Detroit EFM insults city and retirees

[washunut]

racial polarization goes back to the beginning of the 20th century long before any riots took place. They were merely evidence of that sad reality.

This article pulls no punches and shows how both whites and blacks created one of the most racially polarized cities in the nation.

Detroit’s demise was decades in the making - The Washington Post

Detroit is the most segregated city in America

Most Segregated Cities Census Maps - Business Insider

I am sure you are correct. You know a lot more about Detroit than I ever will. It was my understanding though that there was a pretty big exodus of middle class whites after the riots. Which would exacerbate the problems the city has.

 

[haymarket]

I am sure you are correct. You know a lot more about Detroit than I ever will. It was my understanding though that there was a pretty big exodus of middle class whites after the riots. Which would exacerbate the problems the city has.

That is correct. No doubt about it. And in the years after that, the upper middle class African American left.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

You would have to pay to relocate the people to at least a comparable house and property. Who is going to do that and where does that money come from?

Since you never answer the question of where the money is going to come from to meet Detroit's financial obligations (pensions, debts, etc.), you have some chutzpah to ask the same of others.

However, I don't see where my idea costs money, or at least, that much money. Since there are reported to be so many abandoned properties in Detroit, I don't see that there will be that many people to pay to relocate. They have already given up their property rights.

Take those properties, consolidate them and where they are adjacent to other communities, the state can transfer that property to those communities for public use, development, etc. I see that even the current mayor proposed a plan to bulldoze 1/4 of the city.

So instead of putting up obstacles to everyone else's ideas, spend a few words proposing some solutions instead of worrying about the "feelings" of the good citizens of Detroit. Or are you living up to the reputation of Detroit as the only city in the United States to have surrendered?

 

[SMTA]

One does not need to read entrails or tea leaves to read your own words that you would flood an entire city of 143 square miles and wreak the havoc and destruction that would then ensue. That part is painfully obvious.



your reply



I agree that the very idea is highly offensive. Any thinking human being should be grossly offended at such a suggestion worthy of the worst tyrants in history.

Your intent was clear and unmistakable. Wipe away Detroit and everything in it. Your concern for the lives of 700,000 people and the property rights of the citizens as well as the public and corporate property involved is less than touching.

Any thinking human being would not assume what other folks think.

Your assumptions are less than touching.

Very disappointing!

 

[sawdust]

the roots of Detroit's failure came in two things

1- the loss of 2/3 of the city population and the jobs and tax base that went with that exodus
2- extreme racial polarization which fed into the first factor and only made it worse

So tell me how current Detroiters get blamed for an exodus of people, jobs and tax base that began over 60 years ago when most of the current population was not even alive?

You've only described some of the symptoms and avoided talking about the disease. Detroit was made prosperous by the auto industry and the declining population was a direct result of burgeoning labor costs and the resulting decentralization of auto manufacturing. Moving away from the UAW, both to right to work states and offshore reduced the cost to the consumer and salvaged auto company profits. Government Motors took it's bail out money and now manufacturers more of their vehicles in China than in the US. Environmental regulations moved the foundries that cast engine blocks to Mexico. Public sector unions negotiated fat deals with local government when money was loose but when money got tight the deals weren't sustainable. As a result, jobs left and people followed.

Detroit has been governed by liberal democrats for decades. When money was loose, they made poverty comfortable, they didn't use the resources of government to attract business. As a result, poverty and crime became commonplace. Those who could afford to flee to the suburbs fled.

Manufacturing has been slipping away from the country in general for decades. Labor costs and increasing government regulations make manufacturing offshore attractive. Detroit's fiscal problems run deeper however and most financial analysts place the blame for the current bankruptcy on Coleman Young who was elected to office in the seventies and served as it's mayor for 20 years. His policies nurtured poverty and encouraged wealthy Detroiters to flee to the suburbs. He established retirement policies for public sector union employees that made retirement funds insolvent when the economy tanked. He, according to many, is the father of the Detroit bankruptcy.

 

[haymarket]

You've only described some of the symptoms and avoided talking about the disease. Detroit was made prosperous by the auto industry and the declining population was a direct result of burgeoning labor costs and the resulting decentralization of auto manufacturing. Moving away from the UAW, both to right to work states and offshore reduced the cost to the consumer and salvaged auto company profits.

The move in Michigan was from City to Suburbs. Plants that used to be in Detroit moved to Wayne - Livonia - Sterling Heights - Plymouth - Wixom -Allen Park - Woodhaven - Flat Rock- Ypsilanti - Orion - Delta Township - Romulus and other places. They still were unionized with the UAW representing the workers and the wages were still the national standard.

The UAW has done very well in union membership in right to work states.

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2012/12/uaw_right-to-work_wrong_for_mi.html

Detroit has been governed by liberal democrats for decades.

The slide actually begun in the 1950's under two republicans - Louis Mariani and Alfred Cobo who were mayors between 1951 and 1961. Census figures in 1961 revealed that the once great city of 1.8 million had lost 10% of its population in that decade.

As for liberal democrats - there were a few - Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick come to mind. However, Dennis Archer was a moderate as is the current mayor Dave Bing.

Public sector unions negotiated fat deals with local government when money was loose but when money got tight the deals weren't sustainable. As a result, jobs left and people followed.

I would be happy to review the data supporting this claim.

they didn't use the resources of government to attract business.

Actually the opposite is true. The history of Detroit over the last thirty years is filled with enterprise zones, no tax zones, land giveaways to companies, heavy tax abatements, and special offices to assist business.

http://www.michiganadvantage.org/cm/files/fact-sheets/neighborhoodenterprisezone.pdf

http://www.degc.org/images/gallery/RZ 2011.pdf

http://www.degc.org/board-administration.aspx/detroit-brownfield-redevelopment-authority

Manufacturing has been slipping away from the country in general for decades. Labor costs and increasing government regulations make manufacturing offshore attractive.

And sadly our nation stood by and did relatively nothing about it abandoning manufacturing centers like Detroit to international predators taking advantage of our national weaknesses.

Detroit has been governed by liberal democrats for decades. When money was loose, they made poverty comfortable, they didn't use the resources of government to attract business. As a result, poverty and crime became commonplace. Those who could afford to flee to the suburbs fled.

The slide began in the decade of the 50's under two republican mayors when the city lost 10% of its population. Yes, we have had liberal democrats like Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick. However, we also have had moderates like Dennis Archer and the current mayor Dave Bing.

Detroit's fiscal problems run deeper however and most financial analysts place the blame for the current bankruptcy on Coleman Young who was elected to office in the seventies and served as it's mayor for 20 years. His policies nurtured poverty and encouraged wealthy Detroiters to flee to the suburbs. He established retirement policies for public sector union employees that made retirement funds insolvent when the economy tanked. He, according to many, is the father of the Detroit bankruptcy

While I am no fan of Young and credit (or blame) him for much of the exodus - I would be happy to review any verifiable data you can provide about the retirement funds claim that you just made. Young is something of a Frankenstein monster who wreaked havoc on the city that was felt long after his demise. Sadly, few want to look at who Victor Frankenstein was and how the doctor created that monster int he first place.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

So let me see if I understand you - not trying to be rude - its ok for private investors to buy bonds to "invest" in Detroit and lose everything but pension funds for detroit govt employees shouldn't be put into such investments?

Nope. It's not a union vs municipal bonds fight even though I've heard it been framed in such a way. Hedge funds can make a quick profit off Detroit's bond and pension obligations. This hurts both. They both lose.

Here is the greed and the mentality---

From: Reuters: Detroit’s municipal debt attracting hedge fund ‘vultures’ | MLive.com

Hedge funds could actually help the city get back on its feet, Lewis Feldman, who heads the public-private development practice at the law firm Goodwin Procter, told Reuters. They would chip away at the city’s debt, by buying it at rock-bottom prices then selling off chunks of it – still at prices below what it was originally bought for. The only party that would be on the losing end in such a situation is the investors who originally bought the bonds.