Do you support the ban of shock collars?

[CLAX1911]

what is an invisible barrier other than an electronic fence?

It's a barrier that you can't see

 

[joko104]

I would support legally limiting the strength of the shock.

A few years ago a neighbor got one for his hound, that barked ALL NIGHT. But with the shock collar it was worse. The dog would to start to bark, which would turn into a horrible howl of pain. It is in the dna of that breed to bark at sounds and other animals. So all night, all day, the next night, that dog starting a bark becoming a much louder horrific howl of pain. The dog was not being conditioned. It was not figuring it out. It was being tortured for being what it is. We told him he has to do something about this. That this can't continue because we can't stand hearing or thinking of that dog's suffering.

The dog then was gone. Don't know what he did with it. It was a very expensive hunting dog.

 

[JasperL]

Could you have used positive reinforcement instead. Did you try?

Of course it hurts - it's an electric shock. Using your justification we could put them on crying babies.

We could also put collars on babies and attach them to us with a 6 foot leather leash every time they are outdoors, and if they pull ahead of us a bit, give a yank on the leash, or just let them pull and choke themselves like so many dogs do on walks..... That's not actually better, but we do it with dogs every time we leave the house.

 

[joko104]

Can you image the prosecution and horror of a parent who put a shock collar on their child to teach the children not to interrupt?

Species prejudice is very much alive and well.

 

[JasperL]

I would support legally limiting the strength of the shock.

A few years ago a neighbor got one for his hound, that barked ALL NIGHT. But with the shock collar it was worse. The dog would to start to bark, which would turn into a horrible howl of pain. It is in the dna of that breed to bark at sounds and other animals. So all night, all day, the next night, that dog starting a bark becoming a much louder horrific howl of pain. The dog was not being conditioned. It was not figuring it out. It was being tortured for being what it is. We told him he has to do something about this. That this can't continue because we can't stand hearing or thinking of that dog's suffering.

The dog then was gone. Don't know what he did with it. It was a very expensive hunting dog.

Yeah, that kind of thing is why they're banned in some places. Idiots using it as a way to administer pain, without having a clue how to use it. That's animal abuse. I wouldn't oppose having them sold only through trainers, etc. No one who knows how to use e-collars would use it that way.

 

[JasperL]

Can you image the prosecution and horror of a parent who put a shock collar on their child to teach the children not to interrupt?

Species prejudice is very much alive and well.

Or a leather leash, attached to a flat collar around their neck, to teach them to stay close to mom and dad....

 

[JasperL]

Noise only my ass.

Some better 'shock' collars also have a 'vibrate' only option. Like your iPhone when the ringer is off.

 

[JasperL]

Seems like those that swear by the use of shock collars would be the biggest voices against using them in an abusive way and wouldn’t support people using them unless they know how to do it correctly, but I never see that. It’s always defend the use by anyone in whatever way. Shock collars have metal prongs that press up against the dogs neck. I’m not sure making a dog live with that 24/7 indicates love.

It's not how responsible people use those collars. They're put on when the dog is off leash and taken off when not needed.

And if you haven't seen trainers advocate for informed use of the collars, you're just not looking. It's REALLY important to introduce them correctly - if nothing else so they associate the shock with the owner, and almost always not doing something they already know to do, 100%. You don't tell a dog, 'come' then when it doesn't shock them unless you know the dog understands the command, completely, in different contexts, inside, outside, at the park, on a trail. Once they know 'come' and CHOOSE to ignore it is when the shock collar is useful, because there is no leash or other way to enforce that command.

 

[joko104]

Or a leather leash, attached to a flat collar around their neck, to teach them to stay close to mom and dad....

I agree. Circumstantially (very rare) a "shoulder harness" or even just short line to the belt (maybe, I'd have to think about that) if in some very crowded outdoor setting like at a fair or carnival - and with too many children overall to not just hold the child's hand. We were at a fair with the kids and turning around one (I think about age at the time) was out-of-sight and a lot of people everywhere. That sudden what I call "white terror" sense when it comes to children. Instead, she was just 6 feet away and had bent over on the other side of a trash can to look at a bug. But for that brief moment it was full panic.

 

[Underestimated]

Shock collars work.

A resident in our HOA community faced eviction because he had over 15 complaints of incessant barking.

He put a shock collar on his dog, and within 24 hours, the barking stopped.

His dog no longer barks, and everyone is happy.

Success!

I do agree with the banning of shock collars. It's inhumane in my view. There are other ways to train dogs to do what you want them to do. Regarding a dog barking, well, that's what dogs do. Don't get a dog if your HOA doesn't like barking, get a cat.

 

[Montgomery]

in some areas you have three choices. put your dog on a leash every time it wants to pee. Put it in a fenced in area -Its been a while since we had our dog's area fenced in(due to coyotes) or get an invisible fence. Do you have an idea what the cost difference are

now most bird dog trainers use a shock collar. To keep the dogs they are training from

1) chasing deer
2) going after things like skunks
3) eating a bird.

I'd love to know a better solution.

There are better methods of training and so better solutions, but you don't want to know them.

The person who uses one of those collars has already failed.
You've mixed up your American 'right' to use cruel measures on a dog with being successful with a dog.

 

[Montgomery]

I do agree with the banning of shock collars. It's inhumane in my view. There are other ways to train dogs to do what you want them to do. Regarding a dog barking, well, that's what dogs do. Don't get a dog if your HOA doesn't like barking, get a cat.

Actually no, it's not what all dogs do.
If you want to be a humane, bleeding heart liberal like me then you have to get it right to begin with.

 

[Eriech]

The use of shock collars is banned in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, and Germany,[28] and in some territories of Australia, including New South Wales and South Australia.
The United States, China, Japan, France, Canada, South Korea, Russia, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, United Arab Emirates, Finland, New Zealand, Portugal and 168 other nations listed by the United Nations do not regulate the use of electrical collars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_collar#:~:text=The use of shock collars is banned in Denmark, Norway,South Wales and South Australia.

While once a popular option for pet owners, now at least 79 percent of the public agrees that positive reinforcement training methods are preferable over shock collars [1]. The collars have been outlawed in several countries, and by organizations who have acknowledged their harmful effects.
More than just physical pain, shock collars deliver a jolt of electricity strong enough to burn fur and skin, and seriously disorient a dog. After being shocked repeatedly, the dog may even begin to feel unsafe, and live in a constant state of fear [2].
https://theanimalrescuesite.greatergood.com/clicktogive/ars/petition/shock-collars#:~:text=Electronic shock collars are an,use in the United States.&text=in K9 training.-,More than just physical pain, shock collars deliver a jolt,and seriously disorient a dog.

View attachment 67322620

It would be somewhat extreme to put the president in a collar. No doubt Kamala would use one if she could get away with it. Shock worked in the short term for Nurse Ratched took a full lobotomy in the end.

We have had invisible fences for our dogs in the past. Worked great for one not as well for the another. The electric fence for the horses did a great job overall much better than barbed wire. Zapped me more than once.

 

[JasperL]

I agree and I would add that anyone that shocks dogs for barking or otherwise behaving as a dog also shouldn’t have a dog.

Again, you’re not being consistent. Are shock collars completely harmless and mild or not.

Uhm, there is no other purpose to something intended to deliver an electric shock as correction but pain. The question is not whether shock collars cause pain, the question is whether the compliance is worth the pain. I never have or would.

You’re not one of those that thinks a dog shouldn’t enter a room before you or something, are you?

You’re just a big ol’ softy that supports shocking dogs.

You can't advocate for positive only training then complain about a common way to teach dogs that there are boundaries, rules, and letting the person go first is one good tool. Our dogs wait at the door, I walk out and they follow. It didn't take any punishment - treats get that done. Open the door, they try to run out, stop them, say stay, open the door, they stay, treats. About two days of that and they get it if you're consistent, no force required. You'll see positive only purists doing that.

The alternative is the dog does what he wants, when he wants, to hell with you. That's how you get someone turning to a shock collar, because they've never established any boundaries, and the dog doesn't give a damn about you so runs off. Someone comes to the front door, you open it, the dog bolts into the street and is killed. Of course they should need your permission to bolt through an open door.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

While it is true that they can be abused, when used properly they can not only solve serious K-9 problems very quickly, but they can save lives. Proper training with a shock collar involves giving the dog a tone - a sound - before administering the shock. The dog very quickly learns that if it persists in the wrong behavior, a shock will soon follow.

That's how electric perimeter boundaries work without building fences. The wire is buried in the ground, and the dog is trained where the limits of their property are. As they approach going over the line, they first hear the tone. If they venture further, they get a shock. It often takes no more than a day of training to reinforce the idea that beyond the sound, you go no further. The dog can then live happily for years never, or very rarely, actually getting a shock. And the shocks themselves are hardly debilitating. It's not like getting tased. I've had a shock collar on, and while discomforting enough to want to avoid, it's not like the voltage you'd get from an electric baton, which will put you on your ass.

Permanent store display informercial video that I produced for Smarty Pets.


I can tell you from personal experience that the "shock" administered isn't very strong, definitely not enough to burn anything, not even an insect. It's a noticeable "BZZZZZZTTT!!!" sensation that's about it. The batteries used in that particular device aren't powerful enough to deliver much beyond that.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

It would be somewhat extreme to put the president in a collar. No doubt Kamala would use one if she could get away with it. Shock worked in the short term for Nurse Ratched took a full lobotomy in the end.

We have had invisible fences for our dogs in the past. Worked great for one not as well for the another. The electric fence for the horses did a great job overall much better than barbed wire. Zapped me more than once.

do you have to pollute every thread with your poison? you have to take every thread off topic just to troll?

rules:

3. Baiting/Flaming/Trolling
Another form of baiting is known as “derailing” or “thread-jacking”. This is deliberate act of making statements with an aim of diverting the topic of a thread significantly from its main focus. These negative forms of baiting constitute a rules violation that can potentially lead to a suspension of posting privileges.

 

[JasperL]

I’ve always been leery of the invisible fences. A hard-headed dog will figure out that the shock is only momentary.

We have a GSD and when he was younger I got a collar for training. The first morning we headed out, I dialed the transmitter to about a third of the scale. I gave a short zap and the dog caught air on all four paws. I never used it again!

A friend of mine got one, and his hard headed lab just didn't care. The dog knew the boundary and would when it decided it wanted to just blow right through it. They tried on the max shock, got a collar with a bigger max, then two of those. Dog was just going to do what it wanted to do... He said you could watch it zap the dog. He'd get on the other side, kind of give a shake, then off to the races after the dog, deer, whatever. I think I'd have given up well before they did...

We had one for a long time, and like you it took one time to train the dog, at the lowest setting. But it was a schnauzer that wasn't really interested in roaming anyway. Great for that dog. After a bit we didn't bother with the 'collar' part. Got tired of replacing batteries.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

I voted yes, they should be banned. I bought one years ago for my younger dog because we were doing a lot of camping in areas where there were some dangers, like fast running rivers, etc. We were the only ones who used the remote control, usually me.

It was kept on a #3 setting, highest was 10. I strapped it to my leg to feel the intensity, it was mild. It did get the attention of my dog and worked very well when I wanted to be sure she came when needed. I didn't use it very long, she was well behaved and learned how to stay safe.

I had it in the closet for awhile and ended up throwing it out. In the hands of the wrong person, someone who does not love their pets, or has anger issues, it can be used to punish or torture. That is why I voted to ban, too many jerks out there that would misuse something like that.

As far as barking, I think there are collars that squirt out a scent to get their attention and stop the barking. I've trained all my pups when they were young, the 'no bark' command, pet owners need to take responsibility in training and not be lazy about it, the animal always suffers.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I voted yes, they should be banned. I bought one years ago for my younger dog because we were doing a lot of camping in areas where there were some dangers, like fast running rivers, etc. We were the only ones who used the remote control, usually me.

It was kept on a #3 setting, highest was 10. I strapped it to my leg to feel the intensity, it was mild. It did get the attention of my dog and worked very well when I wanted to be sure she came when needed. I didn't use it very long, she was well behaved and learned how to stay safe.

I had it in the closet for awhile and ended up throwing it out. In the hands of the wrong person, someone who does not love their pets, or has anger issues, it can be used to punish or torture. That is why I voted to ban, too many jerks out there that would misuse something like that.

As far as barking, I think there are collars that squirt out a scent to get their attention and stop the barking. I've trained all my pups when they were young, the 'no bark' command, pet owners need to take responsibility in training and not be lazy about it, the animal always suffers.

View attachment 67322732

I wonder if the same owners who use collars to get their dogs to stop barking would use them on their wives to step them from barking? OR better still, would they be ok if their wives used collars on them to stop them from barking?

 

[Rexedgar]

A friend of mine got one, and his hard headed lab just didn't care. The god knew the boundary and would when it decided it wanted to just blow right through it. They tried on the max shock, got a collar with a bigger max, then two of those. Dog was just going to do what it wanted to do... He said you could watch it zap the dog. He'd get on the other side, kind of give a shake, then off to the races after the dog, deer, whatever. I think I'd have given up well before they did...

We had one for a long time, and like you it took one time to train the dog, at the lowest setting. But it was a schnauzer that wasn't really interested in roaming anyway. Great for that dog. After a bit we didn't bother with the 'collar' part. Got tired of replacing batteries.

I did notice, before I put the collar away, that when Rex was on the collar, he was more apt to respond to a “come” command than when he didn’t have the collar on.

 

[Bodi]

I have first-hand experience you know nothing.

I know what a shock is... why don't you?

 

[Underestimated]

Actually no, it's not what all dogs do.
If you want to be a humane, bleeding heart liberal like me then you have to get it right to begin with.

There's only one breed that I know of that doesn't bark at all it's the basenji. The rest howl, yelp or do bark. If you've got more breeds that literally do not bark at all, please point me in the right direction.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Get a border collie. They somehow know instinctively where the property lines are. I'm no fan of those things. They can malfunction, especially in bad/wet weather, and do major harm to your fur babies.

Plus, I think some animal can come in your yard and attack your dog, if your dog tries to escape he suffers by getting shocked. I never like the idea of those 'fences' at all. Never knew anyone who had one.

 

[CLAX1911]

I know what a shock is... why don't you?

When did I say I didn't know what a shock was?

 

[GummyVitamins]

Whips have just as much potential in gaining obedience from a dog as a shock collar but it’s notable that your only issue is that they might not be effective, not that they’re abusive.

Whips are used when the animal is within arm's length. Nobody shocks their dog when they can just grab them. That's kind of the whole point of a shock collar, it's for compliance when the animal is far away and there is danger that your voice hasn't gotten compliance from. Hunters, for example, don't get joy out of shocking their dog. It's used when other methods of compliance/training have failed.