containing words that typed in suddenly appear.

No **** man. When you do a search, numerous different sites appear, pro-death sites, and non-death sites. You're sure intelligent, did you by any chance receive a nobel prize?



Well, I don't have crime rates of the entire world, but I did locate crime rates in the US: Avg. murder rates among pro death penalty states: 5.1 to 100,000 people, compared to the Avg. murders rates among non-death penalty states: 2.9 to 100,000 people. What a difference!
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=480

The only thing your chart proves is that executions are not effective if they are not carried out in a timely manner.

Why do you say that? Cause it only goes back to 2001? executions are not effective if they are not carried out in a timely manner.- How did you come to this conclusion? My links state no such thing. Lying is an integrity issue, man.



Crime is not a biological agent it is someone's chosen behavior.

Crime is a sickness. When we can cure this, we won't be having this discussion.


Liberalism kills people like Terry Schiavo and others in her condition.

Negtive again. Deja Vu buddy. I beleive the President and Congress attempted to meddle in her affair. It's not the Presiden't business, or Congress's. How exactly does Liberalism kill people? Please explain.


Because the criminals chose to murder someone.genitics and enviromental factors did not make him murder someone in cold blood.Prison is not a medical facility to treat deseases.PRISON AND EXECUTIONS ARE A FORM OF PUNISHMENT NOT A CURE FOR BEING A SCUMBAG.

That takes us back to the "eye for eye" argument. genetics and environmental factors did not make him murder someone in cold blood- then what made the state murder someone in cold blood? Prison is not a medical facility to treat diseases- again, no ****. You're so smart, prison is a place to keep the criminal element seperate from society.




We live in a society,there are rules to live by in society.You break those rules and you suffer the consiquences.Executions and prisons are ment to punish the guilty.Prisons a re not a 12 step program

Yes, only the strong survive, or might is right. We live in a society, there are rules to live by- yes, and by the state killing its citizens opposed to helping them, it will further brutalize society. Dude, this isn't the wild west.:lol:




JUdging by that idiotic stamtent you think we should just let murderers go and not make them serve no time at all or pay a price for commiting their crime.

Wow, you're amazing! Would you mind telling me exactly how the hell you came up with that absurd statement?



So you are saying the murderer's vicitms are not innocent?

Once again, how the hell did you come up with this, try actually thinking before typing.:lol:
 
Death penalty verdicts for murders with regards to race........ there seems to be a discrepancy in prosecutions holding variables like type of crime, severity, number etc. accounted for, especially if one looks at the race of the victim.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/racialprejudices.html)

In a 1990 report, the non-partisan U.S. General Accounting Office found "a pattern of evidence indicating racial disparities in the charging, sentencing, and imposition of the death penalty." The study concluded that a defendant was several times more likely to be sentenced to death if the murder victim was white. This confirms the findings of many other studies that, holding all other factors constant, the single most reliable predictor of whether someone will be sentenced to death is the race of the victim.

Underlying the statistical evidence is the differential treatment of African-Americans at every turn. From initial charging decisions to plea bargaining to jury sentencing, African-Americans are treated more harshly when they are defendants, and their lives are accorded less value when they are victims. Furthermore, all-white or virtually all-white juries are still commonplace in many localities.


As for prosecuting innocent people on death row I believe close to 100 people have been exonerated since 1973 only because of good science, not good legal defense.

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/dnaevid.txt

Here are case studies detailing the exoneration of death row inmates based on DNA evidence.

So yes, there seems to be a non trivial amount of innocent peole who make it to death row.
 
bandaidwoman said:
Death penalty verdicts for murders with regards to race........ there seems to be a discrepancy in prosecutions holding variables like type of crime, severity, number etc. accounted for, especially if one looks at the race of the victim.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/racialprejudices.html)




As for prosecuting innocent people on death row I believe close to 100 people have been exonerated since 1973 only because of good science, not good legal defense.

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/dnaevid.txt

Here are case studies detailing the exoneration of death row inmates based on DNA evidence.

So yes, there seems to be a non trivial amount of innocent peole who make it to death row.

It was something I learned as a cop. The system does need some reform. I wore my badge and was proud to wear it. Uphold the law and protect the innocent. Never did I realize that I would have to put my life on the line to protect the innocent and it was to protect the innocent from the system and not a criminal gang or thug or robbery or some other criminal. It was the ultimate test of integrity. I look back and I am glad to have survived and even glad when faced with destruction of my future that I still protected the innocent and never surrendered the my integrity and most importantly, the integrity of the law and the badge that represented the law. In the end, my future was intact, but it was a scary ordeal. People don't realize what cops go through sometimes. And they also don't realize that innocent people do go to jail for crimes they don't commit. I am glad, that I am able to look back and be able to honestly say, that I did the right thing, that I always told the truth, always set a good example, always followed the law and protected the innocent. That is what makes the badge. But you know, a good cop will go through hell in doing so. I think the bad part was that it re-inforced my distrust of the system that was fostered while I was a soldier in Bosnia. But in all fairness, I think most people have tried very hard to make the system work properly and fairly, though sometimes, it doesn't happen that way.

To me, it is the people who wear the badge who determine how good the system really is. So many lives depend on the question? Does he, with the badge, have integrity? You best hope and pray that he/she does. To integrity is the best moral characterstic to have and it is very difficult to find in people. Those who do have it, are a gift to others. I give my utmost respect to all those in Law Enforcement.
 
kal-el said:
That's a big negative there. How, pry tell, does the fact that the death penalty is racist, have anything in common with Hitler? You are not making sense here.


You have not proven the death penalty is racistThe only thing you have proven is that there might be a finiancial difference between those who get the death penalty and those who do not.So just spewing out that the death penalty is racist with out any facts suggest that you beleave that black people are being executed due to some preconcieved notion that you beleave


No **** man. When you do a search, numerous different sites appear, pro-death sites, and non-death sites. You're sure intelligent, did you by any chance receive a nobel prize?

You kept asking me if I got the inflation calculators of pro-death penalty sites.That tells me that you must have flunked reading and you are having a buddy read this to you or you did not bother looking at the sites that had the
inflation calulators.


Cause it only goes back to 2001?
Did you even look at the picture? LOOK ON THE RIGHT RIGHT HAND CORNER OF THE PICTURE.DO see the part that says
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executionmap_2005.gif
executions are not effective if they are not carried out in a timely manner.- How did you come to this conclusion? My links state no such thing. Lying is an integrity issue, man.
Because it takes forever to execute someone,by the time someone is executed most people except the vitcims have forgotten about their crimes and do not really know who the individual is.

Crime is a sickness. When we can cure this, we won't be having this discussion.

You keep telling yourself that.I live in the real world.


That takes us back to the "eye for eye" argument. genetics and environmental factors did not make him murder someone in cold blood- then what made the state murder someone in cold blood? Prison is not a medical facility to treat diseases- again, no ****. You're so smart, prison is a place to keep the criminal element seperate from society.

Prisons are to punish people.That is why they are there in the first place.


Yes, only the strong survive, or might is right. We live in a society, there are rules to live by- yes, and by the state killing its citizens opposed to helping them, it will further brutalize society. Dude, this isn't the wild west.:lol:

People go to prisons and or be execurted for punishments.Not to be ****in cured.

Wow, you're amazing! Would you mind telling me exactly how the hell you came up with that absurd statement?
:
Who the hell granted us the stature of judge, jury, and executioner?



Once again, how the hell did you come up with this, try actually thinking before typing.:lol:

You asinie statement that sugges that if we kill a murderer we are as guilty as he is.The murderer savegely murderered a innocent person.A murderer is not innocent.
 
jamesrage said:
You have not proven the death penalty is racistThe only thing you have proven is that there might be a finiancial difference between those who get the death penalty and those who do not.So just spewing out that the death penalty is racist with out any facts suggest that you beleave that black people are being executed due to some preconcieved notion that you beleave

According to DOJ figures, nearly 80% of inmates on federal death row are black, hispanic, or from another minority group. Minorities account for 74% of the cases in which federal prosecutors seek the death penalty.
http://www.nodeathpenalty.org/newab017/



You kept asking me if I got the inflation calculators of pro-death penalty sites.That tells me that you must have flunked reading and you are having a buddy read this to you or you did not bother looking at the sites that had the
inflation calulators.

Why change the subject? I believe we were talking about search engines? Yep, you're right, I did flunk reading and I do have a buddy reading this to me. I'll tell ya what, you'd give Einstein a run for his money.




Did you even look at the picture? LOOK ON THE RIGHT RIGHT HAND CORNER OF THE PICTURE.DO see the part that says
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executionmap_2005.gif

Ok, I apologize for that blemish.

Because it takes forever to execute someone,by the time someone is executed most people except the vitcims have forgotten about their crimes and do not really know who the individual is.

Correct, so what's the point in the death penalty?




You keep telling yourself that.I live in the real world.

Yes, but you've said the exact same thing, if 30 years ago, I told you I'd be typing on a portable computer right now.



Prisons are to punish people.That is why they are there in the first place.

If that's the case, why do they have various medical centers, libraries, acess to the internet, etc.? That dosen't sound to harsh of a punishment to me.




People go to prisons and or be execurted for punishments.Not to be ****in cured.

Of course they do. We can't cure the illness that is crime yet. I hate to repeat myself, but I'm telling you, you'd give Einstein a run for his money.


:
Who the hell granted us the stature of judge, jury, and executioner?

Wow, calm down there. Forgot to change your pad?



You asinie statement that sugges that if we kill a murderer we are as guilty as he is.The murderer savegely murderered a innocent person.A murderer is not innocent.

No, neither is the person who pulls the trigger, or throws the switch.
 
tryreading said:
Didn't say God is a riddle to me. I said you were creating a riddle, saying the Bible doesn't mean what it says. I said you should change your screen name to 'God is a Riddle' from 'God is Holy' because you use contradiction to rebut plain language.
It doesn't matter what you or I say. It matters what God says.

I made no excuse for anything. I made a statement about my beliefs. Please try to understand what a person is saying before responding. Communication is more straightforward that way.
That's still no excuse for sin.
 
I don't see how people can say the Death Penalty teach people to be more violent and vengful. It is like saying violent videogames make children more violent. Violences and vengence are "learned" through morals and morals are more influenced by other people not by the death penalty.
 
kal-el said:
If that's the case, why do they ha... you wold be able to remember what you typed.
 
God-Is-Holy said:
It doesn't matter what you or I say. It matters what God says.

That's still no excuse for sin.

Sure matters to me what I say. Speak for yourself.

And, again, I make no excuses, whether I 'sin' or not.

If you have no more to offer here than preaching, you're not contributing much, in my humble opinion.
 
Timmy boy said:
I think your problem as a conservative is that you don't have any humanity or compassion to you. Alot of conservatives I have met seem to care less about others and are violence prone people. I guess it makes sense since alot of them do support the death penalty.

This is just useless stereotyping.

Timmy boy said:
The death penalty has been proven to be ineffective as a deturrent.

Untrue, it is a very effective deturrent, but so is ripping limbs off/killing family members/disemboweling but that doesn't make them morally right.

It is an effective deturrent (to say otherwise makes little sense) but that fact alone doesn't justify it.

Timmy Boy said:
It is designed to provide the victim with a sense of revenge. Tooth for tooth eye for eye and everybody is blind.

Mostly true, I especially like the quote ripped off from Gandhi.

Timmy boy said:
The death penalty, World Wars I and II, genocides across the globe represent the capacity of man to be blind and hateful and represents the possibility that this blindness and hate is what will eventually lead the human species to completely and utterly wiping itself into extinction and non-existance. The death penalty is nothing more than a barbaric act of vengence. It is not justice.

Again, you pass into "not cool" territory. People put people to death because they think that it is morally dependable. Capital punishment is not comparable to genocide and war because people do them from different reasons. People don't want to put people to death for the same reasons that people go to war, or the same reasons that genocide is committed.

I agree that capital punishment is wrong, but I disagree with left wing (and right wing for that matter) political garbage.

Timmy boy said:
Government is also a teacher. It teaches by it's example. The Death Penalty certainly is not a good example. It teaches that revenge and violence is OK to solving one's problems. It is one of many reasons why the US is a violent and crime ridden society.

I want to agree with you so bad, you are arguing my side! I just can't agree with your leftist political rantings.

jamesrage said:
If these numbers are correct and someone serves a life sentence of 45 year and the time value of money is not taken into account the overall cost per lifer is $1,800,000 .

Where are your numbers to back up a claim it cost more to execute the scumbags you feel so ****en sorry for?

I don't think that money is comparable to a human life, and it should not be considered when deciding whether to take a life or not, it's just too demoralizing.

Jamesrage said:
I realy doubt a murderer's familiy member is crying over the death of a murderer.

I don't see how this is relevant. I won't cry if someone I don't know dies, does that make them worthless?

The point was that the prisoner's family would suffer, thereby increasing the family's suffering for what? Revenge? Justice?

jamesrage said:
Let me explain a life sentence to you.I kill your brother and or sister.Now you get to pay for my room and board for the rest of my life plus the wieghts I get to use, the books I get to read,the legal advice I get to use,internet,video games,television and so on.

All of which can be changed without killing anyone. Why is there no middle ground with you people? More political garbage (of the opposite side of the political spectrum than last time though). We either keep the murderer in prison comfortably or we kill them?

You can take away the comfortable lodgings if you want, or any number of things to alleviate this problem. Your argument is flawed.

God is Holy said:
Romans 13
1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
(NAS95)

Proverbs 21
1 The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.
(NAS95)

Proverbs 16
33 The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD.
(NAS95)

[next post]
Numbers 35
30 'If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death at the evidence of witnesses, but no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
31 'Moreover, you shall not take ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death.
(NAS95)

Deuteronomy 19
21 "Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
(NAS95)

Exodus 21
23 "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
(NAS95)

Why should a book I make be the governing text of our nation and not yours? What makes yours better?

jamesrage said:
SO you think it is okay for the to have televisions,education,internet,free legal advice,sex changes(google it before questioning me), and so on.If you were from Sanfrancisco the only difference between prison and Safransicko is the fact you can not walk outside the prison.As far as I am concerned the only thing prisoners need is brebread,water and hard labor.

Ah, walk the middle ground! See what it's like before deciding anything.

jamesrage said:
The thing about you anti-death penalty feel sorry for vermin people is that you could care less how guilty the individual is.There could be video evidence,confession,finger prints on the weapon and ballistics test to confirm the weapon used and so on and you feel sorry for vermin anti-death penalty people would still want him to live off tax payer dollar and you would help lobby for laws making it more costly to execute him.

The question is: is it moral to kill someone in cold blood for any reason (as apposed to "hot blood" where there is heated action going on, such as being attacked or being surprised)?

kal-el said:
Why not? I don't know about internet, and others. Just the basic necessaties. But society's safety can be assured with a life sentence without parole, hence the criminal will never return to society.

Ah, more refreshing middle ground.

God is Holy said:
God is merely a riddle to you because you don't understand Him or His holy word. This is common among sinners who don't know God.

How do you know that you're not the sinner and I'm the one who interprets God's words correctly?

"Thou salt not kill" I'm gona have to say... this means you're not supposed to kill people... but I guess commandments can be broken if you have a really good reason eh? So what is the Bible for again?

jamesrage said:
So you take back your statement about the system being racist because it put you on the same boat as your Nazi buddy?

I like political garbage.

jamesrage said:
Liberalism kills people like Terry Schiavo and others in her condition.

And a little more...

jamesrage said:
JUdging by that idiotic stamtent you think we should just let murderers go and not make them serve no time at all or pay a price for commiting their crime.

Holy crap is there more...

jamesrage said:
So you are saying the murderer's vicitms are not innocent?

Oh yeah, theres more.

God is Holy said:
I made no excuse for anything. I made a statement about my beliefs. Please try to understand what a person is saying before responding. Communication is more straightforward that way.

I think that I used that exact phrase ("Please try to understand") when talking to God-is-Holy in another thread... Yeah he didn't listen.

He lives in his own world, where no one can challenge him, and arguments against him can simply be ignored... I envy him in a way...

kal-el said:
That's a big negative there. How, pry tell, does the fact that the death penalty is racist, have anything in common with Hitler? You are not making sense here.

But it sure sounded cool :p Attempts to associate a opponent debater with Hitler or Nazis is not new, people do it all the time when the can't think of anything to say (Example: "Oh yeah... well... well... You're a freaking Nazi is what! What now?! What now Nazi?!").

Oh, it never gets old.

kal-el [talking about jamesrage) said:
Once again, how the hell did you come up with this, try actually thinking before typing.

Okay, some of it gets old.

kal-el said:
Wow, calm down there. Forgot to change your pad?

Unnecessary.

God is Holy said:
It doesn't matter what you or I say. It matters what God says.

I tried goggling for some type of audio file for when God said this, but you know what, I couldn't find it... so, uh, yeah.

God is Holy said:
That's still no excuse for sin.

If I typed: "lala la la la lala" as my response to your post, you wouldn't know the difference, would you...
 
Yeah man, whatever you say, I am sure all of those innocent people on death row makes you feel good about the death penalty. You wouldn't have it any other way. The need to fulfill the desire for revenge rather than true justice.
 
Timmy Boy said:
Yeah man, whatever you say, I am sure all of those innocent people on death row makes you feel good about the death penalty. You wouldn't have it any other way. The need to fulfill the desire for revenge rather than true justice.
Are you addressing me?
 
-Demosthenes- said:
Are you addressing me?

Yeah, I am addressing you. Who else would I be addressing?
 
Most of what you say about the death penalty is completely and totally false. For example, the death penalty is a deturrent. WRONG. Statistics and countless studies have shown time and again that the death penalty is not a deturrent at all. I think, that the death penalty helps to create and foster an enviornment where crime becomes more violent and prevalent. Most of your counter arguments to my arguments are also wrong and patently untrue and have no basis in fact. I just think I am simply wasting my time even bothering to talk to you. We can't agree and I certainly am not going to change my position because I know I am right.
 
Okay, if this was directed toward me...
Timmy Boy said:
Yeah man, whatever you say, I am sure all of those innocent people on death row makes you feel good about the death penalty. You wouldn't have it any other way. The need to fulfill the desire for revenge rather than true justice.
When did I say I felt good about the death penalty? I believe I said exactly:
I agree that capital punishment is wrong, but I disagree with left wing (and right wing for that matter) political garbage.
So, I read through your posts, and tries to find out your arguments. Is that so much to ask for in others?

TimmyBoy said:
Most of what you say about the death penalty is completely and totally false. For example, the death penalty is a deturrent. WRONG. Statistics and countless studies have shown time and again that the death penalty is not a deturrent at all. I think, that the death penalty helps to create and foster an enviornment where crime becomes more violent and prevalent. Most of your counter arguments to my arguments are also wrong and patently untrue and have no basis in fact. I just think I am simply wasting my time even bothering to talk to you. We can't agree and I certainly am not going to change my position because I know I am right.

1) I think I've already established that you have read little or none of my actual post (which is cool, just don't expect me to have much to say back). Why is there nothing specific to my arguments? Why do you continue to use political garbage (the argument that the extreme left or right tells you to think)?

2) To say that something is true is one thing, to actual say why is better, to give examples or evidence is even better. You have only done the first (and tried a little of the second), so there's really nothing I can argue with you.

3) And, if you'd read my post you would have found:
I agree that capital punishment is wrong, but I disagree with left wing (and right wing for that matter) political garbage.
 
-Demosthenes- said:
Okay, if this was directed toward me...

When did I say I felt good about the death penalty? I believe I said exactly:

So, I read through your posts, and tries to find out your arguments. Is that so much to ask for in others?



1) I think I've already established that you have read little or none of my actual post (which is cool, just don't expect me to have much to say back). Why is there nothing specific to my arguments? Why do you continue to use political garbage (the argument that the extreme left or right tells you to think)?

2) To say that something is true is one thing, to actual say why is better, to give examples or evidence is even better. You have only done the first (and tried a little of the second), so there's really nothing I can argue with you.

3) And, if you'd read my post you would have found:

Yeah it was directed at you. Let me correct you on a few things. You came on without doing your research nor you yourself havent' provided evidence to back up your claims, why should I or anybody else take you seriously? But I do know I am right. Here is where you are wrong and let me quote you exactly:

Untrue, it is a very effective deturrent, but so is ripping limbs off/killing family members/disemboweling but that doesn't make them morally right.

It is an effective deturrent (to say otherwise makes little sense) but that fact alone doesn't justify it.

Here, you are wrong and so I am restating my position that it is not an effective deturrent. Never has been, never will be. Their is plenty of evidence to back that up as well. These are your exact words and you are wrong. What!? Do you think the death penalty deturred the Columbine shooters? Do you think the death penalty deturred the hijackers who crashed planes into the WTC and killed 3,000 people? Wrong buddy. You are wrong and you didn't do your homework. But these are not good example. The death penalty has been proven time and time again to be an ineffective deturrent, yet you stated it was an effective deturrent and I know damn good well it is not. I am interested in seeing your evidence. I can easily google up evidence and post it here, but seeing that you don't provide your own evidence, I think I am just wasting my time with you. The evidence that we discussed in some of our classrooms and some of what I learned in the military from experience also taught me that government DOES teach by example. Where did you think Timothy McVeigh learned to kill those 300 people in Oaklohoma City? And for that matter, why do you think Timothy McVeigh called the children killed in the day care of the Oaklohoma City Building "colateral damage." Timothy became the man he became, because he followed the example of the government. On his execution day, he refused to apologize for his actions. Where do you think Osama Bin Laden learned to commit his terrorist attacks? He learned from the terrorism of the US government. Then you want to call why I have my point of view as " left wing garabage." You were ignorant to where I was coming from and so you deserved the response you got. Try not to read people's minds. As soon as I saw your first response to one part of my post, you are right, I didn't read the rest of your post because you automatically hit my "off" switch because of your approach to responding to other people made me not really listen to you.
 
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TimmyBoy said:
Here, you are wrong and so I am restating my position that it is not an effective deturrent. Never has been, never will be. Their is plenty of evidence to back that up as well. These are your exact words and you are wrong. What!? Do you think the death penalty deturred the Columbine shooters? Do you think the death penalty deturred the hijackers who crashed planes into the WTC and killed 3,000 people? Wrong buddy. You are wrong and you didn't do your homework. But these are not good example. The death penalty has been proven time and time again to be an ineffective deturrent, yet you stated it was an effective deturrent and I know damn good well it is not. I am interested in seeing your evidence. I can easily google up evidence and post it here, but seeing that you don't provide your own evidence, I think I am just wasting my time with you. The evidence that we discussed in some of our classrooms and some of what I learned in the military from experience also taught me that government DOES teach by example. Where did you think Timothy McVeigh learned to kill those 300 people in Oaklohoma City? And for that matter, why do you think Timothy McVeigh called the children killed in the day care of the Oaklohoma City Building "colateral damage." Timothy became the man he became, because he followed the example of the government. On his execution day, he refused to apologize for his actions. Where do you think Osama Bin Laden learned to commit his terrorist attacks? He learned from the terrorism of the US government. Then you want to call why I have my point of view as " left wing garabage." You were ignorant to where I was coming from and so you deserved the response you got. Try not to read people's minds. As soon as I saw your first response to one part of my post, you are right, I didn't read the rest of your post because you automatically hit my "off" switch because of your approach to responding to other people made me not really listen to you.
First of all, apology accepted. I know it can be hard to say sometimes, but I'm glad that we got that out of the way (it's late here and I feel like patronizing tonight, sry).

All morality aside, if the government says that if you do something wrong then they might kill you, then less people will do things wrong. You're trying to tell me that there would be the same amount of crime in anarchy as there would be with a death penalty? That's when you confuse me, with your weird leftist logic. Please use normal logic, it'll help me be able to respond.

Anyway, no one claimed that it would deter everyone, no deterrent can. Some are just going to do what their going to do, and nothing will stop them. This doesn't mean that it doesn't stop some people from doing bad things.

If your leftist logic does not allow you to agree with me, I understand. Just know that I agreed with you opinion on capital punishment, just not one the illogical ranting that followed.
 
-Demosthenes- said:
First of all, apology accepted. I know it can be hard to say sometimes, but I'm glad that we got that out of the way (it's late here and I feel like patronizing tonight, sry).

All morality aside, if the government says that if you do something wrong then they might kill you, then less people will do things wrong. You're trying to tell me that there would be the same amount of crime in anarchy as there would be with a death penalty? That's when you confuse me, with your weird leftist logic. Please use normal logic, it'll help me be able to respond.

Anyway, no one claimed that it would deter everyone, no deterrent can. Some are just going to do what their going to do, and nothing will stop them. This doesn't mean that it doesn't stop some people from doing bad things.

If your leftist logic does not allow you to agree with me, I understand. Just know that I agreed with you opinion on capital punishment, just not one the illogical ranting that followed.

I am not apologizing to you. You deserved the response you got. You should be apologizing to me and a few other members of the forum. I haven't read the rest of your post because you wrote "apology accepted." And I won't pay attention to your posts either. I have no idea what you posted after "apology accepted." I don't have time to waste with rude people such as yourself.
 
I am not apologizing to you. You deserved the response you got. You should be apologizing to me and a few other members of the forum. I haven't read the rest of your post because you wrote "apology accepted." And I won't pay attention to your posts either. I have no idea what you posted after "apology accepted." I don't have time to waste with rude people such as yourself.
Okay, I'm sorry, I was just trying to lighten the mood. And to be fair you probably should read the last paragraph... or the last two sentences of the second :D And I'd like to point out that it is very late right now, I'm trying my best here.
 
-Demosthenes- said:
Okay, I'm sorry, I was just trying to lighten the mood. And to be fair you probably should read the last paragraph... or the last two sentences of the second :D And I'd like to point out that it is very late right now, I'm trying my best here.

I got all night. I am up late coding, taking breaks in between. Now, you are most certainly are politely entitled to disagree and I will listen. I still feel very sure that I am right. That the death penalty does teach vengence and violence and that government does teach by example. But I will accept your apology since I am a reasonable fellow. And I am sorry, if I didn't read all of your post. Just that when I run into certain attitudes they have a tendancy to turn my listening ears to "off."
 
Timmy Boy said:
I got all night. I am up late coding, taking breaks in between. Now, you are most certainly are politely entitled to disagree and I will listen. I still feel very sure that I am right. That the death penalty does teach vengence and violence and that government does teach by example. But I will accept your apology since I am a reasonable fellow. And I am sorry, if I didn't read all of your post. Just that when I run into certain attitudes they have a tendancy to turn my listening ears to "off."
I did say a lot of thing that could be offensive, and I really am sorry about that. I'm glad that we can talk about it, but unfortunately I can't stay up much longer, I have to take a test tomorrow and I think I may need to go to bed, I would stay if I could, but I can't. I look for to tomorrow when we can continue this.
 
-Demosthenes- said:
I did say a lot of thing that could be offensive, and I really am sorry about that. I'm glad that we can talk about it, but unfortunately I can't stay up much longer, I have to take a test tomorrow and I think I may need to go to bed, I would stay if I could, but I can't. I look for to tomorrow when we can continue this.

It's np. I have alot of coding to do as well.
 
Hey, I'm back. Where exactly did we disagree?
 
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