Can drunk people consent to sex?

[joG]

It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

If you get drunk, you are responsible for doing so and for the consequences.

 

[Medusa]

They can consent to alcohol when sober and some of them may not fear what will happen when they are drunk

 

[chromium]

i want to wax philosophical and ask if we can consent to anything ever but...

yes they can, unless borderline passed out, but the real question is consenting to *unprotected* sex. For some reason, even when sober, humans seem to develop a childlike decision making ability when it comes to that

 

[chromium]

Alcohol causes impairment. The degree is variable between individuals and their circumstances. Since it cannot be predicted (and an impaired person's self-assessment is suspect) then any intake can be enough to render consent unlawful.

an individual who's been getting hammered for years knows damn well beforehand what will happen to their decision making capacities. They are therefore responsible for what follows, certainly far more than the individual who didn't make them get hammered

I mean are you telling me a girl who goes to frat parties and gets drunk and has sex every weekend can cry rape on the 20th time like she couldn't see this coming?

There's a reason date rape drugs are so common, which is that some mere drinking isn't enough loss of impairment

 

[chromium]

Nobody can give a legal consent while their thinking is impaired by drink or drugs.

really then i guess none can be accountable for their actions under such a state of mind either

the gigantic hole in your logic is that everyone knows ahead of time what drinking or drugs will do to their state of mind. If they choose to do so in spite of this, no one else should be responsible

 

[shelphs]

Being drunk doesn't exclude someone from responsibility. Becoming blackout drunk and having no memories of past decisions don't equate to having not made decisions and not being responsible for them.

[DISCLAIMER: as original question posed, issue specific to people who are functionally drunk, meaning their moving throughout the world; therefore, decisions are being made even if they may not be remembered the following day]

If this were the case; if consent and responsibility of actions lowered the drunker someone became, the spectrum of drunkenness in legal terms would have to include a point of zero culpability, e.g., total drunkenness.

Once someone reached total drunkenness, they wouldn't legally be responsible for their actions of agreeing to sex, driving drunk, beating their spouse, etc. Clearly this isn't a practical framework.

Naturally, people who cannot function, i.e., inability to make coherent speech, move or be consciously aware of their surroundings, are not making decisions: they aren't acting on anything.

It is a matter of doing something or having something done to you. The former involves decision-maker whereas the latter does not.

Drunk decision-making are still decisions even if they're not remembered the following day. If this is a problem, becoming blackout drunk, you should stop drinking


The above of course isn't speaking to people being drugged or of unwilling participants in drug taking, as these things lead to the passivity of unconsciousness and the inability to make decisions and/or act on them.

Sexual predation is a very present and ubiquitous problem, particularly in post-secondary institutions as many recent reports inform. There is a line where moral decency can be crossed when someone relatively sober maneuvers someone heavily intoxicated into sex, but if the person is conscious enough to carry a conversation, they would equally be conscious enough to attempt to drive, to beat a spouse, to even rape.

 

[chromium]

I've known plenty of people who can get drunk enough to forget large blocks of time during their drinking.
The next day when they are sober, they can't remember all sorts of things they did.

This subject walks a very gray, and fuzzy line.

I would be inclined to say that yes, adults can indeed consent when they are drunk.
If they sober up and think "I didn't know what I was agreeing to last night." then the lesson is perhaps they shouldn't drink so much in the future.
(and please rush to store for "morning after pill" )

forgetting the next day doesn't mean you weren't able to make decisions at the time, and i don't see how the person you're with should know you'll forget everything or wouldn't have done X had you been sober. Are they really supposed to know you better than you know yourself (as in, you should've known better than to get so drunk)?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Not a great watermark to judge by. When I'm drunk, logging on to DP and screaming obscenities followed by a leisurely 90mph drive on the 5 seems like a fine idea.

And if you strike and kill somebody on the freeway you'll be held fully accountable for manslaughter

 

[Cardinal]

And if you strike and kill somebody on the freeway you'll be held fully accountable for manslaughter

So I've been told, but that wasn't my point. My point is that using personal judgment when drunk or toward someone who's drunk is always going to be a risky endeavor because the quality of that judgment has been compromised.

 

[Dragonfly]

forgetting the next day doesn't mean you weren't able to make decisions at the time, and i don't see how the person you're with should know you'll forget everything or wouldn't have done X had you been sober. Are they really supposed to know you better than you know yourself (as in, you should've known better than to get so drunk)?

Some people can make perfectly sound judgments when drunk. Some can't.

Ever heard the old sayin':

"Hey watch this!!! Here, hold my beer!"

 

[Quag]

Some people can make perfectly sound judgments when drunk. Some can't.

Ever heard the old sayin':

"Hey watch this!!! Here, hold my beer!"

Nope but I have heard it the other way around,
"Here hold my beer and watch this"

 

[Cardinal]

Some people can make perfectly sound judgments when drunk. Some can't.

Ever heard the old sayin':

"Hey watch this!!! Here, hold my beer!"

In my experience, one doesn't make sound judgments while intoxicated, one just manages to avoid making particularly bad ones. Don't get me wrong, I drink and I love me my IPA, but there's a very good reason that I don't write business emails after I've clocked out for the day. In fact, I don't even post here or on Facebook.

 

[blackjack50]

If you choose to get drunk, you choose the consequences of your drunken decisions, as you understand your decisions will be impaired. Not to build a straw-man, but you don't get off the hook for choosing to drink and drive because somebody REALLY needed a ride, and you were too drunk to decide appropriately.

You know that is a very good point. Granted if you are passed out...that is different. So the analogy doesn't quite fit.

 

[maquiscat]

Some people can make perfectly sound judgments when drunk. Some can't.

Ever heard the old sayin':

"Hey watch this!!! Here, hold my beer!"

Drunkeness is not required for that level of stupidity. Ref: Fail Army.

 

[Dragonfly]

Drunkeness is not required for that level of stupidity. Ref: Fail Army.

Required? Of course not.

But for many people it sure doesn't help the situation.

 

[fredmertzz]

You know that is a very good point. Granted if you are passed out...that is different. So the analogy doesn't quite fit.

True point. But when passed out, I wouldn't consider rape a 'drunken decision'.