Democrats are for border security

[Kal'Stang]

It's patently dishonest to portray Trumps wall as a panacea application. It's not. In the places where a wall can have an impact, a wall is already there.

Even in places where a wall is already existent, it can be circumvented by shovels and dogged determination. See Post #12.

Who said that it was a panacea application? I sure didn't. In fact I said quite the opposite. As the rest of my post points out...very pointedly.....and you ignored.

 

[tres borrachos]

If Trumps wall is so gosh darn wonderful, then this shouldn't even be possible.....

30 unaccompanied children were among 376 migrants who tunneled under border wall into Arizona

and from the cartel smugglers themselves.....

Trump says a border wall would ‘help stop drugs.’ El Chapo’s smugglers suggest it won’t.

CBP agent Melissa Lucio explains to Trump (and even shows him pictures) that people easily tunnel under the walls. Trump had no reply at all.

Bottom line, Trumps wall is a bad and impractical campaign promise.

Pictures are always good when talking to Trump. There were probably no nudes though, so I doubt she held his attention for very long.

So he had no reply to photographic evidence, and he's still continuing his charade. Wonderful.

 

[Bullseye]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

I believe it's an attempt to foster support to separating the wall from spending bill. Classic delay tactics - "let's do a study on it". A retired CBP as well as many current CBP officers have stated the benefit of physical barriers. The $5.7 billion Trump is requesting is not the entire cost of sea-to-sea walling. Beyond that, as large a number as $5.7 billion IS, it still represents about half a day's spending. So, if you want a "study" let's make it a concrete ('scuse the pun) by building the "strategic stretches" Trump is asking for and study the result before committing to more complete barrier construction.

 

[Luckyone]

Because I don't consider them "ransom demands"? I don't consider this a "hostage" situation? Democrats are using hyperbole to spin the narrative. Both "ransom" and "hostage" are nothing more than talking points. The government has shut down many times in the past and its only NOW considered a "ransom/hostage" effort? Pfft. Sorry but I don't give into buzz words.

I have however blamed both Trump, Republicans, AND Democrats for the shutdown. Both this time and the last time it happened when Obama was in office. Does that sound like someone that supports the shutdown?

I have also expressed many times how I think that there are better ways to reduce illegal immigration than a wall and have given examples of such ways. Should I list several of those ways again? Does that sound like someone that supports The Wall?

I may not support the wall, but I'm not going to claim that it would be or is ineffective. That would be false and a lie since I know better.

I am sorry, but you don't consider this a ransom demand?

Trump shuts the government down and then he says "I will not open it unless you give me what I want"

Here is the definition of Ransom. Tell me where this does not qualify.

ransom noun
Definition of ransom
1 : a consideration paid or demanded for the release of someone or something (give me a wall) from captivity (government workers)

 

[Kal'Stang]

I am sorry, but you don't consider this a ransom demand?

Trump shuts the government down and then he says "I will not open it unless you give me what I want"

Here is the definition of Ransom. Tell me where this does not qualify.

ransom noun
Definition of ransom
1 : a consideration paid or demanded for the release of someone or something (give me a wall) from captivity (government workers)

Ransom Law and Legal Definition

Nope, I do not. Do you consider it such during any other time in history that the government has shut down?

 

[ludin]

Your analogy fails and your blaming Democrats is also wrong.

We're talking about people, not things. You know, human beings ... men, women, and children. Only a tiny percentage of those who come to the border have any ill intentions. The overwhelming majority want to work and make a life for themselves and their families, just like your ancestors did.

Then there is a legal process to do that if they want to come here and work and make a better life that is legal and allows them to do it.

Most of the drugs that are currently plaguing us are opioids, mainly fentanyl. That stuff is not coming over the border, it's coming from China via ports and airports. And the people behind the opioid epidemic are not Mexicans or Central Americans, they are our big pharmaceutical companies. They've made billions off the misery of addicts that THEY created, and are doing NOTHING to help. A wall won't do any good there.

actually it is herion and other opioids. fentanyl is just the latest craze as it is cheaper.

We need some fencing in those areas most accessible, near border stations, but a wall all along the border is a medieval remedy for a modern problem. We need more Border Patrol agents and more judges and advocates, plus more processing facilities. And several dozen drones with the personnel to operate them.

The border patrol you know the people that actually work the job disagree with you. They say walls work very well compared to a piece of metal wire
strung across some land.

This is not on the Dems. This is Trump's shutdown. He sad so himself.

Actually this is the dem's shut down. schumer is the one that filibustered the bill back in december and refused to allow a vote on it.
that is what caused the shut down.

funny how libs can never rememer facts.

 

[joko104]

You say that like the President couldn't put federal workers first and simply open the government and then come back an negotiate for the wall most people don't want.

That, however, isn't what hes doing. He took hostages. HE took hostages.

Ironically, the most applicable thing you said in that post was that we have no ****ing clue how much that 300 miles of wall is gonna cost, because the one thing we are all sure of is that 5 billy isn't gonna cover it.

That is complete nonsense since Pelosi said specifically she will not negotiate over a Southern border wall even if the budget is passed - and 3 times before Democrats promised Trump if a budget was passed they would vote for funding a new section of the Democratic Party's border wall.

President Trump has taken no one hostage.

 

[Mycroft]

Because he, trump, to put it politely, exaggerates the numbers he quotes when he's on one of his rants against the democrats trying to get his 'campaign promise' fulfilled. If you haven't noticed, it's the republicans who are all over the place with this non issue. The democrats keep clearly repeating they are all for border security and money is not the issue. Open the government and then negotiate in good faith.

If you think his numbers are exaggerated, trot out the correct numbers.

Dems have an established history of promising to give something if they get something...and then breaking that promise. They are not to be believed when they say it again. So no...they need to negotiate first.

 

[trouble13]

Because Trump will laugh at it and disregard it. He does not read anything and he believes everything the Democrats say is garbage. If he didn't listen to his own people saying that Global Warming is a problem, a report that just came out a month ago by his own people, do you honestly believe he would pay attention to anything the Democrats bring him?

I dont know if we would listen or not. It would depend on the argument they make. That's their problem but if they want to get the gov reopened they to say something other than no wall, no discussion

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[Idiometer]

Then there is a legal process to do that if they want to come here and work and make a better life that is legal and allows them to do it.



actually it is herion and other opioids. fentanyl is just the latest craze as it is cheaper.



The border patrol you know the people that actually work the job disagree with you. They say walls work very well compared to a piece of metal wire
strung across some land.



Actually this is the dem's shut down. schumer is the one that filibustered the bill back in december and refused to allow a vote on it.
that is what caused the shut down.

funny how libs can never rememer facts.

Schumer didn't filibuster anything.

A bill was passed by the House. It included funding for various sensible border security measures, but not the wall, and it also included a solution for the DACA kids. Trump had promised to sign it, but overnight, Rush Limbaugh and Ann Couldter accused him of weakness, so he reneged on the promise, like he usually does. Because of that, McConnell refuses to bring the Senate version of that bill to a vote.

This is TRUMP'S shutdown, period. Just as he said.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

That is complete nonsense since Pelosi said specifically she will not negotiate over a Southern border wall even if the budget is passed - and 3 times before Democrats promised Trump if a budget was passed they would vote for funding a new section of the Democratic Party's border wall.

President Trump has taken no one hostage.

Provide the class the evidence of your above claim. I'll wait.

If you can't, then we can just assume you are full of **** and trying to lessen the load of protecting Trump on McConnell.

Here's your chance...prove your claim.

 

[ludin]

Ransom Law and Legal Definition

Nope, I do not. Do you consider it such during any other time in history that the government has shut down?

Why worry about the definition of words when they sound good in a 5 minute sound bit.
ransom, hostages.

they never used these before when obama had his government shut down. i wonder why that is?

 

[ludin]

Schumer didn't filibuster anything.

A bill was passed by the House. It included funding for various sensible border security measures, but not the wall, and it also included a solution for the DACA kids. Trump had promised to sign it, but overnight, Rush Limbaugh and Ann Couldter accused him of weakness, so he reneged on the promise, like he usually does. Because of that, McConnell refuses to bring the Senate version of that bill to a vote.

This is TRUMP'S shutdown, period. Just as he said.

In december the house republicans sent a funding bill to the senate to approve. right after midnight schumer and the democrats in the senate filibustered the bill.
this lead to the government shut down.

sorry you don't like facts but those are the facts no matter how much you want to ignore it.

 

[Fenton]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

LOL ! Why dont the use the last intelligent study by experts ? The one from 2006 that led to them voting FOR the 2006 Secure Fence Act ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

 

[joko104]

Let me ask you what is your price for principles? How much money would it take for you to give up your principles? By your comment, I would venture to say you could be bought for as little as a can of Chili Beans.

This is not about the cost (Clyburn said so) but about the principles. Having a wall throughout the Mexican border would be a bad "sign" of who we are and by most experts on border security, would not be the best border security available. In addition, if the Democrats give in they would be saying that ransom works, meaning that in a few months from now Trump may want Congress to disappear and once again hold the country and innocent people for ransom. You give in to ransom once, and you will get ransom demands over and over again. It is no way for a Democratic government to be run. Trump is a spoiled child wanting sugar by the kilo and you are supporting such action occurring.

It is not my principle to eliminate the United States as a country nor my principle to support the super rich continuing to want an endless flow of millions of uneducated immigrants so they can get house servants and lawn crews cheap or otherwise drive down wages of working people.

Did the rich even give you a can of Chili beans for their profiting at Americans' and the USA's expense?

Most of all, you betray your true opinion in this message contradicting our OP. You claim having a border barrier is "a bad sign," so why have a study other than as a false deception and waste of time and more for pointless delay when the answer is no regardless?

 

[justabubba]

That is complete nonsense since Pelosi said specifically she will not negotiate over a Southern border wall even if the budget is passed - and 3 times before Democrats promised Trump if a budget was passed they would vote for funding a new section of the Democratic Party's border wall.

President Trump has taken no one hostage.

well, no one except the 800,000 federal employees not receiving their paychecks

 

[cabse5]

Democratic representative Clyburn is presently on Bloomberg TV and he is saying the the Democrats are strongly for border security and he clearly stated that the amount of money for such an action is not a problem. Whatever is needed is what he said. Nonetheless, he also said that what needs to happen is for an intelligent study by experts done that would clearly state what are the best ways to protect our borders.

He did say that Trump does not have any credible information about border security and what is the best way to protect our borders and that all he is doing is trying to build the wall so he can fulfill his campaign promise to his base.

He went on to say that the Democrats will not give in to the hostage situation that Trump has created and that they will not talk or give in until the government shut down is over.

I personally believe this makes a lot of common sense, do you?

JUST RESIST TRUMP. Which makes dems not for border security and definitely not for walls.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Because I don't consider them "ransom demands"? I don't consider this a "hostage" situation? Democrats are using hyperbole to spin the narrative. Both "ransom" and "hostage" are nothing more than talking points. The government has shut down many times in the past and its only NOW considered a "ransom/hostage" effort? Pfft. Sorry but I don't give into buzz words.

I have however blamed both Trump, Republicans, AND Democrats for the shutdown. Both this time and the last time it happened when Obama was in office. Does that sound like someone that supports the shutdown?

I have also expressed many times how I think that there are better ways to reduce illegal immigration than a wall and have given examples of such ways. Should I list several of those ways again? Does that sound like someone that supports The Wall?

I may not support the wall, but I'm not going to claim that it would be or is ineffective. That would be false and a lie since I know better.

It is, he specifically threatened he would be happy to shut down government over a wall. He has said he would continue to shut down if he doesn't get his wall. What the hell do you call that? give me what I want or I'll keep the government shut down.

Just like Rauner did in Illinois. THat lasted 2 years

 

[Kal'Stang]

well, no one except the 800,000 federal employees not receiving their paychecks

Last I knew hostages weren't free to quit their jobs and walk around in public spaces. Which is exactly what those 800k federal employees can do (quit if they want) and are doing (walk around freely).

 

[Kal'Stang]

In december the house republicans sent a funding bill to the senate to approve. right after midnight schumer and the democrats in the senate filibustered the bill.
this lead to the government shut down.

sorry you don't like facts but those are the facts no matter how much you want to ignore it.

Could you link to the article that shows this please?

 

[ludin]

Could you link to the article that shows this please?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/21/tru...-shutdown-as-senate-votes-on-border-wall.html

 

[justabubba]

Last I knew hostages weren't free to quit their jobs and walk around in public spaces. Which is exactly what those 800k federal employees can do (quit if they want) and are doing (walk around freely).

hostages are only free to do what their hostage taker allows

 

[Kal'Stang]

hostages are only free to do what their hostage taker allows

And since 800k federal employees have full choice to do what they want they're not hostages.

 

[justabubba]

And since 800k federal employees have full choice to do what they want they're not hostages.

nope
some cannot go into work
others work but go without a paycheck
the hostage taker has made those determinations

 

[Kal'Stang]

nope
some cannot go into work
others work but go without a paycheck
the hostage taker has made those determinations

Learn what "hostage" means. Then get back to me.