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Does the Death Penalty Teach Vengence and Violence?

TimmyBoy

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I was wondering if people thought the Death penalty teaches venegence and violence? I propose that this is exactly what the death penalty does.
 

Calm2Chaos

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TimmyBoy said:
I was wondering if people thought the Death penalty teaches venegence and violence? I propose that this is exactly what the death penalty does.
If you can name me one person that was killed using the death penalty, and then became vengefull or violent then you may have something. People have freewill and freedom to decide, least in most cases. How exactly does this make a person violent or vengefull if they weren't prior?
 

TimmyBoy

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Calm2Chaos said:
If you can name me one person that was killed using the death penalty, and then became vengefull or violent then you may have something. People have freewill and freedom to decide, least in most cases. How exactly does this make a person violent or vengefull if they weren't prior?
I am not an expert on the death penalty. It seems though that the death penalty teaches vengence and violence. The idea of the justice system is to bring true justice, however, vengence is not just and it certainly is not right. Two wrongs have never made a right. I think the fact that the justice system uses the death penalty is a reflection of America as a blood nation, a nation based on survival of the fittest, violence and vengence. The use of the death penalty also sets a bad example to the rest of society.
 

Calm2Chaos

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TimmyBoy said:
I am not an expert on the death penalty. It seems though that the death penalty teaches vengence and violence. The idea of the justice system is to bring true justice, however, vengence is not just and it certainly is not right. Two wrongs have never made a right. I think the fact that the justice system uses the death penalty is a reflection of America as a blood nation, a nation based on survival of the fittest, violence and vengence. The use of the death penalty also sets a bad example to the rest of society.
Why doesn't it surprise me that you would see the US as a blood nation :roll:

The death penalty has been around in many form for many years. And being 37, I don't feel violent nor vengeful because of it. I don't know ayone that does for that matter. I am not sure why I should have to pay 1000's of dollars to make a prisoner comfortable in jail for the rest of his life? They get 3 hots and a cot, TV, access to other activities and education that some people not in jail don't have access to. If your willing to take someones life without consideration, then you should be willing to forfiet your own to pay for your crimes.
 

TimmyBoy

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Calm2Chaos said:
Why doesn't it surprise me that you would see the US as a blood nation :roll:

The death penalty has been around in many form for many years. And being 37, I don't feel violent nor vengeful because of it. I don't know ayone that does for that matter. I am not sure why I should have to pay 1000's of dollars to make a prisoner comfortable in jail for the rest of his life? They get 3 hots and a cot, TV, access to other activities and education that some people not in jail don't have access to. If your willing to take someones life without consideration, then you should be willing to forfiet your own to pay for your crimes.
I didn't see my country, the US, as a blood nation, until I went to Bosnia and started to see other parts of the world and get a glimpse of some US actions abroad and to see the reality of the situations without having it being filtered by the news media. When I was going through mandate school for being a police officer, some of the trainers talked about how the US is more violent than alot of other industrial nations. We also have the highest prison population in the world.
 

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Originally Posted by TimmyBoy
I was wondering if people thought the Death penalty teaches venegence and violence? I propose that this is exactly what the death penalty does.
I do not realy think the death penalty teaches anything.BY the time a individual is executed everyone has aleady forgotten about the individual and his crimes.I see executions as a ultimate punishment because there are other things besides murder that can put a individual behaind bars for life.
If they speed up the death penalty then it make make a effective deterant,but because of all the anti-death penalty ****s out there it's effectiveness has been reduced or turned into a joke.


. We also have the highest prison population in the world.
Is that because we have more crime than the other countries?

Is it perhaps our justice system is a joke?You get sentenced to death and about 7-15 years later you finally get executed.

It is because of all the nonsense that goes on to see if someone is guilty or innocent and even if they are guilty they have to see if the scumbag is mentally competent to stand trial?

Our prisons are a joke,the scariest thing about going to the pen is becoming big bubba's girlfriend,not the loss of freedom,not the loss of rights and not the loss of simple pleasures like tv,cable,internet, and so on.

Our prison population lives better than law abiding citizens in third world countries.Exlpain how that is justice?
 

George_Washington

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The Death penalty does not teach violence.

What it does teach is that there are harsh penalties for breaking the law and it shows the punk criminals out there that the people aren't going to take any of their B.S.

In terms of how we treat criminals, we are probably the most or at least one of the most lenient countries in the world.

I say let's change that.

I think we should take a clue from Middle Eastern countries that the dealth penalty not only works but works well. One thing I like about Middle Eastern countries is that they aren't afraid to prosecute criminals like we are over here. In Saudi Arabia, if you steal, you get your hand cut off. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?

I say we not only keep imploring the death penalty but also bring back the idea of having public executions like they used to have traditionally in old Europe. I think that would put a healthy fear into people not to break the law. It would also let the people witness the deaths of these violent bastards and a healthy respect for the state.

I also think for people who do committ the most horrific crimes such as muiltiple murders, brutal rapes of children, etc, we need to make them die in a much more painful way. The "lethal injection" method is far too humane for these people. I say let's bring back the guilotine or something.
 

TimmyBoy

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George_Washington said:
The Death penalty does not teach violence.

What it does teach is that there are harsh penalties for breaking the law and it shows the punk criminals out there that the people aren't going to take any of their B.S.

In terms of how we treat criminals, we are probably the most or at least one of the most lenient countries in the world.

I say let's change that.

I think we should take a clue from Middle Eastern countries that the dealth penalty not only works but works well. One thing I like about Middle Eastern countries is that they aren't afraid to prosecute criminals like we are over here. In Saudi Arabia, if you steal, you get your hand cut off. Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?

I say we not only keep imploring the death penalty but also bring back the idea of having public executions like they used to have traditionally in old Europe. I think that would put a healthy fear into people not to break the law. It would also let the people witness the deaths of these violent bastards and a healthy respect for the state.

I also think for people who do committ the most horrific crimes such as muiltiple murders, brutal rapes of children, etc, we need to make them die in a much more painful way. The "lethal injection" method is far too humane for these people. I say let's bring back the guilotine or something.
Their are alot of European countries which do not use the death penalty and their murder and crime rates are much lower than that of the United States. I do not know if that has anything to do with the fact that some of these European countries have a more socialistic economic system or and have outlawed the death penalty. Their could be other factors besides that contribute to their low murder rates.
 

TimmyBoy

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I am opposed to the death penalty because an eye for an eye makes everybody blind and two wrongs do not make a right. It also sets a bad example that violence and vengance is OK. Governments are violent institutions which seem to set a bad example to the people. I would like to quote infamous terrorist Timothy McVeigh after he was sentenced to death, their is alot of truth in his statement no matter what you might think of him:

"If the court please, I wish to use the words of Justice Brandeis in Olmstead to speak for me. He wrote, 'Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher for good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.' That's all I have."

-Timothy McVeigh
 

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TimmyBoy said:
Their are alot of European countries which do not use the death penalty and their murder and crime rates are much lower than that of the United States. I do not know if that has anything to do with the fact that some of these European countries have a more socialistic economic system or and have outlawed the death penalty. Their could be other factors besides that contribute to their low murder rates.
I think it's more that crime in Europe has gone down because of their socialist policies and other factors. I'm a firm supporter of socialism (to an extent) for the poor and the disabled.
 

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I am opposed to the death penalty because an eye for an eye makes everybody blind and two wrongs do not make a right. It also sets a bad example that violence and vengance is OK. Governments are violent institutions which seem to set a bad example to the people. I would like to quote infamous terrorist Timothy McVeigh after he was sentenced to death, their is alot of truth in his statement no matter what you might think of him:

"If the court please, I wish to use the words of Justice Brandeis in Olmstead to speak for me. He wrote, 'Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher for good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.' That's all I have."

-Timothy McVeigh
I disagree that the governement sets a bad example because the ones that usually commit the murders and all those other crimes do not pay attenntion to politics nor could they care enough about political issues.Heck most Americans do not pay attention to political issues except for once every four years and They do not even pay attention to what is happening in their own back yard.


As for your "if we were more like those socialist" idea,those that are usually behind bars grew up poor and on social services(welfare,foodstamps,section8, wic and so on).Poor tend to feel as though the world owes them something or that everybody should have a big screen television and nice car.What seperates us from Europe is that we have race parasites such as Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton,KKK,AB,Nazis and a few others who are hellbent on keeping blacks seperate from whites,they accuse the other side of being evil and blaming them for their problems.This is one of the reasons why we have such a high crime rate.Prisons are one of the most racist and segregated places in the country.
 

TimmyBoy

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jamesrage said:
I disagree that the governement sets a bad example because the ones that usually commit the murders and all those other crimes do not pay attenntion to politics nor could they care enough about political issues.Heck most Americans do not pay attention to political issues except for once every four years and They do not even pay attention to what is happening in their own back yard.


As for your "if we were more like those socialist" idea,those that are usually behind bars grew up poor and on social services(welfare,foodstamps,section8, wic and so on).Poor tend to feel as though the world owes them something or that everybody should have a big screen television and nice car.What seperates us from Europe is that we have race parasites such as Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton,KKK,AB,Nazis and a few others who are hellbent on keeping blacks seperate from whites,they accuse the other side of being evil and blaming them for their problems.This is one of the reasons why we have such a high crime rate.Prisons are one of the most racist and segregated places in the country.
Timothy McVeigh's statement is not only applied to the death penalty but also to the US government's actions in foreign policy. Governments are violent institutions. He fought in Desert Storm and saw the Highway of Death. He witnessed the extreme violence of the government overseas and the sheer terror associated with modern warfare. He learned and followed the example of the US government as well as Bin Laden. I mean, saying that the US government does not set a bad example is like saying it is OK for the government to act as accomplices to genocide in Bosnia, supporting coups that bring dictators to power who in turn kill 500,000 of his own people and saying that is OK to wreck 4 countries in South America and kill 200,000 people in the process. This is the sort of example that is set by the US government. This is the sort of example that Timothy McVeigh followed when he blew up the Federal Buidling in Oaklohoma. When asked, how he felt about the deaths of the children in the nursury which was in the Federal Building, Timothy stated they were unfortunate "colateral damage." "Colateral damage" was a term the US government used for thousands of innocent civilians killed in bombing raids in Iraq and many other countries. Some of these civilians being children. So, when McVeigh called the loss of the children "colateral damage" he was merely following the example of the US government. He embodied everything that was wrong with the US government and that is what people hated about Timothy McVeigh. He was a human being like you or myself, but what people hated about Timothy was they saw the US government's actions and behavior in him, without realizing, that is what they were hating. Of course, by sentencing him to death, it only re-inforced Timothy's statement, that the government teaches by example.
 

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It's the same with Bin Laden who was once at least indirectly supported by the CIA during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. What people hate most about Bin Laden is that they see the behavior of the US government when they watch the behavior of Bin Laden.
 

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Why is that I am not out commiting henious crimes, and killing people? I live in this country and the effect your speaking of seems to not effect me. Would seem to me the people commiting these type crimes are crimes. They are not acting out because of the death penalty, they are just trying to not get caught. NO the death penalty does not teach violence and vengence. You have free will, what you choose to do with it is up to you. There is no one to blame but themselves
 

TimmyBoy

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Calm2Chaos said:
Why is that I am not out commiting henious crimes, and killing people? I live in this country and the effect your speaking of seems to not effect me. Would seem to me the people commiting these type crimes are crimes. They are not acting out because of the death penalty, they are just trying to not get caught. NO the death penalty does not teach violence and vengence. You have free will, what you choose to do with it is up to you. There is no one to blame but themselves
Tooth for tooth, eye for an eye makes everything just and right eh Chaos?
 

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TimmyBoy said:
Tooth for tooth, eye for an eye makes everything just and right eh Chaos?
You don't understand. People who committ horribly violent crimes simply deserve to be killed. If the state doesn't kill them, then it makes the state look weak in the eyes of criminals and criminals don't respect weakness.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
Tooth for tooth, eye for an eye makes everything just and right eh Chaos?
I dunno if it makes everything all right. I do know that if your willing to take someones wife, husnad, son or daughter from them. Then you as a person have made a conscious decision to do so. And if life means so little to you I can't see a decisive enough argument for there life in return. If you take my daughter from me, if you decide to be her judge and jury. Then you have given permission for others to pass that same sentence on to you. Doesn't seem vengefull, seems fair. Why should my tax dollars be used to house and care for a person that took a life from my family.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
I was wondering if people thought the Death penalty teaches venegence and violence? I propose that this is exactly what the death penalty does.

Who cares? Getting rid of scum that not only does not contribute to society, but also preys on it, is a good thing. Even cancer get's cut out.
 

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GySgt said:
Who cares? Getting rid of scum that not only does not contribute to society, but also preys on it, is a good thing. Even cancer get's cut out.
Stooping to the same level of the killer makes us no better and does not make the overall situation any better either. The idea of the justice system is to bring justice, not to be some sort of surgical doctor removing a cancer.
 

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George_Washington said:
You don't understand. People who committ horribly violent crimes simply deserve to be killed. If the state doesn't kill them, then it makes the state look weak in the eyes of criminals and criminals don't respect weakness.
People who murder don't think about whether the state is weak or strong. That is the last thing from their minds when they murder.
 

Calm2Chaos

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TimmyBoy said:
Stooping to the same level of the killer makes us no better and does not make the overall situation any better either. The idea of the justice system is to bring justice, not to be some sort of surgical doctor removing a cancer.
And paying them to have a three hots and a cot and watch cable TV after murdering a couple 11 year old girls is what you call justice? NOPE.. sorry you do the crime you get your azz zapped, or needled whatever the case may be.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
Stooping to the same level of the killer makes us no better and does not make the overall situation any better either. The idea of the justice system is to bring justice, not to be some sort of surgical doctor removing a cancer.
Stooping? A killer kills out of rage or out of disorder. A jury of twelve civiliy decide guilt with the knowledge that the death penalty is the punishment. It's not quite stooping. It's justice. I say "CUT THAT CANCER!"
 

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Does it teach vengence? I dunno but I think its certainly supported by people who believe in the whole 'eye for an eye' thing. I mean when I was a kid, I always wanted to see criminaols executed but now that I'm older I'm not so sure
 

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Orignally posted by FinnMacCool
Does it teach vengence? I dunno but I think its certainly supported by people who believe in the whole 'eye for an eye' thing. I mean when I was a kid, I always wanted to see criminaols executed but now that I'm older I'm not so sure
When I was a little younger I did not support the idea of a death penalty because I thought it was hypocritical for society to execute somene for murder when society is doing the same thing to that murderer.But I grew up and threw away such childish notions after realizing that the victims are no longer alive and that the murderer gets to live better than someone who lives in a thirld world country and there is the possibility that the murderer can escape and kil again just to keep from being caught.
 

jamesrage

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Originally Posted by TimmyBoy
Timothy McVeigh's statement is not only applied to the death penalty but also to the US government's actions in foreign policy. Governments are violent institutions. He fought in Desert Storm and saw the Highway of Death. He witnessed the extreme violence of the government overseas and the sheer terror associated with modern warfare. He learned and followed the example of the US government as well as Bin Laden. I mean, saying that the US government does not set a bad example is like saying it is OK for the government to act as accomplices to genocide in Bosnia, supporting coups that bring dictators to power who in turn kill 500,000 of his own people and saying that is OK to wreck 4 countries in South America and kill 200,000 people in the process. This is the sort of example that is set by the US government. This is the sort of example that Timothy McVeigh followed when he blew up the Federal Buidling in Oaklohoma. When asked, how he felt about the deaths of the children in the nursury which was in the Federal Building, Timothy stated they were unfortunate "colateral damage." "Colateral damage" was a term the US government used for thousands of innocent civilians killed in bombing raids in Iraq and many other countries. Some of these civilians being children. So, when McVeigh called the loss of the children "colateral damage" he was merely following the example of the US government. He embodied everything that was wrong with the US government and that is what people hated about Timothy McVeigh. He was a human being like you or myself, but what people hated about Timothy was they saw the US government's actions and behavior in him, without realizing, that is what they were hating. Of course, by sentencing him to death, it only re-inforced Timothy's statement, that the government teaches by example.
How many people that are behind bars that you think actually beleave what you beleave?Considering most people behind bars are un-educated more than likely not going to give two shits about what goes on in the world nor are they going to have the same crackpot theories that you have.
So your idea that uncle sam sets a bad example for the public is false.


People who murder don't think about whether the state is weak or strong. That
is the last thing from their minds when they murder.
People who murder do not give a **** what kind of example our government makes.
 
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