Can drunk people consent to sex?

[haymarket]

If people intentionally and willingly drink to the point of intoxication - and they are of age - they know that diminished capacity is a probably result and that they may may decisions impacted by that diminished capacity. So I would say that they cannot use their intoxication to excuse what happens to them as a result of it.

 

[radcen]

If people intentionally and willingly drink to the point of intoxication - and they are of age - they know that diminished capacity is a probably result and that they may may decisions impacted by that diminished capacity. So I would say that they cannot use their intoxication to excuse what happens to them as a result of it.

Agreed, but what do you mean by "of age"?

21, legal drinking age?

18, age of responsibility?

16-(ish, varies depending on locale), age of consent?

I would say 18, age of responsibility.

 

[haymarket]

Agreed, but what do you mean by "of age"?

21, legal drinking age?

18, age of responsibility?

16-(ish, varies depending on locale), age of consent?

I would say 18, age of responsibility.

Good question. I can see your point since the age of drinking and the age of sexual consent are different.

Honest answer: if we are talking about consent to having sex and the person if of age to do so and they break the law and willingly consume liquor to get drunk - I would suggest they have given consent to having sex despite breaking the law on drinking.

 

[Cardinal]

It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

Drunk? Yes. Stupid-drunk? No. And using your own judgment in this matter is a choice you make at your own peril.

 

[cpwill]

Yes. You are responsible for your decisions while intoxicated. This, for example, is why we prosecute DUI's.

 

[TheGoverness]

Yes. You are 100% responsible for your actions when drunk. It's the reason why we jail drunk drivers.

 

[Eric7216]

Can we all agree that having regrets the next day is a completely separate thing from the question of whether or not is was rape?

Clearly we can not. But we should.
There have been too many cases in which a person seems to be in a mutually acceptable relationship, including sex, and then some time afterwards decides that, no, that was coerced. The mattress girl is just one such case.

 

[Dragonfly]

Look at this another way.

You are 100% heterosexual.

You get drunk one night. Seriously drunk.

You wake up in bed with someone of the same gender and discover that during your drunken stupor, you had "the gay sex".

Would you claim that you were raped?

Or since you were "drunk" was it consensual?

Try to be honest in your answer.

 

[haymarket]

Look at this another way.

You are 100% heterosexual.

You get drunk one night. Seriously drunk.

You wake up in bed with someone of the same gender and discover that during your drunken stupor, you had "the gay sex".

Would you claim that you were raped?

Or since you were "drunk" was it consensual?

Try to be honest in your answer.

Unless there is some evidence of possible criminal activity like you were drugged and knocked out and then forcibly taken to a different location and then chained to a bed - I would think its your own damn fault.

 

[matchlight]

It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

The answer depends on how intoxicated a person must be to be "drunk." Lots of people have had some alcohol before having sex, but that does not necessarily mean the sex is not consensual.

 

[maquiscat]

It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

Yes drunk people can consent. Whether it is legally recognized or not is another matter. The underage drinking can consent as well, but the same point remains. The true question, which we tend to gloss over and never address, is whether these individuals can give informed consent, meaning do they, at the time of their consent, have a reasonable ability to understand what they are consenting to and the consequences thereof?

 

[Crovax]

Clearly we can not. But we should.
There have been too many cases in which a person seems to be in a mutually acceptable relationship, including sex, and then some time afterwards decides that, no, that was coerced. The mattress girl is just one such case.

The mattress girl is a psycho, she made a porn video depicting her own rape and claimed those who viewed it and didnt agree with her were guilty of raping her too

Oops, I Guess I Just Raped Emma Sulkowicz

 

[VanceMack]

This is a major problem in the military right now. The way things sit today, if there is a drop of alcohol involved and the 'victim' claims she (or he) didnt really mean to consent, it is investigated as and most likely will be found to be a sexual assault incident. It doesnt have to be 'drunk' or legally intoxicated. A single drink can be defined as impaired. It doesnt matter if the two parties met at a club, were both drinking, willingly went back to a private location, and there was no request for the act to stop. If the 'victim' 3 days later reports that she was intoxicated and incapable of consent, there will be a case opened. (keep in mind that in the military, sexual assault is defined as unwanted contact to the breast, buttocks, loins, or groin-therefore...grabbing someones butt = sexual assault. Touching someones breast = sexual assault). People still arent following the instruction, but it is being taught. If you are planning on a little physical intimacy on a date...you better have consent and there better not be any alcohol involved at all. Legally...there are some differences and I would never purport to be an expert, but legally it could come down to level of impairment of both parties as to the level of responsibility. If both parties were impaired substantially, the activity could still be seen as illegal but it may be difficult to criminally charge. If the person accused is not intoxicated and the victim is, the accused is most likely done for.

 

[cpwill]

Look at this another way.

You are 100% heterosexual.

You get drunk one night. Seriously drunk.

You wake up in bed with someone of the same gender and discover that during your drunken stupor, you had "the gay sex".

Would you claim that you were raped?

Or since you were "drunk" was it consensual?

Try to be honest in your answer.

If I was passed out, drugged, or unable to move? I was raped.

If I made a series of really dumb decisions, went along, didn't say no, participated, etc? Then I made a decision. That I chose to wreck my ability to make good decisions isn't the other dude's fault, it's mine, and as an adult, I'm expected to take responsibility for my actions.

 

[Quag]

Simple rule I always followed, I never had sex with women that were visibly drunker than I was.

 

[Northern Light]

Legally speaking, mind altered people can't consent to sex, whether only one person is or both people are. Social rules are different, drunk people have sex all the time. If someone accuses you of rape in court, you are fall more likely to get convicted if the victim was drunk.

Bearing in mind that less than 8% of rape accusations are false, most drunk rape victims are not lying. A lot of the horrible rape stories I've heard and read involve victims who are black-out drunk and instead of being taken care of, they get raped. The problem stems from the culture of getting women drunk so that they "loosen up", which increases the sense of entitlement to sex. Can't count the number of guys I've met who think the key to a fun night is to keep buying a woman drinks. They'd never outright rape a woman but the strategy of lowering a woman's inhibitions with substances is pretty common, and slimy if you ask me.

 

[Gathomas88]

It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we? I should clarify by drunk, I don't mean unconscious or passed out or drugged so the person is unaware of what's happening. Obviously, unconscious people cannot consent. I'm talking about the common scenario of a man and woman, getting drunk and screwing (like the Jimmy Buffet song).

attaching poll

That depends on how "drunk" we're talking here.

As long as she's still lucid and conscious, I'd say that it's probably fine.

 

[Cardinal]

That depends on how "drunk" we're talking here.

As long as she's still lucid and conscious, I'd say that it's probably fine.

Not a great watermark to judge by. When I'm drunk, logging on to DP and screaming obscenities followed by a leisurely 90mph drive on the 5 seems like a fine idea.

 

[soot]

They'd never outright rape a woman but the strategy of lowering a woman's inhibitions with substances is pretty common, and slimy if you ask me.

Given that only something like 10% of the population are alcoholics (are psychologically/physiologically compelled to drink whether they want to or not) it would stand to reason that the large majority of women in the situations you describe are there willingly, accepting the drinks and pounding them down of their own free will.

I know that in a legal sense a woman accepting drinks from a guy all night long does not equate to a obligation/contract to have sex.

But most women know EXACTLY what they're doing, sitting there using the implied possibility of sex to encourage a man to continue spending money on her.

Equally slimy if you ask me.

If you're going to go out in to the world and be a slimy person, and you attract slimy people as a consequence, and it results in slimy things happening, don't expect me to feel sorry for you, or to ever care overmuch what happens to you.

 

[HonestJoe]

It happens all the time, but sometimes we see an allegation of rape because the woman was too drunk to give valid consent, same way as it's viewed that children cannot consent. I'd assume we'd be consistent and say that drunk men cannot consent either, therefore, what we'd have is a mutual rape situation, wouldn't we?

Legally speaking there is (though in some places rape requires penetration so in the case of “normal” intercourse, a woman could only be convicted of some other form of sexual assault). In practical terms, men are more often (though not exclusively) the more proactive, perusing and aggressive partner, the alleged victim often was significantly more intoxicated in such cases and for physical reasons we hopefully don’t have to go in to, it’d generally be easier for a man to have sex with a very drunk woman than it is for a woman to have sex with a very drunk man.

There will be cases that are clear-cut rape regardless and there will be cases where alcohol is being used as an excuse for morning-after regret but there will be a whole load of situations where the specifics are unclear (even to those involved). There is clearly a point where alcohol (or other intoxicants) render someone incapable of making rational decisions, though that line will vary greatly by individual and circumstance and would be difficult to measure even at the time. Lots of legal situations are very difficult to assess after the fact though, but that’s not a reason to simply dismiss them – we can’t turn this in to a situation where rape charges can never be brought if both people had been drinking. Accusations and defences just have to be taken case-by-case on their merits and conclusions reached as best they can be.

Meanwhile, maybe a little more effort could be put in to discouraging people from getting so drunk they’re incapable of making rational decisions and from jumping in to bed with random strangers when they do. That would make the actual cases of rape easier to distinguish.

 

[CanadaJohn]

As a person who doesn't drink to excess and who basically doesn't drink at this point in my life, I'm perhaps not a good one to opine on the subject. But I do remember in my younger days that I was no match for too much booze and most young people are too immature to pace themselves and cut themselves off before they pass the point where they're cognizant of every choice they make.

For that simple reason, I'd say no, a drunk person cannot consent to anything remotely serious, sex being one of those things. Besides, how desperate do you have to be that sex with a drunk person is a viable option?

 

[radcen]

As a person who doesn't drink to excess and who basically doesn't drink at this point in my life, I'm perhaps not a good one to opine on the subject. But I do remember in my younger days that I was no match for too much booze and most young people are too immature to pace themselves and cut themselves off before they pass the point where they're cognizant of every choice they make.

For that simple reason, I'd say no, a drunk person cannot consent to anything remotely serious, sex being one of those things. Besides, how desperate do you have to be that sex with a drunk person is a viable option?

Would you include signing a contract, or confessing to a crime, in this?

You did say sex was "one of those things", suggesting there are others.

 

[radcen]

Money, by Pink Floyd
(Waters)

Money, get away.
Get a good job with good pay and you're okay.
Money, it's a gas.
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team.

Money, get back.
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack.
Money, it's a hit.
Don't give me that do goody good bull****.
I'm in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet.

Money, it's a crime.
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie.
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today.
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away.

"HuHuh! I was in the right!"
"Yes, absolutely in the right!"
"I certainly was in the right!"
"You was definitely in the right. That geezer was cruising for a
bruising!"
"Yeah!"
"Why does anyone do anything?"
"I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!"
"I was just telling him, he couldn't get into number 2. He was asking
why he wasn't coming up on freely, after I was yelling and
screaming and telling him why he wasn't coming up on freely.
It came as a heavy blow, but we sorted the matter out"

 

[CanadaJohn]

Would you include signing a contract, or confessing to a crime, in this?

You did say sex was "one of those things", suggesting there are others.

Yes, I would. Being incapacitated, mentally or physically, precludes you from knowingly and willingly entering into such actions.

 

[ksu_aviator]

If you said no, you set the precedent that a person can't be held responsible for drunk driving.