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Can drunk people consent to sex?

Can drunk people consent to sex?

  • Drunk men cannot consent, but drunk women can

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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    52

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It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

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OrphanSlug

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The problem with this sort of thinking is always the same. What is the definition of drunk? As in, are we looking for some BAC level as the line in the sand?

If so, how close is that line to others we have already established? If not, why not?
 
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Not sure about everyone, but I sure can ! :)
 

DaveFagan

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It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

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I think it is a bogus issue. Those Social Watering Holes where the horny gather to relax their inhibitions serve the purpose precisely. The decision to get blistered, either to the max or slightly, is the first and most significant link in the chain.
 

fredmertzz

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If you choose to get drunk, you choose the consequences of your drunken decisions, as you understand your decisions will be impaired. Not to build a straw-man, but you don't get off the hook for choosing to drink and drive because somebody REALLY needed a ride, and you were too drunk to decide appropriately.
 

Paleocon

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It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

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If drunk rape laws were unforced as written, there would be mutual rape scenarios. It's silly and illogical, if a person can consent to committing the crime of rape, they can consent to fornication.

Involuntary drunkenness is of course different.
 

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Not sure about everyone, but I sure can ! :)

Is that what your username is referencing? You realize I'm asking about two people being engaged in the act right? :2razz:
 

DA60

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I volunteer to be the guinea pig.

Find an attractive woman who also wants to do the study.

I will get drunk, she can ask to have sex with me and let's see how I do.


;)
 

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I've known plenty of people who can get drunk enough to forget large blocks of time during their drinking.
The next day when they are sober, they can't remember all sorts of things they did.

This subject walks a very gray, and fuzzy line.

I would be inclined to say that yes, adults can indeed consent when they are drunk.
If they sober up and think "I didn't know what I was agreeing to last night." then the lesson is perhaps they shouldn't drink so much in the future.
(and please rush to store for "morning after pill" )
 

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I think it is a bogus issue. Those Social Watering Holes where the horny gather to relax their inhibitions serve the purpose precisely. The decision to get blistered, either to the max or slightly, is the first and most significant link in the chain.

Maybe that hits on a possible answer. Consent needs to be established before intoxication.
 

DA60

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Seriously, just skip it...almost nothing good comes from sex if one or the other is so drunk as to question their mental faculties.

As for legally?

I would not have sex with a woman whom I just met that is drunk...there are just too many possibilities that can go bad for me in the morning (no matter how honorable I acted the night before).

Just wait until you are both sober(ish).

If you cannot wait that long...seek help.
 

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Can we all agree that having regrets the next day is a completely separate thing from the question of whether or not is was rape?
 

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It depends on a lot of variables. I do agree that if the man and woman are equally drunk and both willingly engage in sex you can't later accuse the man of raping or taking advantage of the woman. If two drunk drivers swerve into each other's lanes at the same time who is responsible for the following crash? :)

The problem is when one person is very drunk and the other person isn't. The person who is not mentally impaired is responsible for not taking advantage of the person who is mentally impaired.

I know it gets complicated when discussing the legalities but I have to say that back when I was young and single common sense served pretty well in this area.
 

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Consent needs to be established before intoxication.

But you know damn well it doesn't always work that way.

Especially with college aged kids, and even over 18 years old but under drinking aged persons.

Hell, even with lots of seasoned drinkers married or not.
 

radcen

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It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

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I voted 'other'.

A person cannot consent to sex while drunk, at least that's the way we're heading. But, a person CAN consent to almost anything else while drunk, especially if the police are doing some sort of an investigation. Maybe it's just me, but there a disconnect there.

Does this mean that she cannot consent to sex if she's drunk, but if the police question him afterward and he says, while drunk, "Hell yeah I banged her!", that his confession shouldn't be invalid as well? The concept for her is diminished capacity to make rational decisions. Shouldn't he get the same standard for the same reason? Fair is fair.
 

SmokeAndMirrors

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It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

Like all things related to consent, this depends on a lot of things.

The issue of drunknness is one of power, at its most basic.

A drunk person may be conscious, but still somewhat unable to assess what's happening. They might not really know you're taking them back for sex. They may literally not feel you touching them (whiskey clit: it's a thing just as much as whiskey dick). With a partner who is sober or much closer to it, this is a clear manipulation of a person not capable of clear thought at that time.

...But this can be mitigated by prior consent. Just like kinky stuff like a "kidnapping scene" can be. Just like initiating sex during sleep can be.

And this is not actually complicated. Every decent human being has a clear internal compass of when they are getting meaningful consent from a partner. If you don't feel bad walking out of a bar basically sober, half-holding up a woman babbling nonsense back to your pad for sex when you have no clear indication that's what she really wants, you're a bad person. I think we could all agree on that, as most of us are decent human beings.

And yeah, you're also a bad person if you do that to a man. I have actually known a man who was sexually assaulted in that way. Like many men, he doesn't like to think of it as an assault (and I don't use "rape" unless the person feels comfortable with that term for a variety of reasons), but he was clearly taken advantage of by a much more sober woman who is a really ****ing terrible person, and had pretty malicious motives. And he does feel extremely negatively about it.

For two people who are both schlitzed, welp, I just hope they used a condom if they're not tested partners. It's not a rape situation; just kind of dangerous on multiple levels.

But I have never known any woman in that kind of hook-up situation who considered that a rape if they were both engaging in it. It's just a crazy situation that happened when they were both entirely too drunk. Maybe she feels good about it, maybe she doesn't, but either way, there is clearly no one "at fault" for the situation.

The law must draw certain lines which are, by necessity, overly simplistic, in order to decide who they will prosecute and who they will not. Where the law draws "drunknness" is something it simply must decide on to the best of its ability.

But on an individual level -- as an individual person considering sex with another individual person -- your own moral compass should be good enough to navigate these waters without anyone needing to slam the law down on you to get you to behave decently.

Consent is not complicated. The law is a bit complicated, because it has to factor in all possible situations that could be encountered by millions of individuals.

But personal consent is not complicated. Consent is a felt sense. Any decent human being knows whether they are getting consent by simply listening and watching.

Consent only becomes even mildly complicated if you are navigating the more experientially extreme waters of sexuality. And if that is the case, you should be talking -- a lot -- before you do anything. People can consent to extreme experiences, or even negative ones, as well. But those are things you do with someone you know inside and out, and someone who trusts you implicitly, and when you trust YOURSELF implicitly to adapt as the situation may change.
 
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Skeptic Bob

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I've known plenty of people who can get drunk enough to forget large blocks of time during their drinking.
The next day when they are sober, they can't remember all sorts of things they did.

This subject walks a very gray, and fuzzy line.

I would be inclined to say that yes, adults can indeed consent when they are drunk.
If they sober up and think "I didn't know what I was agreeing to last night." then the lesson is perhaps they shouldn't drink so much in the future.
(and please rush to store for "morning after pill" )

That is one of the other reasons it is complicated. Alcohol affects different people differently. I also know people who have lost time when they get very drunk and have no recollection of much of what they did. That doesn't happen to me. The worst that happens to me if I get really drunk is I have bad hand-eye coordination and I puke. I might be more talkative and less inhibited but I remember everything I do and being drunk doesn't make me do something I didn't really want to do already. I can say for me, personally, if I consent while drunk my consent is valid. But like I said, alcohol affects different people differently.
 

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But you know damn well it doesn't always work that way.

Especially with college aged kids, and even over 18 years old but under drinking aged persons.

Hell, even with lots of seasoned drinkers married or not.

Yes, I do know that. Besides, I think that idea could cause more harm than good. Get your consent at the beginning of the night then nothing else that happens matters? I doubt we'd say someone couldn't change their minds once drunk, plus it really could lead a situtation where someone really is incapacitated and the other person going ahead anyway, because, after all, they had consent.
 

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It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

Both can and have. Granted, there have been mistakes but, thankfully, no pictures to prove them.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

If they can't, then they can't consent to driving and shouldn't be charge with DUI.
 

Rogue Valley

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In my world, drunk doesn't mean sorta tipsy or a wee bit buzzed. Drunk means both physically and mentally impaired due to alcohol consumption.

To answer the question, I think valid-considered-consent is not obtainable if a person is drunk.
 

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If they can't, then they can't consent to driving and shouldn't be charge with DUI.

Good point, Harry. Is someone intoxicated responsible for their actions? I think so.
 

radcen

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Yes, I do know that. Besides, I think that idea could cause more harm than good. Get your consent at the beginning of the night then nothing else that happens matters? I doubt we'd say someone couldn't change their minds once drunk, plus it really could lead a situtation where someone really is incapacitated and the other person going ahead anyway, because, after all, they had consent.
That would work well on a first date, I bet. :lol:

Seriously, though, all she'd have to do is claim she changed her mind. I don't think even a signed consent form from two hours earlier would hold up in court.
 
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Is that what your username is referencing? You realize I'm asking about two people being engaged in the act right? :2razz:

I get your question, and when I can't hook up, when drinking, I've been known to take it out on parking meters.

 
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