Chris
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- Aug 8, 2005
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- Ontario, Canada
- Gender
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- Political Leaning
- Slightly Liberal
Chris said:Personally I see no reason why one can't be anti Zionist and pro Jewish. Zionism is a political movement, why should having a different political opinion translate into hate/intolerance?
I ask this because it increasingly seems that those who oppose Zionism are automatically written off as closet anti-Semitics.
What are your thoughts?
Godwin's Law is validated in fewer than ten posts. Not a record by any means, but disappointing all the same.jamesrage said:So I see the nazi is trying to justify why he hates jews.
Chris said:Personally I see no reason why one can't be anti Zionist and pro Jewish. Zionism is a political movement, why should having a different political opinion translate into hate/intolerance?
I ask this because it increasingly seems that those who oppose Zionism are automatically written off as closet anti-Semitics.
What are your thoughts?
You can be anti-fundamentalist and pro-Jewish.
superskippy said:Every Israeli is zionist in some sense of the word, because they all live here and support their own state. Zionism is the dream for a Jewish State and since all Israelis by de-facto are zionists in some sense of the word, and as are all Jew's I'd have to say with this tricky definition that you can of course not support Israel and still not be an Anti-Semite and still be supportve of the Jewish people, to say otherwise I think is absurd, but since you are opposed and critical of something that I would guess 98-99% of all Jew's support you are not "Pro-Jewish" since you are alienating one of our biggest beleif. Sorry if my wording is a bit confusing it's hard to explain.
Surenderer said:I agree although there is nothing more fundamentalist than giving specific group of people a land base on a 2000+ year old prophesy.........
Surenderer said:Is Israel suppose to be a state for only Jews?...is that the idea of Zionism? I honestly dont know...Suppose more and more Muslims or Christians move there....is that allowed?...would it still be considered a Zionist State?
galenrox said:And me and my buddy Swan are both somewhat supportive of Palestine in the Israel/Palestine debate, even if for only this reason, Israel has so much, and Palestine has so little, and yet Israel wouldn't until recently budge even the slightest ****ing bit.
Gardener said:Since Zionism is the notion that gives Jewish people self determination and a place safe from persecution (other than through terrorism), I would think the challenge would be to explain why one would wish to deny rights to this one group unless one harbors prejudicial attitudes against them.
Connecticutter said:Israel has made many concessions. The histroy of Israel follows this pattern: Israel is attacked, they take territory for security, they give up this territory in exchange for peace. Recently, there was the Olso Accords, the 2000 offer by Ehud Barak (which Arafat rejected), and now the unilateral disengagement. The Palestinian Authority, on the other hand, has not given up any claims.
Connecticutter said:I believe about 23% of Israel is non-Jewish. They are considered citizens with equals rights under the law as anyone else. No one (excepting kooks) wants to take away these rights. Clearly, the Jewish homeland does not have to be all Jewish.
Now let me ask you this: how many Jews do you think will be allowed to live in the new Palestinian state?
MiamiFlorida said:Let's see:
-Israel comprises 20% of what the British dubbed "Palestine". The other 80% is now in Jordan. Why aren't we talking about Jordan?
-30% of the population of "Palestine" (Jews) continously occupied this land for more than 2,500 years. I am not talking about the massive influx from Europe during the 20th Century.
-Have you checked how many Sephardic Jews were expelled from Spain 500 years ago and settled in "Palestine"?
-The "Palestinian people" are a British invention. There's no Palestinian language, no Palestinian culture. What we call "Palestinians" today were mostly, at the time of the creation of Israel, Arabs from sorrounding countries and nomads. They had no national or cultural identity. Find me a map of Palestine printed prior to 1925.
-In fact, "Palestinians" and Jews are both Semites...the same people.....differentiated only by their religion.
This is not about a "prophesy". Judea existed long ago. Jerusalem was not founded by Christian nor Moslems. It was founded by Jews.
Red_Dave said:What about the palestians right to um......exist without haveing there homes destroyed? The jewish people have rights but they dont have the right to randomly invade an existing country just because they lived there a couple of thousands years ago? Im anglo-saxon and saxons are orgionally from germany. If Anglo saxons randomly decided to found a "national homeland for the anglo saxons" in germany, despite the fact the germans have lived there for thousands of years there would be an outcry. Why is ireael any different?
galenrox said:yeah, it's a rough issue. My girlfriend is in alpha epsilon phi, a mostly jewish sorority, so needless to say, I hang out with A LOT of jews. And me and my buddy Swan are both somewhat supportive of Palestine in the Israel/Palestine debate, even if for only this reason, Israel has so much, and Palestine has so little, and yet Israel wouldn't until recently budge even the slightest ****ing bit.
And once I got drunk and mentioned this to these girls, and all of a sudden it was like I had just said "I like Hitler, and he should've finished you all off", which don't get me wrong, I've probably said something along those lines to several of my jewish friends (always in jest, no PC police neccisary), but here I just presented a serious political argument, and they took it as anti-semitism. It seems as if a lot of jews act in a way that a lot of Americans act, that somehow criticising a government is criticising the people, like if you criticize Bush, then a lot of people consider you not patriotic and some actually think you hate America, and likewise if you criticize Israel, a bunch of jews all of a sudden think you're anti-semetic.
I personally think if they want it so bad, they should get it, but I think the same goes for Palestine, so I think they're on the right track and they should just stop being dicks about the whole issue.
Surenderer said:Not intrested in debate was asking a question.....but your facts are so ridicoulous that it is tempting.....next time link your sources though
Surenderer said:Sorry but I was asking a legitmate question from Skippy because I was curious....not interested in getting into a Israel Palestine debate with you so find someone else to twist their intentions around:2wave:
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