Democrats are for border security

[bullseyelqcs]

What do you think trump should do when faced with such a rigid position from the Democrats? He asked for wall funding and they took the position of NO and we wont discuss it either now or in the future. Do you expect him to just accept that answer and rubber stamp whatever Bill's they send him?

Pelosi and Schumer are dug in on appeasing the uber left who are not only opposed to any new border security but are advocating dismantling current security measures.

I'm not sure why your surprised that Trump is taking an extreme position when it's in response to an extreme counter position.


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You keep saying this. You have yet to produce a shred of evidence that proves it. Remember....this group took power AFTER the shutdown started. The failure is on the the outgoing, lame duck Republicans who couldn't come together to get a bill passed.

Sure, after they took over the House, they told the President no deal until the shutdown was over, but other than that, what you said is completely made up.

 

[Nickyjo]

No. It is like a jewelry store leaving it's door open and the jewelry in the display window when the business is closed, claiming they did this because they have a security camera and locking the door and putting the jewelry in a safe would just cause the jewelry to be stolen.

The Democratic Party is wasting $1 billion per day no different than throwing it into a fire - now more money that the entire 300 miles Trump wants to add to the 700 miles of existing Pelosi-Schumer border barrier. The question is not how much will those extra 300 miles cost, but now many billions and billions and billions of dollars will the Democratic Party burn to not have it.

You must have missed the part where Trump took credit for this mess.

 

[trouble13]

You keep saying this. You have yet to produce a shred of evidence that proves it. Remember....this group took power AFTER the shutdown started. The failure is on the the outgoing, lame duck Republicans who couldn't come together to get a bill passed.

Sure, after they took over the House, they told the President no deal until the shutdown was over, but other than that, what you said is completely made up.

I'm done debunking the false narrative of Republicans being the ones who blocked wall funding.

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[bullseyelqcs]

I'm done debunking the false narrative of Republicans being the ones who blocked wall funding.

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Well, I'll give you an A for the effort anyway. F for the result though...

I get it though....debunking that which is true is hard because of, you know, facts and all.

 

[trouble13]

Well, I'll give you an A for the effort anyway. F for the result though...

I get it though....debunking that which is true is hard because of, you know, facts and all.

Yeah all those no votes by Republicans really prove your case for you /sarcasm

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[cabse5]

No, this is not about just resisting Trump, it is about resisting hostage taking, flimsy whims, uninformed decisions and doing stupid things. Wouldn't you resist those if they applied to you? Would you resist if your wife was taken from you and they asked you to bend over and become their love slave, would you resistance if your kids asked for things that were whims but would hurt them for their future?

Flimsy whims would be not allowing walls. Stupid things would be not doing everything to secure the border as in not allowing walls and drones and E-Verify and whatever one can think of that's effective in securing the border (and ports of entry). Since many of you want to abolish ICE, there'd be one less thing to secure the border. No measure, even the ones you advocate, are 100% effective by, themselves, in securing the border.

I gather your hostage taking comment is your 'I/we resist Trump to the ends of the earth' comment. So, you do place resisting Trump above securing the border.:roll:

 

[Luckyone]

Flimsy whims would be not allowing walls. Stupid things would be not doing everything to secure the border as in not allowing walls and drones and E-Verify and whatever one can think of that's effective in securing the border. Since many of you want to abolish ICE, there'd be one less thing to secure the border. No measure, even the ones you advocate, is 100% effective by, themselves, in securing the border.

I gather your hostage taking comment is your 'I/we resist Trump to the ends of the earth' comment. So, you do place resisting Trump above securing the border.:roll:

What are you talking about? The Democrats want to improve border security and are against illegal entry into the United States but not by hurting innocent people to accomplish their goals. Would you be for hurting innocent 800,000 people to accomplish building a wall? That is what Trump is doing and as long as Trump is hurting innocent people, anyone with principles has to be against him "to the ends of the earth".

The principle of hurting innocent people to accomplish a goal is what is wrong. If you give in to such a principle you are opening the door to giving in to anyone with power that wants to accomplish a personal goal.

Let me ask you a question. If you were a government worker and did not have money to pay your mortgage and were on the verge of losing your home, did not have money for food and for medicines, would you be supporting Trump on his quest to build a wall?

 

[cabse5]

What are you talking about? The Democrats want to improve border security and are against illegal entry into the United States but not by hurting innocent people to accomplish their goals. Would you be for hurting innocent 800,000 people to accomplish building a wall? That is what Trump is doing and as long as Trump is hurting innocent people, anyone with principles has to be against him "to the ends of the earth".

The principle of hurting innocent people to accomplish a goal is what is wrong. If you give in to such a principle you are opening the door to giving in to anyone with power that wants to accomplish a personal goal.

How would one hurt innocent people by building the wall?

 

[Luckyone]

How would one hurt innocent people by building the wall?

Because he closed the government in order to get the funding for the wall. He can open the government and continue to ask for the funding, meaning that he is hurting innocent people by holding them hostage.

 

[cabse5]

Because he closed the government in order to get the funding for the wall. He can open the government and continue to ask for the funding, meaning that he is hurting innocent people by holding them hostage.

Huh. I guess the dems could allow walls and drones and E-Verify and whatever one can think of (including ICE) to secure the border and the bill would be passed and the gov't would get funded so the onus is dems as well. I guess dems would rather not protect the southern border..and I guess the dems would rather gov't workers not get paid, too. It's the principle of the thing for dems (resist Trump).

 

[cabse5]

Because he closed the government in order to get the funding for the wall. He can open the government and continue to ask for the funding, meaning that he is hurting innocent people by holding them hostage.

You realize, if the gov't were to be reopened and a funding bill introduced and passed that didn't include the proper contingent of walls according to Trump, the gov't would, again, be without a border security bill because Trump wouldn't sign it? Do you think congress has the percentage to override his veto? Do you think congress would override his veto?:lamo. I'm laughing because they wouldn't because overriding the veto would be too controversial and hurt their reelection chances.

 

[Luckyone]

Huh. I guess the dems could allow walls and drones and E-Verify and whatever one can think of (including ICE) to secure the border and the bill would be passed and the gov't would get funded so the onus is on the dems as well. I guess dems would rather not protect the southern border..and I guess the dems would rather gov't workers not get paid, too. It's the principle of the thing (resist Trump).

First of all, this is a Democracy and everything should be decided by votes, whether you agree or not. The Democrats did not want Trump to win the election (they thought it was the worse thing that could happen) but when he won they have to accept and live with it. The same thing should apply with building of the wall. The problem is that Trump does not believe in the Democratic process and since he knows that he does not have the votes to build the wall, he has decided to build it by force by closing the government and hurting over 800,000 government workers and saying to the Democrats "if you care about people, you will give me what I want". This suggests that Trump himself does not care about people (since he is the one that made the decision to hurt them) and is using them as leverage to get what he wants. In addition, he is trying to get people like you think that he cares about your security. If he doesn't care about you being able to pay your bills, eat and buy medicines, and get paid for the work you do, how can you in all honesty think he cares about your security. Since when is shooting your right foot to help you right foot actually help you get well?

Does this explain it to you in a way you understand?

 

[cabse5]

First of all, this is a Democracy and everything should be decided by votes, whether you agree or not. The Democrats did not want Trump to win the election (they thought it was the worse thing that could happen) but when he won they have to accept and live with it. The same thing should apply with building of the wall. The problem is that Trump does not believe in the Democratic process and since he knows that he does not have the votes to build the wall, he has decided to build it by force by closing the government and hurting over 800,000 government workers and saying to the Democrats "if you care about people, you will give me what I want". This suggests that Trump himself does not care about people (since he is the one that made the decision to hurt them) and is using them as leverage to get what he wants. In addition, he is trying to get people like you think that he cares about your security. If he doesn't care about you being able to pay your bills, eat and buy medicines, and get paid for the work you do, how can you in all honesty think he cares about your security. Since when is shooting your right foot to help you right foot actually help you get well?

Does this explain it to you in a way you understand?

Dems 'living with and accepting Trump's presidency?' I stopped reading right there because I couldn't stop laughing:lamo

 

[Luckyone]

You realize, if the gov't were to be reopened and a funding bill introduced and passed that didn't include the proper contingent of walls according to Trump, the gov't would, again, be without a border security bill because Trump wouldn't sign it? Do you think congress has the percentage to override his veto? Do you think congress would override his veto?:lamo. I'm laughing because they wouldn't because overriding the veto would be too controversial and hurt their reelection chances.

This should prove to you what all of this is about. It is not about security, it is not about doing what the public wants, and it is not about upholding Democracy, it is all about getting re-elected and you are helping them in that respect. Do you feel good about yourself?

 

[ludin]

Got a link to prove that? I looked it up, found nothing.

I already posted it. took me 5 seconds to find it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You say that like the President couldn't put federal workers first and simply open the government and then come back an negotiate for the wall most people don't want.

That, however, isn't what hes doing. He took hostages. HE took hostages.

Ironically, the most applicable thing you said in that post was that we have no ****ing clue how much that 300 miles of wall is gonna cost, because the one thing we are all sure of is that 5 billy isn't gonna cover it.

The democrats want stolen tax dollars flowing to union government workers, if they don’t give up border wall money to reopen the government they won’t give it up period. Pelosi has said so much. Leave the government shut down until the next election if need be.

 

[cabse5]

This should prove to you what all of this is about. It is not about security, it is not about doing what the public wants, and it is not about upholding Democracy, it is all about getting re-elected and you are helping them in that respect. Do you feel good about yourself?

Trump wants walls as PART of border security and it's part of the gov't funding bill because he knows congress won't pass a border security bill (nor comprehensive immigration) because the topics are too controversial and will hurt their reelection chances.

If the gov't is reopened without resolving the border security part of the funding, walls (and god knows what else) won't be included in border security and border security will be as porous as it is now.

You want this because you don't want to give Trump any win and would rather sacrifice border security to achieve the resist. And you want American borders to remain porous...and wish to give undocumenteds all the rights and privileges of being American once they set foot in America.

Because these undocumenteds don't come from ****hole countries...

 

[Luckyone]

Trump wants walls as PART of border security and it's part of the gov't funding bill because he knows congress won't pass a border security bill (nor comprehensive immigration) because the topics are too controversial and will hurt their reelection chances.

If the gov't is reopened without resolving the border security part of the funding, walls (and god knows what else) won't be included in border security and border security will be as porous as it is now.

You want this because you don't want to give Trump any win and would rather sacrifice border security to achieve the resist. And you want American borders to remain porous...and wish to give undocumenteds all the rights and privileges of being American once they set foot in America.

Because these undocumenteds don't come from ****hole countries...

Cabse, you seen to now be repeating yourself trying to make your point and I have no desire to go and re-hash all the arguments regarding the benefits of a wall versus the cost and the money going to other means. Those have been argued ad nauseum and it seems you are still on the side that a border wall is necessary. It isn't, PERIOD!

Do not try to make me the fall guy for being against the border wall and against Trump for trying to get it built. Let me put it straight. I AM for border security but against building of the wall except in those rare cases where it could be built and it would be a positive (which is not across the entire border with Mexico). I am totally against anyone using their office for hostage taking and will be no matter what. In my life, principles are the #1 thing of value (bar none) and I will not give in on my principles even at the expense of my life. The President of the United States should be the same and he isn't. He is a man without ethics, morals, principles or humanity and such a person belongs in the gutter and not running even a country with only 2 people in it, much less one with 350 million.

 

[cabse5]

Cabse, you seen to now be repeating yourself trying to make your point and I have no desire to go and re-hash all the arguments regarding the benefits of a wall versus the cost and the money going to other means. Those have been argued ad nauseum and it seems you are still on the side that a border wall is necessary. It isn't, PERIOD!

Do not try to make me the fall guy for being against the border wall and against Trump for trying to get it built. Let me put it straight. I AM for border security but against building of the wall except in those rare cases where it could be built and it would be a positive (which is not across the entire border with Mexico). I am totally against anyone using their office for hostage taking and will be no matter what. In my life, principles are the #1 thing of value (bar none) and I will not give in on my principles even at the expense of my life. The President of the United States should be the same and he isn't. He is a man without ethics, morals, principles or humanity and such a person belongs in the gutter and not running even a country with only 2 people in it, much less one with 350 million.

Then you are for building walls for border security in some instances. So is Trump. Do you think 5 billion could cover the cost to build a wall for the entire southern border? Huh?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

First of all, this is a Democracy and everything should be decided by votes, whether you agree or not.

Great Idea. No need for congress and the representative government we now have. Oh and no need for a president or a constitution like we currently have.

 

[Luckyone]

Then you are for building walls for border security in some instances. So is Trump. Do you think 5 billion could cover the cost to build a wall for the entire southern border? Huh?

No, $5 billion will not cover the building of the wall throughout the border with Mexico, but if he gets his $5 billion through hostage taking, the probabilities would favor him doing it again and again and again until he gets the $75+ billion that is needed. He is not talking about just building it in one location and giving reasons for it being a good idea at "that" location, he is talking about building a wall throughout the border.

In my opinion, the reason he wants to do that is as a physical example of his having been President and accomplishing something that people can see and point to. He is not building a wall for safety of the population, he is building a wall for his ego to be stroked and his legacy to be cemented in something people can see and touch.

By the way, why are you so interested in the wall being built? Illegal immigration is at the lowest it has been for 15 years and there has been no new news recently of illegal immigration causing any new problems. Why the rush to build a wall if the problem has ebbed substantially? Have you personally been affected by any illegal alien that has come through recently?

 

[Luckyone]

Great Idea. No need for congress and the representative government we now have. Oh and no need for a president or a constitution like we currently have.

What are you talking about? Votes are done through congress and the President has veto power. It is all based on the Constitution. It is the Democratic process that has been in place for 240 years. It is Trump that is trying to change it. I say "no", stay with what our forefathers built.

Are you for changes?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

Clearly the amount of people in this country illegally is way beyond a catastrophe. A few thousand might be acceptable but 10 million + only proves we need a wall, we need to double the number of agents, and double the money we spend capturing and prosecuting all these lawless people. Then once we actually start the process of securing our border we can do a study on how to complete the task. This study makes as much sense as FDR needed to do a study to decide what to do about Japan bombing Pearl Harbor. NOT. We need to get off our ass and get the wall started and more border patrol in place along with our military and start getting this crisis under control.


The only thing is we cannot let Trump take the credit for actually attacking and possibly solving this catastrophe. So it should wait until we have a democrat president and we can take credit for solving the problem. Oh wait the rich and powerful don't want to solve the problem. Never mind. Everything is fine. Millions of people violating our immigration laws is acceptable.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

What are you talking about? Votes are done through congress and the President has veto power. It is all based on the Constitution. It is the Democratic process that has been in place for 240 years. It is Trump that is trying to change it. I say "no", stay with what our forefathers built.

Are you for changes?

Our forefathers did not want a democracy deciding our laws but a representative government. These representatives would be our congress composed of the house and senate. In a democracy the people would vote on the laws. We don't vote on laws but elect representatives to vote on laws.

 

[Luckyone]

Clearly the amount of people in this country illegally is way beyond a catastrophe. A few thousand might be acceptable but 10 million + only proves we need a wall, we need to double the number of agents, and double the money we spend capturing and prosecuting all these lawless people. Then once we actually start the process of securing our border we can do a study on how to complete the task. This study makes as much sense as FDR needed to do a study to decide what to do about Japan bombing Pearl Harbor. NOT. We need to get off our ass and get the wall started and more border patrol in place along with our military and start getting this crisis under control.


The only thing is we cannot let Trump take the credit for actually attacking and possibly solving this catastrophe. So it should wait until we have a democrat president and we can take credit for solving the problem. Oh wait the rich and powerful don't want to solve the problem. Never mind. Everything is fine. Millions of people violating our immigration laws is acceptable.

Oh, I see now. Having 10+ million illegal aliens is not right but having 6+ million is okay? I say this because 60+% has come into the nation legally through Visas and overstayed. A wall will not stop them.

In addition, are you for spending our money intelligently or foolishly? How much of your money have you donated toward building a wall. Based on your strong comment I would guess you have put in at least 10% of your yearly income toward building a wall. Am I right?

Do you not feel that we should come up with the best plan overall to stop illegal immigration or is a wall that can be tunneled under or climbed above the best way to stop illegal immigration? Last night on the news it was said that over 250 tunnels have been already found where drugs and illegal immigrants are coming through. Does that mean that illegal immigration will be stopped by a wall? Hell no!

You can quote all the figures you want to make your point but what you should actually be doing is thinking about all the ways that we can reduce illegal immigration and come up with the best ways to do it. Does that make sense to you? How much should we spend on electronic surveillance, how much on border guards, how much on laser technology, how much on researching who is requesting visas and the probability of them overstaying their visit, how much on this, how much on that, and how much of it will affect our debt which we are all responsible for?

Nonetheless, why don't we start by you telling us how much you are willing to spend of your hard earned money to solve this problem.