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Did Trayvon tell Zim to "Get off me!"

Josie said:
I'm not a Zimmerman or Martin supporter. But from what I've heard, Zimmerman wasn't "stalking" Martin. He was actually concerned for his neighborhood.
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I know his excuse. The problem was it was an irrational excuse. Martin had done nothing illegal that Zimmerman saw. The teen just "looked suspicious." That is not a good reason to aggressively follow (stalk) someone.
 
Geoist said:
I know his excuse. The problem was it was an
irrational excuse. Martin had done nothing illegal that Zimmerman saw. The teen just "looked suspicious." That is not a good reason to aggressively follow (stalk) someone.
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That's irrelevent.
 
Geoist said:
I know his excuse. The problem was it was an irrational excuse. Martin had done nothing illegal that Zimmerman saw. The teen just "looked suspicious." That is not a good reason to aggressively follow (stalk) someone.
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That you chose to use loaded words such as aggressively and stalked means you are not someone to be taken seriously.
 
Fenton said:
That's irrelevent.
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It is perfectly relevant. Zimmerman irrationally created a dangerous situation where he made a teen feel threatened. Do I totally support Martin's actions? No. But for some to revere Zimmerman as a 'hero' is a slap to the face of true heroes.
 
ARealConservative said:
That you chose to use loaded words such as aggressively and stalked means you are not someone to be taken seriously.
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That is what he did, he aggressively stalked Martin. Maybe the Zimmerman supporters just don't want to face that reality because it conflicts with their "Zimmerman is a hero" fantasy.
 
Geoist said:
That is what he did, he aggressively stalked Martin. Maybe the Zimmerman supporters just don't want to face that reality because it conflicts with their "Zimmerman is a hero" fantasy.
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all I see is you posting nonsense and loaded words. question, do you think this trial is going well for the prosecution?
 
ARealConservative said:
all I see is you posting nonsense and loaded words.
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Let me slow down for you... ZIMMERMAN... STALKED... TRAYVON... MARTIN. A stalker is no hero to me. And shouldn't be a hero to any libertarian.


question, do you think this trial is going well for the prosecution?
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I believe Zimmerman will be cleared of murder. That does not change the relevance of my statements.
 
Geoist said:
That is what he did, he aggressively stalked Martin. Maybe the Zimmerman supporters just don't want to face that reality because it conflicts with their "Zimmerman is a hero" fantasy.
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Wrong. That is your fantasy, as your fantasy is not supported by the evidence.

There was no stalking. Not by a general definition and not by the legal definition of the state.
 
Excon said:
Wrong. That is your fantasy, as your fantasy is not supported by the evidence.

There was no stalking. Not by a general definition and not by the legal definition of the state.
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General definition:
stalking present participle of stalk (Verb)
Verb
Pursue or approach stealthily: "a cat stalking a bird".
Harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention: "the fan stalked the actor". Source: Google
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The legal definition requires at least two incidents so it may not be stalking from a legal sense (which is partly why I think he will be found not guilty), but there is no doubt it is stalking in a general sense.
 
Geoist said:
General definition:
stalking present participle of stalk (Verb)
Verb
Pursue or approach stealthily: "a cat stalking a bird".
Harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention: "the fan stalked the actor". Source: Google
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The legal definition requires at least two incidents so it may not be stalking from a legal sense (which is partly why I think he will be found not guilty), but there is no doubt it is stalking in a general sense.
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We know what the general definition is.
Zimmerman's actions do not fit that description. So stop with your absurd fantasies.
 
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Geoist said:
Let me slow down for you... ZIMMERMAN... STALKED... TRAYVON... MARTIN. A stalker is no hero to me. And shouldn't be a hero to any libertarian.




I believe Zimmerman will be cleared of murder. That does not change the relevance of my statements.
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Believe me, the state would have liked a *stalking charge*.....the more, the merrier

The state is not that stupid....following did not come close to, the legal definition of stalking. Read, the affidavit

So, stop your nonsense
 
Geoist said:
General definition:


The legal definition requires at least two incidents so it may not be stalking from a legal sense (which is partly why I think he will be found not guilty), but there is no doubt it is stalking in a general sense.
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Zimmerman has to be charged with a felony in starting the fight, for a duty to retreat to arise in Florida.


"Innocence—Aggressors Need Not Apply

The principle of Innocence refers to the notion that a person who initiates a conflict should not later be permitted to justify his use of force as self defense. It is this principle that is captured in Florida statute 776.041. It is, however, possible for the initial aggressor of a conflict to regain his “innocence” under certain circumstances., and thereby regain his right to justifiably use force in self defense

What I expect we will see at trial with regard to the principle of Innocence is the State arguing that Zimmerman engaged in conduct of a nature sufficient to qualify as “aggression”. The defense will respond that nothing Zimmerman did could reasonably qualify as an act of “aggression,” and at the same time that even if he did engage in such conduct he nevertheless “regained his innocence” afterwards."


Zimmerman Case: The Five Principles of the Law of Self Defense



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Gladiator said:
Zim says Trayvon knocked Zim to the ground. Dee Dee says she heard the sound of grass, and heard Trayvon tell Zim to "Get off me!"

Before that, Dee Dee heard Trayvon say, "Get your hands off me." This sounds more like Zim knocked Trayvon down, then Trayvon was able to get on top, after a scuffle in the grass. Did Trayvon throw his first punches, after Zim had knocked him down, and not till after Trayvon was able to get out from underneath of Zim?

Does this show more of a murderous intent in Zim's mind?

I don't remember Zim claiming he asked Trayvon to ge off him. Zim just said he called for help.


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Sometimes in the South "get off" is a way of saying "turn me loose"..
 
ARealConservative said:
all I see is you posting nonsense and loaded words. question, do you think this trial is going well for the prosecution?
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Yes.. I think the trial is going well for the prosecution... Listen carefully to the questions and answers.
 
sharon said:
Yes.. I think the trial is going well for the prosecution... Listen carefully to the questions and answers.
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I disagree.
If I was on the jury, I have reasonable doubt about the charges so far.
 
sharon said:
Yes.. I think the trial is going well for the prosecution... Listen carefully to the questions and answers.
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At least, you're a trooper

Even though, the ship is sinking fast in shark infested waters and no life boats/life jackets....and everyone is bleeding profusely

You *somehow* feel there's hope
 
ric27 said:
At least, you're a trooper

Even though, the ship is sinking fast in shark infested waters and no life boats/life jackets....and everyone is bleeding profusely

You *somehow* feel there's hope
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Listen carefully to the questions and answers.
 
I'm still waiting for Alfred to address the issue posed to him last night... I wonder why he hasn't done so yet... lol
 
sharon said:
Don't be derailed by OMara's hypotheticals.
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has nothing to do with OMara's statements.
Its the evidence presented so far.
Why are you concentrating on what the defense says and not the testimony? Could it be you are unwilling to listen and view the data with an open mind? Were you not one who claims GZ is guilty even before all the facts are known? Have you ever stated GZ might be not guilty?
 
mike2810 said:
has nothing to do with OMara's statements.
Its the evidence presented so far.
Why are you concentrating on what the defense says and not the testimony? Could it be you are unwilling to listen and view the data with an open mind? Were you not one who claims GZ is guilty even before all the facts are known? Have you ever stated GZ might be not guilty?
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The trial isn't over..

I think George is a stupid, paranoid ass who caused the death of an unarmed teen.. Can he beat the rap? Maybe.
 
sharon said:
The trial isn't over..

I think George is a stupid, paranoid ass who caused the death of an unarmed teen.. Can he beat the rap? Maybe.
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and your post continues to demostrate your bias and your inability to set personal opinions aside.

I realize the trial is not over. I also have stated I can accept the decision of the jury.

Because no one directly saw all of the event (other than GZ), and no evidence/testimony release before the trial indicated GZ was guilty of M2, I believe in giving him the benefit of doubt and the burden lies with the prosecution. As I stated before, nothing so far has conviced me that GZ is guilty of murder as defined by the law.

With your statement about GZ, is it ok for others to state what they think about TM or the star witness? By doing so would not further the debate, nor add creditablity to the poster. So I will refrain.

I don't believe it was TM saying "get off". Yes someone said it. It may be TM, it may by GZ.
 
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