Do you support the ban of shock collars?

[JasperL]

My idea of a great outing with my dog is not one that would include buzzing her with electricity. I’d feel like complete shit doing that and I’d feel she’d never be quite confident she could fully relax when I’m around. She is a shelter dog, btw.

Have you ever seen a dog trained competently on an e-collar or 'shock' collar? I've seen a number of them, and they're confident, happy dogs, lots of times having an awesome day off leash. I don't see how that's a negative, when the alternative for many dogs IS otherwise being tethered by a six foot leash, attached to a harness or flat collar.

My neighbor picks up the 'shock' collar and her dogs get excited because that means play time, a walk off leash, playing fetch. That's how it's done right, and if you haven't seen it you aren't speaking from experience but fear of how someone might and I'm sure does misuse a tool, like all tools like a leash can be abused or misused.

Edit to add that I volunteer for the local Humane Society and they're a 'no-kill' shelter, but they pick their dogs and reject those who cannot be adopted. So the sad fact is most dogs turned into the county get killed, euthanized, and it's because they're not adoptable, they're reactive, etc. So the one you got was a lucky one who made the 'cut' and was put up for adoption.

So lots of great trainers have a decision. They have a client with dog that's out of control and it's either use a tool like a prong collar (same arguments against as a 'shock' collar - they are aversive tools) and get that dog under control in a week or two if the owners can afford a two week board and train, or they get it done in sessions, or the dog is killed. Well, what's better for the dog then? Dead or the handler uses 'aversive' training to enforce boundaries, rules, acceptable behavior? Again, those will be paired with 99% positive training like good trainers use an e-collar, but sometimes the only option is making a rule matter to the dog, with aversives for not doing what the dog KNOWS it should be doing.

 

[Underestimated]

my Border Collie doesn't bark and some of my friends' Border Collies don't bark either.

But look, I'm saying they 'don't bark' in a sense that you won't understand. You'll think it means that they 'can't' bark and 'never' bark.

And all that's beside the point.

Sophisticated (in the sense of the word) as it pertains to me and my dog owner acquaintances, who would never rely on a 'shock' collar for our best friends.
You're welcome to my world if you can behave yourself accordingly. And only ask questions when you truly want answers, not in attempts to bring others down.

Understood and a good clarification that it's not necessarily the breed of the dog but individual dogs may not bark or may not bark often. I do not attack unless I'm attacked and in this case I truly was asking for a clarification as I'm not a dog person (and have limited experience with dog breeds) but I'm a cat person.

 

[CLAX1911]

Whips are used when the animal is within arm's length. Nobody shocks their dog when they can just grab them. That's kind of the whole point of a shock collar, it's for compliance when the animal is far away and there is danger that your voice hasn't gotten compliance from. Hunters, for example, don't get joy out of shocking their dog. It's used when other methods of compliance/training have failed.

Whips are just to make sound. I prefer a clicker.

 

[CLAX1911]

Have you ever seen a dog trained competently on an e-collar or 'shock' collar? I've seen a number of them, and they're confident, happy dogs, lots of times having an awesome day off leash. I don't see how that's a negative, when the alternative for many dogs IS otherwise being tethered by a six foot leash, attached to a harness or flat collar.

My neighbor picks up the 'shock' collar and her dogs get excited because that means play time, a walk off leash, playing fetch. That's how it's done right, and if you haven't seen it you aren't speaking from experience but fear of how someone might and I'm sure does misuse a tool, like all tools like a leash can be abused or misused.

Edit to add that I volunteer for the local Humane Society and they're a 'no-kill' shelter, but they pick their dogs and reject those who cannot be adopted. So the sad fact is most dogs turned into the county get killed, euthanized, and it's because they're not adoptable, they're reactive, etc. So the one you got was a lucky one who made the 'cut' and was put up for adoption.

So lots of great trainers have a decision. They have a client with dog that's out of control and it's either use a tool like a prong collar (same arguments against as a 'shock' collar - they are aversive tools) and get that dog under control in a week or two if the owners can afford a two week board and train, or they get it done in sessions, or the dog is killed. Well, what's better for the dog then? Dead or the handler uses 'aversive' training to enforce boundaries, rules, acceptable behavior? Again, those will be paired with 99% positive training like good trainers use an e-collar, but sometimes the only option is making a rule matter to the dog, with aversives for not doing what the dog KNOWS it should be doing.

People generally don't understand how any color works how you use it to train a dog. They can get electrocutes the dog it just doesn't have the voltage or the average to do that.

I personally wouldn't use anything on a dog that I wasn't willing to try on myself. People perceive shock as pain compliance. because again they didn't get electrocutes the dog and it doesn't. I would say it's probably better for the dog to get up buzz from any collar and it is to pull on a flat collar. It's less of a correction and it's less likely to cause pain.

Most people think they're cruel out of ignorance.

 

[GummyVitamins]

Anyone who uses a shock collar on their best friend should have the collar put on their own neck so their best friend can remind them that they're a lowlife hillbilly. And their sister/wife is probably no better, except that she would perhaps find some pleasure out of the collar.

What compliance/training do you think the billies use on their children, that makes them so angry that they live in constant expectation of being able to shoot a liberal who knocks on their front door?

I have no idea what you just said or why you said it.

 

[calamity]

I have no idea what you just said or why you said it.

It was pretty clear to me.

 

[trblmkr]

I have had dogs all of my life. Most all of them were trained with a little use of a choker to teach them what "heal" meant. I had a couple of labs for hunting that were whistle trained to range left, right , etc. There were no shock collars back then. Three years ago someone slowed down and tossed a lab puppy out in our driveway. He's my wife's baby. 85 lb baby. He required no obedience training other than being consistent in the words we used. He's really smart. We have a few acres for the dogs to patrol and they do so mostly without running astray. But out front is a hwy that gets a good bit of traffic, especially logging trucks. If the mailman or someone pulls in our driveway to turn around, he will race down the driveway and out the gate and down the road chasing them. He knows better than to leave the yard but he just can't seem to help it. My wife was freaked out about finding him run over.
I bought a radio collar and spent a couple of days setting it up to start alerting 10 yards or so before the gate. I tested it on me and I've been hit way harder by electric fences. I put up flags to identify the border and then I put the collar on him while on leash. We walked toward the gate and when the alarm went off I told him to get in the yard. I did this several times. I finally let him keep going until he got a shock. He didn't like it. I told him to get in the yard and it stopped.
I only repeated this a few days and then I took the battery out of the collar. Now he doesn't wear the collar. He runs toward the gate and stops just short of going out, barking like crazy. I didn't know how else to prevent the behavior. He is no worse for wear and has stopped scaring us to death.
PS. I never and I mean never physically discipline my dogs. Unless they bite at me. And they don't.

 

[noonereal]

The use of shock collars is banned in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, and Germany,[28] and in some territories of Australia, including New South Wales and South Australia.
The United States, China, Japan, France, Canada, South Korea, Russia, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, United Arab Emirates, Finland, New Zealand, Portugal and 168 other nations listed by the United Nations do not regulate the use of electrical collars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_collar#:~:text=The use of shock collars is banned in Denmark, Norway,South Wales and South Australia.

While once a popular option for pet owners, now at least 79 percent of the public agrees that positive reinforcement training methods are preferable over shock collars [1]. The collars have been outlawed in several countries, and by organizations who have acknowledged their harmful effects.
More than just physical pain, shock collars deliver a jolt of electricity strong enough to burn fur and skin, and seriously disorient a dog. After being shocked repeatedly, the dog may even begin to feel unsafe, and live in a constant state of fear [2].
https://theanimalrescuesite.greatergood.com/clicktogive/ars/petition/shock-collars#:~:text=Electronic shock collars are an,use in the United States.&text=in K9 training.-,More than just physical pain, shock collars deliver a jolt,and seriously disorient a dog.

View attachment 67322620

They need to be made stronger. They are too weak now for some dogs.

 

[X Factor]

People generally don't understand how any color works how you use it to train a dog. They can get electrocutes the dog it just doesn't have the voltage or the average to do that.

I personally wouldn't use anything on a dog that I wasn't willing to try on myself. People perceive shock as pain compliance. because again they didn't get electrocutes the dog and it doesn't. I would say it's probably better for the dog to get up buzz from any collar and it is to pull on a flat collar. It's less of a correction and it's less likely to cause pain.

Most people think they're cruel out of ignorance.

I think they’re cruel because there are dipshits out there that think it’s fine to zap a dog on the highest setting because they believe dogs are unable to feel pain from a shock collar or other stupid nonsense.

 

[X Factor]

They need to be made stronger. They are too weak now for some dogs.

You never pass up an opportunity to post something stupid do you?

 

[TurtleDude]

There are better methods of training and so better solutions, but you don't want to know them.

The person who uses one of those collars has already failed.
You've mixed up your American 'right' to use cruel measures on a dog with being successful with a dog.

I find your arguments to be beyond specious, and laced with a healthy amount of anti American idiocy. On top of that you haven't a clue what you are talking about when it comes to dogs.

 

[TurtleDude]

Whips are used when the animal is within arm's length. Nobody shocks their dog when they can just grab them. That's kind of the whole point of a shock collar, it's for compliance when the animal is far away and there is danger that your voice hasn't gotten compliance from. Hunters, for example, don't get joy out of shocking their dog. It's used when other methods of compliance/training have failed.

Like when a 5000 dollar champion field trial Springer is about to chase a deer for miles or run into a porcupine or skunk. Or in the case (this is popular in the midwest) when a coon dog is about to make the fatal mistake of chasing a big coon into a pond or lake. (for you city folk, a coon can out swim a dog and will sometimes drown one if it follows the raccoon into the water)

 

[CLAX1911]

I think they’re cruel because there are dipshits out there that think it’s fine to zap a dog on the highest setting because they believe dogs are unable to feel pain from a shock collar or other stupid nonsense.

Try one on yourself they don't cause pain.

 

[PirateMk1]

I have first-hand experience you know nothing.

Did I just not relay first hand experience? Is your experience more valid than mine? To you yes, as is mine to me, to the forum they are equal for all intents and purposes.

 

[CLAX1911]

Did I just not relay first hand experience? Is your experience more valid than mine? To you yes, as is mine to me, to the forum they are equal for all intents and purposes.

I'm sorry I don't know why I quoted you in that post. That was meant for someone else I do apologize.

 

[X Factor]

I'm sorry I don't know why I quoted you in that post. That was meant for someone else I do apologize.

I’ve totally done the same. You probably clicked Pirate’s post at some point and the software doesn’t forget.

 

[PirateMk1]

I'm sorry I don't know why I quoted you in that post. That was meant for someone else I do apologize.

No worries.

 

[Montgomery]

I have no idea what you just said or why you said it.

I didn't expect that people like you would understand..

 

[CLAX1911]

I’ve totally done the same. You probably clicked Pirate’s post at some point and the software doesn’t forget.

Yeah I think that is what happened.

 

[justabubba]

I'm not a dog owner (allergic), so take this opinion with a grain of salt. I think people who use shock collars are just too lazy to train their dogs to not bark all of the time. Dogs are very smart and can easily be trained to not behave badly.

[emphasis added by bubba]
what causes you to insist dogs can be easily trained?

 

[CLAX1911]

[emphasis added by bubba]
what causes you to insist dogs can be easily trained?

People who poopoo shock collars don't really know how to use them or what they're used for.

They're going on the basis that it's some sort of transformer that electrocutes the dog to death.

 

[justabubba]

was unaware of this thread. on friday, i sidetracked another thread topic to respond to a comment related to the subject of this thread:

garmin shock collar was the best money i have spent in the past year
stryker is more responsive to my commands, by orders of magnitude, since it arrived
he's happier, too. he is no longer always tethered to my 6' leash and can often roam at will in the local parks
have only applied the juice three times in the past six weeks ... they were all in the first week. he figured things out in a hurry
said i would never have one
before that said i would never have a pinch collar
priest owns a similar dog who plays with mine, and was the one who encouraged my use of a shock collar
therefor, i must conclude it is G_d's will [/s]

back to the thread topic: effective tomorrow my wife, children, and their spouses will have all been vaccinated ... we have already rescheduled the family beach trip that was cancelled last summer

kudos to tRump for personally doing all of the research and development required to bring these vaccines to our nation. amazing what a man of science can bring to the table

my previous dog, an American lab, Jax, was trained by the same fellow who breeds and raises english labs to hunt. when my current lab would rather watch them go thru the paces than participate himself, he told me to come pick Stryker up and take him home because "that dog will not hunt!"
Jax was always off leash. people would stop their cars and come to the door letting us know he was off leash (but in our yard). when i was coming up 50s/60s it was typical for neighborhood dogs to roam. and sometimes get run over. Jax was obedient. Stryker is anything but. same trainer. different result. we live beside a park - designed by the same fellow who crafted central park; it has the same vibe - and it is typically filled with other dogs and baby strollers. for 18 months i have worked with Stryker to teach him to obey while off leash. and it worked, until there was a rabbit, a squirrel, or another dog whose presence broke his attention and his obedience. most other dog owners were gracious and understanding about the ways of a wayward, headstrong pup while more than a few gave me the stinkeye. the garmin changed that. in a week. 10 intensity levels available. tried #3. too light. #4 got my attention. not his. but #5 works for him. he wags his tail in anticipation when he sees me grab the collar. sits still before me, without command, awaiting the application of the collar. the vibrate gets no response from him, but the application of the 'tone' button is now all that is required for him to get in line. now he is free to wander while in range smelling all of the smells that are so compelling to him. and if he breaks for the creek for a quick dip, and he hears the tone applied, he puts on the breaks. that did not happen to this water dog before the garmin showed up. then, his desire for a swim overcame his inclination to obey my command. ditto for rabbits, squirrels, and other dogs.
i get the opposition. as can be seen in my friday comments, i was previously opposed to prong collars and shock collars. they work. the shock collar works its training magic quickly

 

[Noodlegawd]

I don't believe they should be banned, but really don't think people should use them unless their kids are extremely disobedient.

What?

 

[jamesrage]

No I do not support a ban on them.They work. Before my dogs would bark nonstop at squirrels, cats, neighbors, and other dogs when they were outside. Simply telling them to be quiet didn't work. Bringing them in the house when they started to bark nonstop didn't work. Got a couple of the best selling shock collars on amazon with the beep and vibrate warning features and now they don't bark nonstop at squirrels, cats neighbors and other dogs when they were outside.

 

[grip]

I think animal owners should try what they're doing to their pets first. If you can't stand it, then how much less an innocent creature seeking affection.