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Can the left and right even converse at this point?

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You have a YUUUGE double standard working there.....

Democrats who claimed the elections were stolen are traitors if we apply YOUR "logic".
We aren't Presidents or Presidential candidates, like Trump. How can we undermine democracy? We can't. We are not in a POSITION to do so.

And we're not supporting someone who said the election was stolen, without evidence. Like Trump supporters are. So you are simply wrong.

Why are you supporting someone who claims the election was stolen from him, with no evidence? It's un-American. It's wrong. I've never done that. No Democrat or liberal on this board has.
 

Fledermaus

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We aren't Presidents or Presidential candidates, like Trump. How can we undermine democracy? We can't. We are not in a POSITION to do so.

And we're not supporting someone who said the election was stolen, without evidence. Like Trump supporters are. So you are simply wrong.

Why are you supporting someone who claims the election was stolen from him, with no evidence? It's un-American. It's wrong. I've never done that. No Democrat or liberal on this board has.
Democrats on this board have insisted to this day elections were stolen.

They are, by your logic, traitors.

Why do you defend people who, by your logic, are traitors?
 

Fledermaus

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Why are you supporting someone who claims the election was stolen from him, with no evidence? It's un-American. It's wrong. I've never done that. No Democrat or liberal on this board has.
Please show where I have supported Trump making claims the election was stolen from him.

One post, one quote....

You are big one BS accusations... Aren't you?
 

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I read a column that made lots of sense

Joe Biden or Donald Trump will never visit me in my home, stand beside me at the funeral home or dance at my wedding. I will not be receiving any calls from either of them to pray for me during sickness or to check on how my children are doing. I probably will never sit in a room with them to visit, laugh and tell funny stories or just to hang out over a cup of coffee. I do not personally know either one. I welcome the opportunity to visit with either of them, but doubt it will happen.


I feel like I know them because I have seen them on television my entire life and heard them speak. I have been very emotional about them these last few months and felt very conflicted about my vote. I have written words, spoken words and stood on the firing line for my candidate. Most importantly, I voted. I have also received my share of emails, and real mail from people just as adamant about their candidate, often expressed in very colorful words.


Sadly, over the last few months, I have seen people whom I have known for many years take as strong or stronger stance than I’ve taken. The distance between us has grown farther and the climate colder. Acquaintances, life-friends, school buddies and even family.
...more here
 
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Democrats on this board have insisted to this day elections were stolen.

They are, by your logic, traitors.

Why do you defend people who, by your logic, are traitors?
You still don't get it. We would never support a candidate that says the election was stolen from him, without any evidence.

If Biden lost in 2024 and acted the way Trump is acting right now, we would speak out against him. Because we put country first. Because we are NOT traitors.

Trump supporters are traitors.
 
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Please show where I have supported Trump making claims the election was stolen from him.

One post, one quote....

You are big one BS accusations... Aren't you?
That wasn't the question -- Are you still supporting Trump? I didn't ask you if you agreed with him about the election being stolen.
 

Integrityrespec

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The blind and brainwashed.

Just how much from Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and the boys and girls at Faux News been proven to be lies?

Of course for the deplorables truth has nothing to do with it. They are true believers. Blind Faith!
Not honestly. Democrats can't tell the truth.
 

Fledermaus

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That wasn't the question -- Are you still supporting Trump? I didn't ask you if you agreed with him about the election being stolen.

YOU made an accusation: Why are you supporting someone who claims the election was stolen from him, with no evidence?

Support or retract.
 

What if...?

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This is a very good observation. I take it to mean that people are speaking from an entirely subjective platform. Whatever informs their worldview has been cobbled together and cemented within their social context. And in that social context their views and understandings are cemented and affirmed.

But when they are forced to step out of their *bubble* as it is called, they receive a shock when their 'reality' is confronted. And those who challenge or confront their views may indeed, to them, be 'agents of the evil'. This is so, in their eyes, because they are thoroughly convinced that they are right and they have pure right on their side. How could anyone disagree therefore? Only the benighted, only the deliberately malicious cannot see the truth that informs them.

What I find interesting is that -- and this is my perception -- it is the Left and the Progressives that really go off into strange elliptical orbits. I would certainly agree that the political Right has its own areas of bias though.

It is very hard to wade through all of this. Why? Because it is in essence psychological. It does not necessarily have to do with facts or even factual reality (as the phrase is used, as if the one using it is situated in 'reality' and not an elaborated interpretation of it!) but with versions of perception and view that are often more emotional and sentimental than anything else.
Propaganda is a tool that exploits emotion to cloud reason.
 

Fledermaus

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You still don't get it. We would never support a candidate that says the election was stolen from him, without any evidence.

If Biden lost in 2024 and acted the way Trump is acting right now, we would speak out against him. Because we put country first. Because we are NOT traitors.

Trump supporters are traitors.
I bolded the irrelevant nonsense.

Democrats on this board have insisted to this day elections were stolen.

They are, by your logic, traitors.

Why do you defend people who, by your logic, are traitors?
 
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YOU made an accusation: Why are you supporting someone who claims the election was stolen from him, with no evidence?

Support or retract.
Your response below does not answer my question --

Please show where I have supported Trump making claims the election was stolen from him.
I asked why you still support Trump. I didn't ask if you agreed with him about election fraud.
 
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I bolded the irrelevant nonsense.

Democrats on this board have insisted to this day elections were stolen.

They are, by your logic, traitors.

Why do you defend people who, by your logic, are traitors?
Nope. The bolded part was the relevant part.

Biden supporters would NEVER support Biden lying about election fraud. But MOST Trump supporters still support Trump, despite his election fraud lies.

That's the difference. The only difference that matters.
 

TurtleDude

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Nope. The bolded part was the relevant part.

Biden supporters would NEVER support Biden lying about election fraud. But MOST Trump supporters still support Trump, despite his election fraud lies.

That's the difference. The only difference that matters.
You cannot prove the veracity of that statement
 

Integrityrespec

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I can think of some reason why having good faith, respectful, debate and discussion seems impossible these days:

1. Only having two parties who have each moved farther apart over the past few decades. This appears to have exacerbated the "us vs them" mentality.

2. Social media has led to sound bite information and sound bites masquerading as discussion.

3. Allowing the farthest "left" and "right" speak for the entire group.

4. Dehumanizing those who disagree with you. Using terms like "evil".

5. Each side positioning each and every election and decision by the government as existential. Not all issues are existential. Don't use buzz words to avoid being challenged.

6. Fear of being challenged and possibly being wrong about something...anything, when it comes to politics or life in general.

Now that I've listed just a few of the reasons, I don't have very much hope that things will change soon. I think what may help is dismantling the two party system, allowing other voices who are more moderate, giving voters more nuanced options, stopping the RNC and DNC from controlling the system and which candidates can be heard.
Party leadership, our elected representatives, the biased media, those are our problems. Those working for the voters are actually working the vote and doing little for "we the people".
 

Integrityrespec

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Nope. The bolded part was the relevant part.

Biden supporters would NEVER support Biden lying about election fraud. But MOST Trump supporters still support Trump, despite his election fraud lies.

That's the difference. The only difference that matters.
Biden voters are supporting Biden lying and the rest of the democrats. If you aren't worried then demand a true investigation into the questionable vote tabulations, lack of signatures, ballot dumps, more votes than registered voters. Do some research and see if you still think something isn't fishy.
 
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You cannot prove the veracity of that statement
I think we both know it's true. Liberals are simply more decent people than Republicans.

Look at Obama. Look at Biden. Look at the racist bully Trump. Case closed.
 

TurtleDude

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I think we both know it's true. Liberals are simply more decent people than Republicans.

Look at Obama. Look at Biden. Look at the racist bully Trump. Case closed.
liberals/Democrats are not more decent people than Republicans. look at LBJ, look at Robert Byrd, look at the party of the Klan and Jim Crow laws.
 
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Biden voters are supporting Biden lying and the rest of the democrats. If you aren't worried then demand a true investigation into the questionable vote tabulations, lack of signatures, ballot dumps, more votes than registered voters. Do some research and see if you still think something isn't fishy.
Biden isn't claiming election fraud. Trump is, with no evidence. What you're talking about just isn't relevant to the conversation.

I don't need to do any research -- Why haven't any Trump attorneys presented evidence of voter fraud in court yet?
 
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liberals/Democrats are not more decent people than Republicans. look at LBJ, look at Robert Byrd, look at the party of the Klan and Jim Crow laws.
LBJ expressed remorse about Vietnam. Robert Byrd expressed remorse about his racist past.

Most Repugs are simply incapable of expressing remorse about ANYTHING. You have to be a decent person to feel remorse. Trump will never feel remorse about anything he's done.
 

TurtleDude

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LBJ expressed remorse about Vietnam. Robert Byrd expressed remorse about his racist past.

Most Repugs are simply incapable of expressing remorse about ANYTHING. You have to be a decent person to feel remorse. Trump will never feel remorse about anything he's done.
your stereotypes and blanket statements are oozing mendacious dishonesty. You are lying constantly as you try to pretend Democrats are somehow better people than republicans. Sorry, that is bullshit.
 
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your stereotypes and blanket statements are oozing mendacious dishonesty. You are lying constantly as you try to pretend Democrats are somehow better people than republicans. Sorry, that is bullshit.
It's not pretending. It's simply true. Repugs support an authoritarian who is lying about election fraud. Democrats would never do that.

On the rare occasions that a Repug does show remorse, they usually end up leaving the party. Because they finally realize the Repug Party is bad news. Like the Lincoln Project Republicans.
 

TurtleDude

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It's not pretending. It's simply true. Repugs support an authoritarian who is lying about election fraud. Democrats would never do that.

On the rare occasions that a Repug does show remorse, they usually end up leaving the party. Because they finally realize the Repug Party is bad news. Like the Lincoln Project Republicans.
Democrats caused black rates of illegitimacy to go through the roof. Democrats have subjected blacks to the racism of lowered expectations. Democrats were supporting looting and rioting while attacking our first responders. Democrats have created multigenerational addiction to government handouts. so stop pretending your party's shit don't stink
 
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Democrats caused black rates of illegitimacy to go through the roof. Democrats have subjected blacks to the racism of lowered expectations. Democrats were supporting looting and rioting while attacking our first responders. Democrats have created multigenerational addiction to government handouts. so stop pretending your party's shit don't stink
Even if all that were true, we're still not trying to overturn an election, with bullshit claims of voter fraud.

Only Repugs are doing that, which makes Repugs much worse. Which makes Repugs traitors.
 

TurtleDude

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Even if all that were true, we're still not trying to overturn an election, with bullshit claims of voter fraud.

Only Repugs are doing that, which makes Repugs much worse. Which makes Repugs traitors.
your opinion means nothing to me. Your silly bullshit about calling Republicans traitors is just that -silly bullshit.
 
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