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Detroit EFM insults city and retirees

I intended to write that the border cities could claim the property before it would be put up for auction.

Either way - nobody is in the market. It is only the downtown, riverfront, and new center areas which are valuable - and those are the central city you want to keep. The surrounding neighborhoods are where all the poverty and problems are.
 
  • Create a more inviting business environment
  • Reduce spending and in turn property taxes to help increase business profitability.
  • Eliminate union control of the city and allow the market do determine the cost of labor.
  • Increase the effectiveness of education of the workforce to support business needs
  • Spend money wisely on improvements to the city to make it a nice place to live and work
  • Increase the effectiveness of the police force and reduce crime by holding the PD accountable for results


This is just a short list - you should know this.

Why should I know this?
 
Yup- 20 feet high and completely surrounding the city.

Once completed, fill it with water.

Which would do what exactly to save the city?
 
Haymarket, he never said anyone was fat. Are you, by chance, overweight or have a history of obesity?

No. I run 2000 miles a year and have done so since 1976. And that includes a bunch of marathons - in Detroit.
 
I'm not really sure what your question has to do with anything said.

It was answered by somebody who said we should implement an idea which would result in drowning all the people in the city and destroying their private property.
 
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It's not anything big that Toronto has done that could necessarily be replicated in other cities as a "cure" for decline. It's more that the people here, city government, government workers, and the citizens as a whole take a lot of pride in our city and we're constantly ragging on about keeping the streets clean and keeping graffiti away and Toronto is now one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world because we welcome people from all over and we enjoy and participate in their various cultures with festivals throughout the city celebrating Italians, Greeks, the Caribbean, etc. We're also pretty open minded and accepting of gays and the gay culture with one of the world's largest populations and pride weeks. I guess we're a pretty open and accepting city and if newcomers bring their prejudices and homeland fights with them, we quickly tell them it's not acceptible here. And out city government supports all of these cultural and ethnic activities with grants and public service supports as part of having a vibrant community.

We've got problems with black youth crime and gangs, and drug trade problems like most big cities, but we don't just accept it - we work hard to contain it. We have special police divisions that patrol areas on foot, working with these communities to try to help root out the trouble makers. We recently had a very large police action, over 1,000 officers plus fire, paramedics, ambulances, etc. attend one social housing apartment building and raid the whole building, rounding up the drug pushers, gang-bangers, etc., confiscating illegal guns, drugs, etc. and the law abiding residents of the building were really happy it happened and it made their lives easier at least for a little while - there's no guarantee the gangs and criminals won't try to find a way back, but the residents will be watching and trying to make sure it doesn't happen.

The Mayor is out every year collecting garbage one day, painting over graffiti another, painting park benches and picnic tables, bringing the community together to keep the city clean and liveable. Setting an example and the business community gives their workers time off to participate in these kinds of things to give back to the city.

These are just small examples of being diligent and keeping a lid on problems before they fester. There are some run-down places in Toronto but nothing like most big cities and there aren't what I'd call ghetto neighborhoods where people just exist rather than live.

Detroit's gone way to far for any of this now - I said on a thread about Detroit a long time ago that the State of Michigan should pass legislation that confiscates any abandoned property in the City of Detroit and razes it to the ground and replaces it with grass/parkland. Remove the blight that meets the eye in so many corners of the city and then let those properties be purchased or give them away to people willing to come in and develop them with new homes and businesses and provide incentives to get people in. Give city workers incentives to actually live in the city that pays them through these types of programs so that they can keep money they spend in the city as part of their tax base. But it's going to take hundreds of billions of dollars over many, many years to get Detroit moving forward again - but I think it could and should be worth the effort.

Thank you for the honest reply and all the detail.

Toronto is a great city and you seem to work hard to keep it that way. Your people are to be praised and lauded for that.

Some of your suggestions were indeed tried here. We used to have a residency rule for city workers until the State of Michigan passed a law killing that ability. Bye bye workers and their money.

I agree about the razing of abandoned houses - sadly we have about 90,000 of them and it currently costs about 10 grand each to get rid of them and turn the lot into grassland. And thats non union labor by the way.
 
It was answered by somebody who said we should implement an idea which would result in drowning all the people in the city and destroying their private property.

Sure because anything you just said makes sense.

Do you ever get tired of being such a hack?
 
Sure because anything you just said makes sense.

Do you ever get tired of being such a hack?

Name calling. Nice tactic which furthers debate. Of course, it does fit in with Kevyn Orr calling the people of Detroit stupid names so you are in like company.

Here is what they said when I sugested the building of a Berlin Wall to keep the people from leaving

Yup- 20 feet high and completely surrounding the city.

Once completed, fill it with water.

that was the suggestion of SMTA.
 
It was answered by somebody who said we should implement an idea which would result in drowning all the people in the city and destroying their private property.

Tsk, tsk - another lie!

Show me where I advocated the loss of any life.

Your dishonestly is very disappointing!
 
Tsk, tsk - another lie!

Show me where I advocated the loss of any life.

Your dishonestly is very disappointing!

You wanted to be all big and bad and loud and proud with your flippant comment and now you shrink from it when the consequences are so easy to see.

Originally Posted by haymarket
And what should the City government have done about it? A Berlin Wall perhaps?

your reply

Yup- 20 feet high and completely surrounding the city.

Once completed, fill it with water.

putting 700,000 people in a 20 foot deep pool surrounded by a wall would be murder. Of course, that is why you said it in the first place. It would also destroy the property of people even if they were able to survive or get away from such an evil idea that reminds one of the atrocities in World War 2.

But then you knew that when you wrote the words in the first place which is why you wrote them.
 
Kevyn Orr calling the people of Detroit stupid names

This whole "we should be offended because a guy called people a stupid name" thing reminds me of a quote:

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

Can someone name the movie? :D
And should humanity be offended?
 
This whole "we should be offended because a guy called people a stupid name" thing reminds me of a quote:

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

Can someone name the movie? :D
And should humanity be offended?

MEN IN BLACK.

And don't you think Kevyn Orr should know better than to say the things he said and offend the people of Detroit even more? At this point he has the power and jokes about being a benevolent dictator and people being dumb and lazy are only really dumb moves to make for a person in that position.

Its bad enough that this publicly pisses on the Lincoln idea of a government of the people, by the people and for the people but not Orr has to pile on with name public calling in the Wall Street Journal? Not very wise to say the least.
 
MEN IN BLACK.

And don't you think Kevyn Orr should know better than to say the things he said and offend the people of Detroit even more? At this point he has the power and jokes about being a benevolent dictator and people being dumb and lazy are only really dumb moves to make for a person in that position.

Its bad enough that this publicly pisses on the Lincoln idea of a government of the people, by the people and for the people but not Orr has to pile on with name public calling in the Wall Street Journal? Not very wise to say the least.

Like I said, if you are offended by the truth, you gots problems. I would also counter your second claim about pissing and Lincoln by saying that Detroit, including its people, have proven incapable of successfully governing themselves. At that point, it is the duty of the PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN to step up. One could say that Kevyn Orr, being appointed by the People's Governor of Michigan, is simply enforcing the will of the people of Michigan on Detroit after the people there proved themselves incompetant at successful self-governance. Orr is therefore "of the people" of Michigan, granted his powers "by the people" of Michigan, and acts "for the people" of Detroit and Michigan. That the people of Detroit can't see that what he is doing is good for them is unsurprising, considering the state they got themselves in. I find your statements somewhat comical because Lincoln is the one president who sent congress home and essentially pulled a Julius Caesar on the American people during the Civil war. Do you consider Lincoln a benevolent dictator? The people of Detroit are going to see Orr as a dictator regardless of what he does; that is what he was brought in to do. That is why his "benevolent" dictator remarks ring true.
 
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Thank you for the honest reply and all the detail.

Toronto is a great city and you seem to work hard to keep it that way. Your people are to be praised and lauded for that.

Some of your suggestions were indeed tried here. We used to have a residency rule for city workers until the State of Michigan passed a law killing that ability. Bye bye workers and their money.

I agree about the razing of abandoned houses - sadly we have about 90,000 of them and it currently costs about 10 grand each to get rid of them and turn the lot into grassland. And thats non union labor by the way.

You're welcome, and in case it wasn't clear, I'm one conservative who believes that saving an important city like Detroit is one of the things I believe government should be involved in and should be responsible for. Government failed the people of Detroit up until now and government needs to make good on its responsibilities to Detroit.

I believe the bankruptcy proceedings should run their course because actions have consequences and the pain of those actions should be spread around. But once the dust settles, I'd like to see that the State and the Federal governments have worked on a way to restore a smaller, more efficient government that can deal with the core responsibilities of city governance and start to build back both a tax base and a population base to support the city governance going forward.
 
Like I said, if you are offended by the truth, you gots problems. I would also counter your second claim about pissing and Lincoln by saying that Detroit, including its people, have proven incapable of successfully governing themselves. At that point, it is the duty of the PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN to step up. One could say that Kevyn Orr, being appointed by the People's Governor of Michigan, is simply enforcing the will of the people of Michigan on Detroit after the people there proved themselves incompetant at successful self-governance. Orr is therefore "of the people" of Michigan, granted his powers "by the people" of Michigan, and acts "for the people" of Detroit and Michigan. That the people of Detroit can't see that what he is doing is good for them is unsurprising, considering the state they got themselves in.

Evidently I believe a whole lot more in the right of the people to govern themselves that you do.
 
Evidently I believe a whole lot more in the right of the people to govern themselves that you do.

I value highly the right of the people to govern themselves. Do you consider the people of Michigan and the people of Detroit seperate entities? The people of Detroit at some point have to answer to the People of Michigan.
 
Government failed the people of Detroit

I believe the bankruptcy proceedings should run their course because actions have consequences and the pain of those actions should be spread around. But once the dust settles, I'd like to see that the State and the Federal governments have worked on a way to restore a smaller, more efficient government that can deal with the core responsibilities of city governance and start to build back both a tax base and a population base to support the city governance going forward.

The people of Detroit failed the people of Detroit by electing corrupt individuals who did not put the people of Detroit ahead of their own interests.

They are doing that using a person titled the "Emergency Financial Manager." You may have heard of him, his name is Kevyn Orr.
 
The left is truly shinning in its inability to accept responsibility for its failures and wants so badly to find a society to blame - only in this case their whole society failed.

WAKE UP AMERICA - DETROIT IS WHAT LIBERAL DEMOCRATS HAVE IN STORE FOR YOU!
 
The people of Detroit failed the people of Detroit by electing corrupt individuals who did not put the people of Detroit ahead of their own interests.

They are doing that using a person titled the "Emergency Financial Manager." You may have heard of him, his name is Kevyn Orr.

I appreciate that and agree. I'm talking about after bankruptcy. I hope the State retains control, abandons self-governance for a period of time, and the Feds also assist. This is new ground being covered here and all levels of government should be involved. I'd much rather see government use their resources (your taxes) on helping resurrect a city that can contribute than waste it on green energy pie in the sky, wars with no end, etc.
 
One man cannot save a city. It will require active participation by the people living there, if there is every any hope of Detroit becoming significant again, for anything besides crime and poverty.
 
You wanted to be all big and bad and loud and proud with your flippant comment and now you shrink from it when the consequences are so easy to see.



your reply



putting 700,000 people in a 20 foot deep pool surrounded by a wall would be murder. Of course, that is why you said it in the first place. It would also destroy the property of people even if they were able to survive or get away from such an evil idea that reminds one of the atrocities in World War 2.

But then you knew that when you wrote the words in the first place which is why you wrote them.

That is very offensive and you know it.

You have no idea about my thought process or intent.

Are you a soothsayer?
 
Like I said, if you are offended by the truth, you gots problems. I would also counter your second claim about pissing and Lincoln by saying that Detroit, including its people, have proven incapable of successfully governing themselves. At that point, it is the duty of the PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN to step up. One could say that Kevyn Orr, being appointed by the People's Governor of Michigan, is simply enforcing the will of the people of Michigan on Detroit after the people there proved themselves incompetant at successful self-governance. Orr is therefore "of the people" of Michigan, granted his powers "by the people" of Michigan, and acts "for the people" of Detroit and Michigan. That the people of Detroit can't see that what he is doing is good for them is unsurprising, considering the state they got themselves in. I find your statements somewhat comical because Lincoln is the one president who sent congress home and essentially pulled a Julius Caesar on the American people during the Civil war. Do you consider Lincoln a benevolent dictator? The people of Detroit are going to see Orr as a dictator regardless of what he does; that is what he was brought in to do. That is why his "benevolent" dictator remarks ring true.

Doubled
 
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