Did Trayvon tell Zim to "Get off me!"

[ttwtt78640]

Zim says Trayvon knocked Zim to the ground. Dee Dee says she heard the sound of grass, and heard Trayvon tell Zim to "Get off me!"

Before that, Dee Dee heard Trayvon say, "Get your hands off me." This sounds more like Zim knocked Trayvon down, then Trayvon was able to get on top, after a scuffle in the grass. Did Trayvon throw his first punches, after Zim had knocked him down, and not till after Trayvon was able to get out from underneath of Zim?

Does this show more of a murderous intent in Zim's mind?

I don't remember Zim claiming he asked Trayvon to ge off him. Zim just said he called for help.


//

Dee Dee also said that she heard GZ ask a single question of TM, yet the words in that single question vary in her "sworn" statements. If one is to ignore that detail yet assure us that the "get off, get off" (or was it "get your hands off of me"?) then that gospel is suspect. You see, juries often use their superpowers of observation to know that the "theme" of witness's testimony is only believable if the words used to back it up match.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

They are trying to force him to the witness stand. They are reeling him in like a fish. Their inability to impeach Rachel didn't help. They had based their entire strategy on breaking her down. She was not perfect but her story remained the same. If they allow evidence of his past bad behavior all hell will break lose.

She was shown to have clearly lied. A blind man could see it. And hear it.

Further, Trayvon did not "die instantly". That will not be proven by the Prosecution, as you assert. You will see.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

George Zimmerman is a murderer and a confirmed liar. Hope he goes far, far away.

Um, we are still waiting the verdict?

 

[Eighty Deuce]

This is not something anyone should have to explain simply because IT IS ZIMMERMAN'S STORY THAT THEY CHANGED POSITIONS. All of these witnesses say that's a lie. The state does not have to prove that they changed positions the defense will have to prove that they did in spite of eyewitness accounts. Further, if it happened as you say, and Martin was in the grass when he was shot as evidenced by the body location WHAT WAS THE IMMINENT THREAT TO HIS LIFE THAT CAUSED ZIMMERMAN TO SHOOT HIM? Guess what genius? Now you lose the "head banged on sidewalk, must shoot blacky" self defense claim.

Your turn.
You'll never catch me slippin.

Not only is this provably false, but I have to ask if you have actually watched the testimony ?

 

[year2late]

She was shown to have clearly lied. A blind man could see it. And hear it.

Further, Trayvon did not "die instantly". That will not be proven by the Prosecution, as you assert. You will see.

I am getting mixed messages.

Is she credible or not?

It seems like the defense wants to disprove her statements and folks here are also wanting to use her to dispel other accounts.

By the way...you say he did not die instantly. How quickly do you think he died?

 

[ARealConservative]

Again, Zimmerman told us the story of why he had to shoot Martin. These witnesses say his version is impossible. Martin's body says its impossible. DNA says it impossible. Therefore the law says its murder.

delusional is the only response that fits.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

I am getting mixed messages.

Is she credible or not?

It seems like the defense wants to disprove her statements and folks here are also wanting to use her to dispel other accounts.

By the way...you say he did not die instantly. How quickly do you think he died?

My understanding is that he had 10 seconds or so of consciousness, consistent with George saying he said "you got me". Clinically dead at 30-60 seconds. If it is an issue, the Defense will provide expert testimony do provide plausible belief that Trayvon voluntarily fell off George once shot, and then rolled or fell to his stomach.

 

[Woodman909]

George Zimmerman is a murderer and a confirmed liar. Hope he goes far, far away.

Am I in the wrong thread? is this about the trial, or an epitaph for Ted Kennedy?

 

[bubbabgone]

... an epitaph for Ted Kennedy?

Don't tease me, bro.

 

[Tettsuo]

I live in a country where the State must prove a person's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You, apparently, think you live in a country where guilt or innocence is decided on a public forum. By Tasha from Texas who makes pronouncements with absolutely nothing to back them up.

Actually, Zimmerman is guilty of killing someone. The State doesn't need to prove he did that. In this situation, he needs to provide something that justifies his claim to self-defense. The State must then prove beyond a reasonable to doubt that his reason was either a lie or implausible. Everything rests on his statements regarding the event.

 

[bubbabgone]

Actually, Zimmerman is guilty of killing someone. The State doesn't need to prove he did that. In this situation, he needs to provide something that justifies his claim to self-defense. The State must then prove beyond a reasonable to doubt that his reason was either a lie or implausible. Everything rests on his statements regarding the event.

The burden of proof is on the State ... always is.

 

[Josie]

How the hell do Zimmerman supporters willingly defend a stalker?

I'm not a Zimmerman or Martin supporter. But from what I've heard, Zimmerman wasn't "stalking" Martin. He was actually concerned for his neighborhood.

 

[Josie]

George Zimmerman is a murderer and a confirmed liar. Hope he goes far, far away.

Um, we are still waiting the verdict?

Why should we? The media (and obviously 66gardeners here) convicted George Zimmerman the day after the incident.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Why should we? The media (and obviously 66gardeners here) convicted George Zimmerman the day after the incident.

So true....

 

[KLATTU]

So after being brutally slammed against the concrete, over and over, and over. And over. And being punched with bricks. .

That's what it looks like to me. I guess Trayvon Martin could have done all that damage from the bottom, but I doubt most objective people would conclude that.

 

[Moot]

7:11:33 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.
7:11:59 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says, "Yes." Dispatcher states, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replies, "OK."
7:12:00 - 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.[15]
7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.

Map of the Retreat at Twin Lakes 7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.[15]
7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.[15][16]
7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[17]
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[18]

Following the shooting:


So somewhere in the 7:13 to 7:15 time frame, Dee Dee hears the workds, "Get your hands off me" and "Get off of me", in what she says is Trayvon's voice.
Timeline of the shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin’s Death | The View From LL2


//

It appears that Zimmerman lost sight of TM while he was still talking to the dispatcher

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.

7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.

Now consider that the witness Rachel said she heard TM say, "Why are you following me?" and someone else asked him why he was there? ..just seconds before she heard "wet grass" and "get off me".

It seems likely that after the call ended and Zimmerman had lost sight of TM that he was heading back to his SUV when he was confronted by TM with "why are you following me?" Zimmerman's response was "why are you here?" and then....pow, punch, punch, punch and then "get off me" and a few screams for help and then...bang.

A witness just got off the stand who said he saw Z on the bottom and T on top punching him martial arts style.

 

[Josie]

It appears that Zimmerman lost sight of TM while he was still talking to the dispatcher

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.

7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.

Now consider that the witness Rachel said she heard TM say, "Why are you following me?" and someone else asked him why he was there? ..just seconds before she heard "wet grass" and "get off me".

It seems likely that after the call ended and Zimmerman had lost sight of TM that he was heading back to his SUV when he was confronted by TM with "why are you following me?" Zimmerman's response was "why are you here?" and then....pow, punch, punch, punch and then "get off me" and a few screams for help and then...bang.

A witness just got off the stand who said he saw Z on the bottom and T on top punching him martial arts style.

Sounds about right.

 

[KLATTU]

Actually, Zimmerman is guilty of killing someone. The State doesn't need to prove he did that. In this situation, he needs to provide something that justifies his claim to self-defense. The State must then prove beyond a reasonable to doubt that his reason was either a lie or implausible. Everything rests on his statements regarding the event.

Zimmerman did kill somebody but he is not guilty of anything yet.

 

[ric27]

Zim says Trayvon knocked Zim to the ground. Dee Dee says she heard the sound of grass, and heard Trayvon tell Zim to "Get off me!"

Before that, Dee Dee heard Trayvon say, "Get your hands off me." This sounds more like Zim knocked Trayvon down, then Trayvon was able to get on top, after a scuffle in the grass. Did Trayvon throw his first punches, after Zim had knocked him down, and not till after Trayvon was able to get out from underneath of Zim?

Does this show more of a murderous intent in Zim's mind?

I don't remember Zim claiming he asked Trayvon to ge off him. Zim just said he called for help.


//

The thing is, you have to discern what is important and what's not. Like separating, the chaff from, the wheat

Your focus should be on the factual evidence...that's paramount not on some witness who was not there. Her interpretations of M's state of mind are that....just interpretations. She's assuming

The witnesses that do have weight are the ones who saw and heard. They were there

It's really that simple

 

[Paperview]

It appears that Zimmerman lost sight of TM while he was still talking to the dispatcher

7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.

7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.

Now consider that the witness Rachel said she heard TM say, "Why are you following me?" and someone else asked him why he was there? ..just seconds before she heard "wet grass" and "get off me".

It seems likely that after the call ended and Zimmerman had lost sight of TM that he was heading back to his SUV when he was confronted by TM with "why are you following me?" Zimmerman's response was "why are you here?" and then....pow, punch, punch, punch and then "get off me" and a few screams for help and then...bang.

A witness just got off the stand who said he saw Z on the bottom and T on top punching him martial arts style.

No he didn't. He saw NO BLOWS. None.

 

[clownboy]

No he didn't. He saw NO BLOWS. None.

You're correct, the witness changed his testimony from his original statement. He initially told police that's what he saw.

Good said he was watching TV with his wife when he heard a noise outside and saw two people wrestling on the ground, with "a lighter-skinned man" on the bottom. He identified the other man, Martin, by his race and clothing.

Good initially told police the person on top was pummeling the other in mixed martial arts style, but backed off that, saying the person on top was straddling the other man, but his arms might have been holding the other down rather than punching.

Asked by state prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda if he saw the "person on top" grabbing the head of the lighter skinned man and slamming it into the concrete, Good replied "No."

In opening statements, defense attorney Don West told the court "Trayvon Martin armed himself with the concrete sidewalk and used it to smash George Zimmerman's head ... That is a deadly weapon."

Under cross-examination Good was asked why he had clarified his initial description about blows being struck. "That's what it looked like," Good said. But because it was dark outside, Good said "I can't 100 percent confirm that that was happening."

Good also said that he was not sure who made the cries for help that several neighbors have described, although he said "the yelling sounded like it was coming from the person on the bottom."

Source

 

[ARealConservative]

No he didn't. He saw NO BLOWS. None.

he said he couldn't be 100% if they were blows, or he was holding him down.

 

[buck]

No he didn't. He saw NO BLOWS. None.

Not exactly what he said. This witness is very literal. What he saw was Trayvon on top swinging his arms down on the indivisdual under him that was on his back. Because it was dark, he couldn't actually see the fists hitting Zimmerman. Not sure what you think the jury is going to think considering Zimm's injuries, though.

 

[Moot]

No he didn't. He saw NO BLOWS. None.

Thats not what the witness said.





"....Jonathan Good initially testified that it appeared "there were strikes being thrown, punches being thrown," but during detailed questioning he said he saw only "downward" arm movements being made....<snip>....

Good, the second person to take the witness stand Friday, said he heard a noise behind his townhome in February 2012, and he saw what looked like a tussle when he stepped out onto his patio to see what was happening.

He said he yelled, "What's going on? Stop it."

Good testified he saw a person in black clothing on top of another person with "white or red" clothing. He said he couldn't see faces but it looked like the person on the bottom had lighter skin. Martin was black and was wearing a dark hoodie. Zimmerman identifies as Hispanic and was wearing a red jacket.

Later, under cross-examination, he said that it looked like the person on top was straddling the person on bottom in a mixed-martial arts move known as "ground and pound." When defence attorney Mark O'Mara asked him if the person on top was Martin, Good said, "Correct, that's what it looked like."

Good also said the person on the bottom yelled for help.

During cross-examination, O'Mara got on his knees to recreate the fighting as he asked Good to walk him through it....read

Zimmerman trial witness saw punches but no head slamming - World - CBC News





What the witness Good didn't see was Zimmerman's head slammed into the concrete...but we do know he had scrapes and wounds on the back of his head, not to mention his face looks like it was pummeled.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

That's what it looks like to me. I guess Trayvon Martin could have done all that damage from the bottom, but I doubt most objective people would conclude that.
View attachment 67149533

View attachment 67149534

Notice the blood streaks moving downward? And not smeared? Do you think that shows he was bleeding with his head in the same position it's in in that photo?