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Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died nex

Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Winchester said:
I don't disagree, but I hear jobs are hard to come by in Detroit.

I'm also playing devils advocate because I don't know if she had legitimate concerns for her safety. If she had legitimate concerns the question is should she be required to go in alone first responded or not? Also is the city somewhat at fault for creating this work environment?
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Obvious if there is a legitimate concern that is different. It doesn't sound, from this story, like she had it. Maybe there is more to the story. But my guess is her supervisor had all the facts.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

shrubnose said:
The lady didn't do her job, so now she's fired.

I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up fighting a civil suit.
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While I agree, she should have been fired from her job, I think we have to be careful here. If we allow people to sue for things like this, you will open the door up to people suing because maybe they did not use proper technique, or not perfect technique, or any other number of things they feel were not properly done even if they had tried to revive the person. We have already seen people get sued for trying to help a person out an inadvertently causng more damage to them.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Superfly said:
My "side?" Which side is that? And I didn't post anything racist. I only commented on what the EMT said. She is the one that said "you know how these families get." I repeated that. How is that racist? Because I assumed that a black woman wouldn't say something bad like that about her own race? Again - how is that racist?
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Because it assumes that someone doesn't have ingrained racial stereotypes towards people of their own race, particularly negative stereotypes, which is false.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Fearandloathing said:
There is obviously a lot missing from this story. She was afraid even with a partner, yet supervisors found no evidence of hostility.

My experience has been in reporting that there is something missing here, like maybe she was injured or threatened in the past.
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If this is the case, then she should have definitely addressed this with her supervisor. If there is information that she did and her fears/experiences were not addressed properly, then some responsibilities lie on her supervisors. However the statement she made seems very off for a case involving an irrational fear or form of PTSD.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Superfly said:
Well I'm not going to apologize for how I read the article. It made no mention of race. I did. I never denied that. What I did say was that I didn't feel anything I said was racist, and I stand by that. Did I play the race card? Yeah, probably, because the article made it seem (in my opinion) that it was an issue of not going over because of race. The EMT stated "you know how these families get." Usually when somebody says something like that, race is involved, because "these families" usually don't imply that one is talking about their own race. It's like when someone says, "you people."

But whatever. :shrug:
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It could involve a classism rather than racism though. She could have just as easily have been referring to their socioeconomic status as to their race. Or she could have simply have been referring to the area they lived in being the problem. But she could have also been referring to their race, even if she is of the same race. I've known some people who maintain some huge negative stereotypes about people of their own race. They generally just make an exception for themselves or a select group of those they believe are "better" despite being of that race.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Superfly said:
I agree. That is her job. That baby's death could have been prevented.
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How do you know the baby's death could have been prevented?
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

American said:
How do you know the baby's death could have been prevented?
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Regrettably, we will never find out.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

As first responders we are trained to understand that we are the most important person on the scene. That is not to say the patients are not important, but an injured responder will certainly make the scene worse. We are instructed to not enter a scene until it is deemed safe. There was no mention in the article about why she didn't enter. Easy on the knee jerk guys. There is clearly more to this story.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

roguenuke said:
If this is the case, then she should have definitely addressed this with her supervisor. If there is information that she did and her fears/experiences were not addressed properly, then some responsibilities lie on her supervisors. However the statement she made seems very off for a case involving an irrational fear or form of PTSD.
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It's all guessing anyway.

It has been my experience that stories like these usually have an underlying issue. We can only speculate, but a seasoned team leader simply does not go idiot and refuse medical treatment for no reason.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

roguenuke said:
It could involve a classism rather than racism though. She could have just as easily have been referring to their socioeconomic status as to their race. Or she could have simply have been referring to the area they lived in being the problem. But she could have also been referring to their race, even if she is of the same race. I've known some people who maintain some huge negative stereotypes about people of their own race. They generally just make an exception for themselves or a select group of those they believe are "better" despite being of that race.
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Yeah you make a good point. I'd forgotten about that aspect.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Wonder if the parents ever thought of learning CPR, basic first aid, before having a child? If one of the parents could do CPR, maybe the child would still be alive.


With just the one article and not having the investigation report to review, I do not know if the firing was justified or not.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Fearandloathing said:
It's all guessing anyway.

It has been my experience that stories like these usually have an underlying issue. We can only speculate, but a seasoned team leader simply does not go idiot and refuse medical treatment for no reason.
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After the day I had today, I have found there are people who are just really stupid out there and say stupid things at random times, even vastly inappropriate times.

There very well could be more information to this story that shows something else is going on (maybe there was a threat we simply don't know about, or maybe she knew the people and doesn't like them). I just don't think it is likely to change much about this story.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

shrubnose said:
The lady didn't do her job, so now she's fired.

I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up fighting a civil suit.
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Against whom? Not the city, I hope. Not the taxpayer's fault this lady refused to do her job.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

tech30528 said:
As first responders we are trained to understand that we are the most important person on the scene. That is not to say the patients are not important, but an injured responder will certainly make the scene worse. We are instructed to not enter a scene until it is deemed safe. There was no mention in the article about why she didn't enter. Easy on the knee jerk guys. There is clearly more to this story.
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And there's no telling how long it could take for the police to get there in Detroit, if they ever do. In general, it's not safe at all, and not everyone realizes that.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Winchester said:
Is it fair to expect her to go into a house without backup with the very real possibility things could go wrong and she could get blamed for it?
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Every call has the very real possibility that things can go wrong and they could be blamed for it so maybe we should pay EMT's to do nothing but sit around and drink coffee

Winchester said:
I don't know the answer to that and you probably don't either. It's possible she was racist and that was the reasoning. IDK. However race issues aside, assuming it was a poor, gang or crime ridden neighborhood, is it fair to expect an EMT to enter a house alone?
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EMT's should not have to help poor people
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

What did she mean "these families"?
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

DiAnna said:
Tragic and completely unacceptable. I'm glad she was fired, and frankly hope the family sues for this incredible negligence that ultimately led to their child's death.
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I don't know who they'd sue. They're not going to get any money from an EMT (especially one that is out of work).
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Peter Grimm said:
Against whom? Not the city, I hope. Not the taxpayer's fault this lady refused to do her job
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Her employer was the city and it will end up paying a large part of the tab if she loses a lawsuit.

That's how it works in the USA.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Its rather funny that if this had been a white EMT this conversation would be about racism and there would be protests and riots brewing.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

shrubnose said:
Her employer was the city and it will end up paying a large part of the tab if she loses a lawsuit.

That's how it works in the USA.
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Cool, so the taxpayer is on the hook. So this goes from being a tragic and avoidable death at the hands of an incompetent idiot to being an example of an overly litigious society.

I don't really believe you though, I find it difficult to believe that the city would be on the hook, when her superviser was on the phone with her telling her to get in the house and respond to the call. There isn't anything more they could have done.
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

Peter Grimm said:
Cool, so the taxpayer is on the hook. So this goes from being a tragic and avoidable death at the hands of an incompetent idiot to being an example of an overly litigious society.

I don't really believe you though, I find it difficult to believe that the city would be on the hook, when her superviser was on the phone with her telling her to get in the house and respond to the call.
There isn't anything more they could have done
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Maybe you should tell that to the court which will be ruling on this.

:lol:
 
Re: Detroit EMT fired for refusing to help save distressed 8-month-old baby that died

VanceMack said:
What did she mean "these families"?
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Might have meant the parents were completely hysterical, which is understandable. I can remember my mom telling me about when I was about 2 and hit my head on a table, then later that night fell asleep at the dinner table. Well as you might expect, my mom freaked out, called 911, my granddaddy ran outside since the street we lived on was a hill with a lot of trees, to direct the ambulance to the right house. Well the way my mom tells it, I woke up again before they got there. They were actually really nice about it, saying they would rather find a healthy kid than one in distress. But my mom, not being reassured, insisted on taking me to the doctor anyway. But that's how parents get.
 
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