Bush Approval Plummets to 35%

[DeeJayH]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

I decided to check my email before I went out, and you are the dumbest person alive!

the post i made, would suggest that :3oops:

Keep bashing God and people who have faith in him

although i would appreciate you showing me where i said that

So what real ideas and real solutions do you believe the republicans possess that the "***** liberals" can't figure out??

if the republicans were not putting forward things, what would the dems/libs be obstructing and criticizing
the dem/libs are not criticizing inaction by bush and the rep/cons
rather they are attacking, criticizing, and obstructing what the rep/cons are trying to do

 

[DeeJayH]

How would we know the war is over?

the War in Iraq, or the War on terror in general? two very different q's

Iraq will be won in increments
as Iraq rises up we stand down. there will not be a V-Day like wars of the past

the war on terror will last decades on the battlefront, in some cases, but hopefully mostly in the political
If AlQaida in Iraq continues to make mistakes, like attacking Jordan, maybe the arab countries will get more involved in the crackdown on extremists

Europe is burning, Jordan is a little bit pissed, and hopefully democracy will take root and spread from Iraq.
notice the use of Hopefully. I in now way believe anything is certain---other than death, and that you look really stupid if you try to debate after coming home from happy-hour

 

[GeorgeDumbyaBush]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

the post i made, would suggest that :3oops:


although i would appreciate you showing me where i said that


if the republicans were not putting forward things, what would the dems/libs be obstructing and criticizing
the dem/libs are not criticizing inaction by bush and the rep/cons
rather they are attacking, criticizing, and obstructing what the rep/cons are trying to do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelzie
Judging from the type of people who claim they are going to be "saved," I'd rather not be. Eternity's too long to spend with a bunch of pompous pricks with sticks up their asses.


everybody knows the real party in the afterlife will be in Hell
i will keep a seat warm for you
__________________
J - E - T - S
JETS
JETS
JETS

if god dont want me because of the life i led
than i look forward to hell
all my friends will be there anyways
__________________
J - E - T - S
JETS
JETS
JETS

 

[26 X World Champs]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

hmmmm, maybe a little bit :3oops: *hangs head in shame, and goes to time-out*

There but for the grace of God go I!

if we are no closer to winning than we were two years ago what do you call:
2 successful elections
all the gains on the political front
the Iraqi military, which is lacking, but it is forming. same with the police force
they still need major teaching and experience, but Iraqis are streaming in to answer the call, knowing full well they will be targeted by the terrorists for death

I agree we've made some small progress, but to think we are near the end of this war I believe is to be overly, overly optimistic. We've all read how slow the progress has been in training the Iraqis despite 2.5 years of training.

What's weird is it doesn't take 2.5 years to train American soldiers, so why is it taking so long with the Iraqis? I do think there is an underlying lack of true commitment of their soldiers to the cause, the willingness, under fire, to lay it all on the line. I find that to be a critical flaw that will extend this war and causes thousands of American lives.

I speak for myself, but I also think I speak for many Democrats when I write that my desire to end this war is not political! I want this to end because I do not believe that we belong in Iraq, that Iraq was ever a threat, and that due to our involvement in Iraq we've created Al Quaeda cells in countries that never had them before, that we've aided their recruiting, that we've enboldened them to more diabolical attacks against us.

I also believe that we need to understand that Al Quaeda is a terrorist organization and by definition that means they are most successful when they get inside our heads, scare the $hit out of us, alter our way of life through fear. This is the war we are losing today, we are more afraid of terrorism in 2005 then we were in 2004, and this is due to the success of the insurgency in Iraq.

Had we never gone to Iraq and instead invested hundreds of billions of dollars into fighting Al Quaeda I definitely believe we would be much safer than we are today, and that is why I really, realy despise Bush and his cabal. They've made all of us less safe and more afraid then ever!

 

[scottyz]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

DeeJay,

Are you forgetting that Biden, Kerry and Hillary Clinton have called for MORE troops in Iraq to get the job done right? This is also a position that is being called for by John McCain.

The problem is, getting enough troops in Iraq to secure the whole country is political suicide.

So have several ex-generals from the start of this war. The strategy of securing a city and leaving doesn't work, it just means you have to come back a month later and resecure it. That sort of game could go on forever. Bush isn't serious about winning this but he also wont pull out which means we're all basically screwed.

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelzie
Judging from the type of people who claim they are going to be "saved," I'd rather not be. Eternity's too long to spend with a bunch of pompous pricks with sticks up their asses.


everybody knows the real party in the afterlife will be in Hell
i will keep a seat warm for you

that ^ is a quote from me
but i was actually wondering where i did the following: "Keep bashing God and people who have faith in him"

i do not believe you will find that
I was raised Roman Catholic
am currently Agnostic
I do think there is a good chance there is something above, but i doubt any of the religions actually got it right
however that does not mean i want a tiny Cross taken off a county seal
or that i want Christmas off the school calendar

and now back to your regularly scheduled programming

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

There but for the grace of God go I!

What's weird is it doesn't take 2.5 years to train American soldiers, so why is it taking so long with the Iraqis? I do think there is an underlying lack of true commitment of their soldiers to the cause, the willingness, under fire, to lay it all on the line. I find that to be a critical flaw that will extend this war and causes thousands of American lives.

no it does not take 2.5 years to train a basic military soldier. But that is when there is an established military already in place. Their military happened to vanish into the civilian population to form the insurgency or go back to 'normal life' at home

I also believe that we need to understand that Al Quaeda is a terrorist organization and by definition that means they are most successful when they get inside our heads, scare the $hit out of us, alter our way of life through fear. This is the war we are losing today, we are more afraid of terrorism in 2005 then we were in 2004, and this is due to the success of the insurgency in Iraq.

I am from Long Island NY. I know dozens of people who work in the city. I also know alot of people who travel on planes regularly as a part of their job. I have sense no fear out of any of them. I know many people through my sales job, and not one has expressed any concern regarding a terrorist attack. I know no one who lives in fear. Everybody i know is going about their lives as best they can. So i find that statement false, or exagerated. But the Dems sure seem to be getting good mileage out of it.

Had we never gone to Iraq and instead invested hundreds of billions of dollars into fighting Al Quaeda I definitely believe we would be much safer than we are today, and that is why I really, realy despise Bush and his cabal. They've made all of us less safe and more afraid then ever!

That certainly would have been anoth way to go, but Bush's grand plan of spreading democracy could work as well. If the standard of living is raised, and the oppressive regimes toppled, than there will not be as much Cause to create terrorist who blame the west for all their problems I do not know a single person relishing in the idea that this will turn into a long drawn out affair, but just about everyone does beleive if we bail before Iraq can stand on its own, we will be in even more danger

 

[26 X World Champs]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

That certainly would have been anoth way to go, but Bush's grand plan of spreading democracy could work as well. If the standard of living is raised, and the oppressive regimes toppled, than there will not be as much Cause to create terrorist who blame the west for all their problems I do not know a single person relishing in the idea that this will turn into a long drawn out affair, but just about everyone does beleive if we bail before Iraq can stand on its own, we will be in even more danger

When I wrote about fear I was thinking about NYC AND the rest of the Western World.

Considering we just had a very well publicized threat to the NYC subways, not sure how you can rationalize your statement?

How about asking people in London how they feel? Or in Amman? Or in Spain? Where will they strike next? The pattern is there, American allies, here or overseas.

As far as air travel goes, that is a place that is relatively easy to secure. Confined space, i.e. airport vs. subways, or trains, or hotels or who knows where next?

We drive our son to school as much as possible so that he does not have to take the subway, and I know speaking to my co-workers and my friends and my son's friends and their families there is a most definite fear of when, not if we will be attacked next here in Manhattan. Honestly, ask around next time you're in the City.

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

When I wrote about fear I was thinking about NYC AND the rest of the Western World.

Considering we just had a very well publicized threat to the NYC subways, not sure how you can rationalize your statement?

How about asking people in London how they feel? Or in Amman? Or in Spain? Where will they strike next? The pattern is there, American allies, here or overseas.

As far as air travel goes, that is a place that is relatively easy to secure. Confined space, i.e. airport vs. subways, or trains, or hotels or who knows where next?

We drive our son to school as much as possible so that he does not have to take the subway, and I know speaking to my co-workers and my friends and my son's friends and their families there is a most definite fear of when, not if we will be attacked next here in Manhattan. Honestly, ask around next time you're in the City.

which is why i said I know people who work in the City
I worked on Wall St for a few years, have alot of friends and contacts there in the city
8 less due to 9/11
none of them have expressed fear
actually they have expressed contempt and anger at the inconvenience

 

[26 X World Champs]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

which is why i said I know people who work in the City
I worked on Wall St for a few years, have alot of friends and contacts there in the city
8 less due to 9/11
none of them have expressed fear
actually they have expressed contempt and anger at the inconvenience

Ironically I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who used to work at Cantor Fitzgerald and was out of town on 9-11. He lost hundreds of co-workers/friends that horrible day. He also feels truly blessed to have not been there then.

I mentioned to him what you wrote and he too has contempt for Al Quaeda, as do I. But he also knows the intense pain that was suffered and he dreads thinking it might/will happen again.

I've not seen poll numbers recently that ask "Do you feel safer today than you did before the Iraq War?" so I cannnot honestly say if you or I are more in tune with the general feeling of Americans.

BTW - I'm sure yu read about the bust in Australia last week? I have another good friend who lives in Sydney and has a young family. He told me that the mood was shock more than fear, meaning they were really surprised that there was a plot by Al Quaeda in Australia.

I'm not surprised though as it seems obvious that the countries that are our closest supporters are now all targets for Al Quaeda (but NOT Iraqis)! Do you know of Iraqis outside of Iraq that are trying to hurt us?

 

[JOHNYJ]

The Republican party owns the Iraq war ,which means its President Bushs war. The High price of home heating fuel is also President Bushs and the Republicans. Cold people get mad.
President Bush liked giving Oil companies big tax benefits while they were making big profits,that is until now.
Hes lucky the 06 elections are'nt in January.

 

[scottyz]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

Ironically I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who used to work at Cantor Fitzgerald and was out of town on 9-11. He lost hundreds of co-workers/friends that horrible day. He also feels truly blessed to have not been there then.

I mentioned to him what you wrote and he too has contempt for Al Quaeda, as do I. But he also knows the intense pain that was suffered and he dreads thinking it might/will happen again.

I've not seen poll numbers recently that ask "Do you feel safer today than you did before the Iraq War?" so I cannnot honestly say if you or I are more in tune with the general feeling of Americans.

You don't need poll numbers. New York overwhelmingly voted against Bush in the '04 election.

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

You don't need poll numbers. New York overwhelmingly voted against Bush in the '04 election.

Yeah but NYC elected a Republican Governor and Mayor for the last 12 years........

 

[DeeJayH]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

You don't need poll numbers. New York overwhelmingly voted against Bush in the '04 election.

the state of NY goes Blue almost always in recent times due to, in most part, because the City of NY which is liberal like just about every other major metropolis in the country

 

[MrOrange99]

The Republican party owns the Iraq war ,which means its President Bushs war. The High price of home heating fuel is also President Bushs and the Republicans. Cold people get mad.
President Bush liked giving Oil companies big tax benefits while they were making big profits,that is until now.
Hes lucky the 06 elections are'nt in January.

well said. Bush is responsable for this mess and unfortunatly there is still 3 more years to go.... :shock:

 

[scottyz]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

Yeah but NYC elected a Republican Governor and Mayor for the last 12 years........

The Gov. and Mayor don't control any international intellligence agencies, a military or fight international terrorism... whuda thunk it? If New Yorkers thought bush could keep them safe they would have voted for him, but they didn't. Case closed.

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

The Gov. and Mayor don't control any international intellligence agencies, a military or fight international terrorism... whuda thunk it? If New Yorkers thought bush could keep them safe they would have voted for him, but they didn't. Case closed.

Well all I know is since Bush was elected president Republicans have gained seats in the house and the senate and most governorships which is unheard of..

I get a big kick out of the democrats.....They win 2 governorships in places where there were already dem governorships and they hail it as a huge victory..........How desperate is that? They did not win squat...They just kept the status quo............

 

[RightinNYC]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

The Gov. and Mayor don't control any international intellligence agencies, a military or fight international terrorism... whuda thunk it? If New Yorkers thought bush could keep them safe they would have voted for him, but they didn't. Case closed.

Surprise, surprise, most people aren't single issue voters. Just because NYC didnt vote for Bush does not mean that it was because they didn't think he'd keep them safe.

 

[scottyz]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

Surprise, surprise, most people aren't single issue voters. Just because NYC didnt vote for Bush does not mean that it was because they didn't think he'd keep them safe.

Bush ran on the platform that he was the only guy who could keep us safe from terrorism...

 

[RightinNYC]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

Bush ran on the platform that he was the only guy who could keep us safe from terrorism...

You really don't understand causation, do you?

If NYC historically voted republican, and suddenly, with everything else remaining the same, voted for Kerry, then you could make the argument that there were factors of Bush in play.

But when Bush lost in a city where republicans make up 15% of the registered voters...that's not a reflection on the city's belief that Bush could keep them safe so much as it is the prevailing attitude.

Two lil tidbits of info: When asked who they thought would keep them safer from terrorism, many more people said Bush than Kerry.

Also, when asked what was the single most important issue in the election, terrorism was the choice of 13% of the population. Doesn't seem like the only salient issue to me...

 

[SixStringHero]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

When I wrote about fear I was thinking about NYC AND the rest of the Western World.

Considering we just had a very well publicized threat to the NYC subways, not sure how you can rationalize your statement?

How about asking people in London how they feel? Or in Amman? Or in Spain? Where will they strike next? The pattern is there, American allies, here or overseas.

As far as air travel goes, that is a place that is relatively easy to secure. Confined space, i.e. airport vs. subways, or trains, or hotels or who knows where next?

We drive our son to school as much as possible so that he does not have to take the subway, and I know speaking to my co-workers and my friends and my son's friends and their families there is a most definite fear of when, not if we will be attacked next here in Manhattan. Honestly, ask around next time you're in the City.

Please don't tell me you are making the case that terrorist attacks occurring around the globe and the prevalence of them, are a direct result of the US occupation in Iraq.

If anything, you are making a case that Islamic fanaticism is becoming a more wide spread problem and a detriment to the free world's way of life.

The world can't sit around while 300 school children are killed in Beslan. Or how about the Madrid and Bali Bombing? And most recently, the London bombings?

This has been an ever increasing problem that no party wanted to deal with until now, and it seems that more and more people are tying to make the claim that this wouldn't be occurring if it were not for American occupation in Iraq.

All I go back on is this. What did America do to deserve 9/11 in the first place?

 

[26 X World Champs]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

Please don't tell me you are making the case that terrorist attacks occurring around the globe and the prevalence of them, are a direct result of the US occupation in Iraq.

How can you not think that?

1. Spain - Fighting in Iraq - Attacked - Pulls out of Iraq

2. England - Fighting in Iraq.

3. Jordan - America's closest Arab ally.

4. Australia - Plot stopped last week - fighting in Iraq.

What's the common thread here? Support of the USA and the Iraq War. You haven't seen anything in Germany, France or other Western countries that are US allies but are not supporting the Iraq war.

 

[dthmstr254]

well said. Bush is responsable for this mess and unfortunatly there is still 3 more years to go.... :shock:

you must not have read the Constitution. didn't you know that Bush had to have the support of the congress to go to war, and the most famous supporters of the war at that time were democrats. Bush is not fully responsible for this mess, the entire congress is responsible, not just the head of the country. what good is the head without the body's support???

 

[RightinNYC]

Re: Bush Drops Another Point

How can you not think that?

1. Spain - Fighting in Iraq - Attacked - Pulls out of Iraq

2. England - Fighting in Iraq.

3. Jordan - America's closest Arab ally.

4. Australia - Plot stopped last week - fighting in Iraq.

What's the common thread here? Support of the USA and the Iraq War. You haven't seen anything in Germany, France or other Western countries that are US allies but are not supporting the Iraq war.

Uh....Russia?

Even aside from that, this surprises you? Why would terrorists attack countries that support them? They're already starting to feel the heat from attacking other Muslims, as seen by the recent protests in Jordan.

Is your argument that by supporting the US in the Iraq war, these countries are getting what they deserve? Or are you using it as an argument for why we and other countries shouldn't push, because we "might get attacked?"

Either one of those is sad.

 

[Binary_Digit]

you must not have read the Constitution. didn't you know that Bush had to have the support of the congress to go to war, and the most famous supporters of the war at that time were democrats. Bush is not fully responsible for this mess, the entire congress is responsible, not just the head of the country. what good is the head without the body's support???

I believe the prevailing assertion is that Bush decieved Congress by witholding evidence that weakened his rationale for war. We'll have to wait and see whether or not there's some truth in that. Lots of people have already made up their minds though.