Democrats are for border security

[Luckyone]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

 

[joko104]

No. It is like a jewelry store leaving it's door open and the jewelry in the display window when the business is closed, claiming they did this because they have a security camera and locking the door and putting the jewelry in a safe would just cause the jewelry to be stolen.

The Democratic Party is wasting $1 billion per day no different than throwing it into a fire - now more money that the entire 300 miles Trump wants to add to the 700 miles of existing Pelosi-Schumer border barrier. The question is not how much will those extra 300 miles cost, but now many billions and billions and billions of dollars will the Democratic Party burn to not have it.

 

[Mycroft]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

No.

We have the information we need concerning "the best ways to protect our borders" from the people who's job it is to do just that. They have said they want a number of things...including a wall. We don't need a "study". We need to put our trust in the people who are doing the job.

Sorry, but I'll need more from Clyburn than him saying "Trump does not have any credible information about border security". Clyburn needs to tell me WHY Trump's information is not credible.

The Democrats are taking part in this "hostage situation".

 

[bullseyelqcs]

No. It is like a jewelry store leaving it's door open and the jewelry in the display window when the business is closed, claiming they did this because they have a security camera and locking the door and putting the jewelry in a safe would just cause the jewelry to be stolen.

The Democratic Party is wasting $1 billion per day no different than throwing it into a fire - now more money that the entire 300 miles Trump wants to add to the 700 miles of existing Pelosi-Schumer border barrier. The question is not how much will those extra 300 miles cost, but now many billions and billions and billions of dollars will the Democratic Party burn to not have it.

You say that like the President couldn't put federal workers first and simply open the government and then come back an negotiate for the wall most people don't want.

That, however, isn't what hes doing. He took hostages. HE took hostages.

Ironically, the most applicable thing you said in that post was that we have no ****ing clue how much that 300 miles of wall is gonna cost, because the one thing we are all sure of is that 5 billy isn't gonna cover it.

 

[trouble13]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

So go do your study. We will wait.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Kal'Stang]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

What experts exactly? Seems to me that the experts would be those that actually patrol our border and interact with it every single day. And they say that walls work. Walls Work

 

[Rogue Valley]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

Yes. That is my position also. Trump has provided no data that his wall stops anything.

As a matter of fact, all 8 prototype wall sections put up near San Diego failed tests by the DHS.

 

[Luckyone]

No. It is like a jewelry store leaving it's door open and the jewelry in the display window when the business is closed, claiming they did this because they have a security camera and locking the door and putting the jewelry in a safe would just cause the jewelry to be stolen.

The Democratic Party is wasting $1 billion per day no different than throwing it into a fire - now more money that the entire 300 miles Trump wants to add to the 700 miles of existing Pelosi-Schumer border barrier. The question is not how much will those extra 300 miles cost, but now many billions and billions and billions of dollars will the Democratic Party burn to not have it.

Let me ask you what is your price for principles? How much money would it take for you to give up your principles? By your comment, I would venture to say you could be bought for as little as a can of Chili Beans.

This is not about the cost (Clyburn said so) but about the principles. Having a wall throughout the Mexican border would be a bad "sign" of who we are and by most experts on border security, would not be the best border security available. In addition, if the Democrats give in they would be saying that ransom works, meaning that in a few months from now Trump may want Congress to disappear and once again hold the country and innocent people for ransom. You give in to ransom once, and you will get ransom demands over and over again. It is no way for a Democratic government to be run. Trump is a spoiled child wanting sugar by the kilo and you are supporting such action occurring.

 

[Idiometer]

No. It is like a jewelry store leaving it's door open and the jewelry in the display window when the business is closed, claiming they did this because they have a security camera and locking the door and putting the jewelry in a safe would just cause the jewelry to be stolen.

The Democratic Party is wasting $1 billion per day no different than throwing it into a fire - now more money that the entire 300 miles Trump wants to add to the 700 miles of existing Pelosi-Schumer border barrier. The question is not how much will those extra 300 miles cost, but now many billions and billions and billions of dollars will the Democratic Party burn to not have it.

Your analogy fails and your blaming Democrats is also wrong.

We're talking about people, not things. You know, human beings ... men, women, and children. Only a tiny percentage of those who come to the border have any ill intentions. The overwhelming majority want to work and make a life for themselves and their families, just like your ancestors did.

Most of the drugs that are currently plaguing us are opioids, mainly fentanyl. That stuff is not coming over the border, it's coming from China via ports and airports. And the people behind the opioid epidemic are not Mexicans or Central Americans, they are our big pharmaceutical companies. They've made billions off the misery of addicts that THEY created, and are doing NOTHING to help. A wall won't do any good there.

We need some fencing in those areas most accessible, near border stations, but a wall all along the border is a medieval remedy for a modern problem. We need more Border Patrol agents and more judges and advocates, plus more processing facilities. And several dozen drones with the personnel to operate them.

This is not on the Dems. This is Trump's shutdown. He sad so himself.

 

[Luckyone]

So go do your study. We will wait.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

No, because it is a study that needs to be done by the government (not just the Democrats), given that the President should be involved. Isn't he supposed to be the one that makes the best decisions for our country. If the Democrats did it, would he listen to it? Probably not!

 

[Luckyone]

What experts exactly? Seems to me that the experts would be those that actually patrol our border and interact with it every single day. And they say that walls work. Walls Work

People can also do the job but robots do it better. This is not about what works but about what works best for the requirements.

 

[Rogue Valley]

If Trumps wall is so gosh darn wonderful, then this shouldn't even be possible.....

30 unaccompanied children were among 376 migrants who tunneled under border wall into Arizona

and from the cartel smugglers themselves.....

Trump says a border wall would ‘help stop drugs.’ El Chapo’s smugglers suggest it won’t.

CBP agent Melissa Lucio explains to Trump (and even shows him pictures) that people easily tunnel under the walls. Trump had no reply at all.

Bottom line, Trumps wall is a bad and impractical campaign promise.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

If Trumps wall is so gosh darn wonderful, then this shouldn't even be possible.....

30 unaccompanied children were among 376 migrants who tunneled under border wall into Arizona

and from the cartel smugglers themselves.....

Trump says a border wall would ‘help stop drugs.’ El Chapo’s smugglers suggest it won’t.

CBP agent Melissa Lucio explains to Trump (and even shows him pictures) that people easily tunnel under the walls. Trump had no reply at all.

Bottom line, Trumps wall is a bad and impractical campaign promise.

Thats gonna leave a mark....

 

[lwf]

What experts exactly? Seems to me that the experts would be those that actually patrol our border and interact with it every single day. And they say that walls work. Walls Work

Cute video. Here are some articles linked to actual studies:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/borders-and-walls-do-barriers-deter-unauthorized-migration

https://www.rand.org/blog/2016/09/why-a-border-wall-would-do-little-besides-waste-money.html

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-wall-wont-work

TLDR version:

YES. In certain very limited circumstances: namely concentrated, heavily-populated urban areas constantly patrolled by border guards, barriers are useful in aiding interception by slowing and raising the visibility of border crossers enough so that a nearby border patrol agent can make an arrest.

Everywhere else and in every other circumstance, walls DO NOT work.

Would the U.S. benefit from more and better barriers in border cities where we have a large number of border patrol officers? Yes. Do we need any walls at all outside of the border cities where there are few if any border patrol agents? No. They would not work and therefore would be an unnecessary expense.

 

[GDViking]

No.

We have the information we need concerning "the best ways to protect our borders" from the people who's job it is to do just that. They have said they want a number of things...including a wall. We don't need a "study". We need to put our trust in the people who are doing the job.

Sorry, but I'll need more from Clyburn than him saying "Trump does not have any credible information about border security". Clyburn needs to tell me WHY Trump's information is not credible.

The Democrats are taking part in this "hostage situation".

For someone who preaches against big gubbimnt you are trucking clueless.

All departments ask for, then lobby hard for far more than they need.

They do not budget for what they need to function properly but for a dream list, then when there is a surplus raises are given.

Oh and one of the most important things is to make damn sure you spend more than you have or your budget will be cut next budget.

 

[Kal'Stang]

People can also do the job but robots do it better. This is not about what works but about what works best for the requirements.

"done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders." And according to that link I provided you Walls are a part of what works "best".

 

[Kal'Stang]

If Trumps wall is so gosh darn wonderful, then this shouldn't even be possible.....

30 unaccompanied children were among 376 migrants who tunneled under border wall into Arizona

and from the cartel smugglers themselves.....

Trump says a border wall would ‘help stop drugs.’ El Chapo’s smugglers suggest it won’t.

CBP agent Melissa Lucio explains to Trump (and even shows him pictures) that people easily tunnel under the walls. Trump had no reply at all.

Bottom line, Trumps wall is a bad and impractical campaign promise.

So either it works 100% or its trash and shouldn't even be attempted? How's that work out for murder laws?

No one expects the wall to work 100% of the time under any and all conditions. To claim that those tunnels wouldn't have happened if walls worked is nothing more than BS. And a wall is not the only thing being proposed. But it is a component. One that both parties agreed on many times over the past several decades. Which is why parts of our southern border have walls. The only reason that Democrats are opposing it now is because its Trump.

 

[lwf]

No. It is like a jewelry store leaving it's door open and the jewelry in the display window when the business is closed, claiming they did this because they have a security camera and locking the door and putting the jewelry in a safe would just cause the jewelry to be stolen.

A better metaphor would be:

The border WITHOUT a wall in unpopulated areas is a glass front jewelry store with an unlocked door and the jewelry sitting out in the open.

A border WITH a wall in those areas is a glass front jewelry store with a locked door and the jewelry sitting out in the open.

Do you really think that locking that door is going to prevent that jewelry from being stolen? How much does a hammer cost?

 

[Kal'Stang]

Cute video. Here are some articles linked to actual studies:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/borders-and-walls-do-barriers-deter-unauthorized-migration

https://www.rand.org/blog/2016/09/why-a-border-wall-would-do-little-besides-waste-money.html

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-wall-wont-work

TLDR version:

YES. In certain very limited circumstances: namely concentrated, heavily-populated urban areas constantly patrolled by border guards, barriers are useful in aiding interception by slowing and raising the visibility of border crossers enough so that a nearby border patrol agent can make an arrest.

Everywhere else and in every other circumstance, walls DO NOT work.

Would the U.S. benefit from more and better barriers in border cities where we have a large number of border patrol officers? Yes. Do we need any walls at all outside of the border cities where there are few if any border patrol agents? No. They would not work and therefore would be an unnecessary expense.

I've read that first link before. Since you apparently didn't actually read it here's a summation of it...

Walls work...but it funnels those seeking to enter illegally into more dangerous areas such as deserts and therefore doesn't really work and costs some illegals their lives. Ergo: THINK OF THE LIVES!!! and because it costs lives walls don't work. It also ignores that China's Great Wall fell not due to illegal immigrants, but due to a determined army. No wall through out the entire human history has ever stood against determined invaders. That doesn't mean that walls don't help keep out those that don't have the capabilities of an army.

And no one has suggested that ONLY walls work. It's a combination of several things that make Walls effective. Which is why Trump has requested that money be spent on getting extra border patrol agents and technology to help detect tunnels being built and detecting drugs.

Didn't bother with the other two links. One is from a blog, the other is from the CATO institute which is a think tank. Not experts in the field of border security in the least.

 

[Luckyone]

"done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders." And according to that link I provided you Walls are a part of what works "best".

I saw the video and at no time did she do any comparison to other border security methods. No one has disputed the idea that under some circumstances walls do work but this is not about building a wall to fulfill Trump's promise to his base but about securing our borders in the best way possible, including the political and visual damages that such a wall would bring about.

Illegal immigration is NOT going to stop and that means that the wall is not the all inclusive answer to our illegal immigration ills. This means that we need to spend the money in ways that not only accomplishes physical determent in the best way but political as well as financial.

and by the way, this problem has been going on for decades and right now our illegal immigration problem is at the lowest point in 15 years, what is the rush? Why does the President have to hurt innocent people when the problem is at the lowest point it has been for ages? None of the other Presidents hurt innocent people trying to solve this problem when it was a bigger problem. Why is he not working with Democrats to solve the problem in a way that is bi-partisan so that the problem is solved to the agreement of all. This is NOT a crisis, why is he treating it as a crisis? I tell you why, it is because he is losing his base and it will cause him to lose the election and that is why he is doing it. Not because it is necessarily the best course of action but because it is the only course of action for his own personal benefit (not the American public).

 

[bullseyelqcs]

So either it works 100% or its trash and shouldn't even be attempted? How's that work out for murder laws?

You wanna know what the problem is...truly?

The President on multiple occasions has told us that if we give him what he wanted, we wouldn't have this problem any more. He just is incapable of making a true statement without it making him the greatest thing since sliced bread. The reason this is a problem is that instead of trying to convince someone that a solution is 70% effective, and that 70% is better than it currently is, he has backed himself into the position of trying to prove a solution is 100% effective because he simply couldn't proclaim he wouldn't be 100% in every way, and we both know he won't be.

No one expects the wall to work 100% of the time under any and all conditions. To claim that those tunnels wouldn't have happened if walls worked is nothing more than BS. And a wall is not the only thing being proposed. But it is a component. One that both parties agreed on many times over the past several decades. Which is why parts of our southern border have walls. The only reason that Democrats are opposing it now is because its Trump.

As to the red.....again, this proves how bad a negotiator he is. If what you say is true, then why is he willing to die on the hill of the wall and not attempt to get EVERYTHING else he wants. The answer is really simple....because a wall is a monument to his greatness. 25000 more border patrol agents and drones and cameras wouldn't be.

 

[lwf]

I've read that first link before. Since you apparently didn't actually read it here's a summation of it...

Walls work...but it funnels those seeking to enter illegally into more dangerous areas such as deserts and therefore doesn't really work and costs some illegals their lives. Ergo: THINK OF THE LIVES!!! and because it costs lives walls don't work. It also ignores that China's Great Wall fell not due to illegal immigrants, but due to a determined army. No wall through out the entire human history has ever stood against determined invaders. That doesn't mean that walls don't help keep out those that don't have the capabilities of an army.

And no one has suggested that ONLY walls work. It's a combination of several things that make Walls effective. Which is why Trump has requested that money be spent on getting extra border patrol agents and technology to help detect tunnels being built and detecting drugs.

I think we agree, then. Walls (or fences) work in cities so long as border patrol agents or other law enforcement are nearby. They don't work in the desert.

 

[Kal'Stang]

You wanna know what the problem is...truly?

The President on multiple occasions has told us that if we give him what he wanted, we wouldn't have this problem any more. He just is incapable of making a true statement without it making him the greatest thing since sliced bread. The reason this is a problem is that instead of trying to convince someone that a solution is 70% effective, and that 70% is better than it currently is, he has backed himself into the position of trying to prove a solution is 100% effective because he simply couldn't proclaim he wouldn't be 100% in every way, and we both know he won't be.

When has Trump ever said that a wall is 100% effective? The only ones touting that line are those that do not want the wall built.

As to the red.....again, this proves how bad a negotiator he is. If what you say is true, then why is he willing to die on the hill of the wall and not attempt to get EVERYTHING else he wants. The answer is really simple....because a wall is a monument to his greatness. 25000 more border patrol agents and drones and cameras wouldn't be.

He has been attempting to get everything that he wants. Which is why his proposals have included extra border agents and better technology to detect both drugs and tunnels.

 

[Kal'Stang]

I saw the video and at no time did she do any comparison to other border security methods. No one has disputed the idea that under some circumstances walls do work but this is not about building a wall to fulfill Trump's promise to his base but about securing our borders in the best way possible, including the political and visual damages that such a wall would bring about.

Illegal immigration is NOT going to stop and that means that the wall is not the all inclusive answer to our illegal immigration ills. This means that we need to spend the money in ways that not only accomplishes physical determent in the best way but political as well as financial.

and by the way, this problem has been going on for decades and right now our illegal immigration problem is at the lowest point in 15 years, what is the rush? Why does the President have to hurt innocent people when the problem is at the lowest point it has been for ages? None of the other Presidents hurt innocent people trying to solve this problem when it was a bigger problem. Why is he not working with Democrats to solve the problem in a way that is bi-partisan so that the problem is solved to the agreement of all. This is NOT a crisis, why is he treating it as a crisis? I tell you why, it is because he is losing his base and it will cause him to lose the election and that is why he is doing it. Not because it is necessarily the best course of action but because it is the only course of action for his own personal benefit (not the American public).

Political and visual damages? Oh you mean the walls that we currently have have done political damage? And that we should care so much about the visual damage that we should just get rid of all walls?

No one is claiming that we're going to stop illegal immigration. That is a fallacy. A red herring. But we do need to stem it as best as we can. Walls are a part of that. And they do help.

Just a note: I personally don't want walls. But to claim that they are ineffective is just bovine excrement.

 

[lwf]

He has been attempting to get everything that he wants. Which is why his proposals have included extra border agents and better technology to detect both drugs and tunnels.

If that's true, wouldn't a better tactic be for him to take the wall out of the proposal, (since it is only an imperfect aid to interception and not a 100% effective border-closing device,) get as much money as he can for border patrol personnel and technology, and then reopen the government? He can revisit his 'wall' request once the government is functioning again and border security is well-funded enough to actually make it happen.