Biggest failure in US history?

[Wiggen]

I was speaking in historical context. From the people living during those generations, it was not a foregone conclusion, and at times, was far from discussion.

I think there was always a fairly active abolitionist movement, and Congress was certainly aware of the monster the founders had created.

 

[Wiggen]

Your wrong...nam couldve been won in days...it wasnt because we werent allowed to....nixon ended it in days...he did what we should have done years earlier...bombed hanoi into submission, send in ground troops to clean up....done won. Instead we played political games as americans died

Vietnam could not have been won, because we were fighting people who were ready and willing to sacrifice their lives for their cause. We were not. I find it interesting that the only people who didn't respect the fighting ability of the VC and the North Vietnamese regulars were those who never actually had to fight them. They were a very tough, very determined foe fighting with very good weapons for their type of warfare and fighting in an environment that favored them.

Could we have invaded North Vietnam? Sure. Then what? You think they just give up?

 

[PeteEU]

Could we have invaded North Vietnam? Sure. Then what? You think they just give up?

And then you would have started WW2.. China would not stand back.

But the war it self was winable if certain things were done differently. Kennedy had the right idea when he sent the first advisor's over.. arm the local population against the Viet Cong. But that strategy was changed and Westmoreland or whatever his name was, started to fight a conventional war which was doomed to fail. Tribes that were against the Viet Cong before turned on the US for abandoning them and bombing them and then the cause was lost.

And lets not forget, the whole war with North Vietnam was started on a lie by the US..

 

[Van Basten]

Our biggest failure was: Denying Carter a second term. We all lost something....

Lost what?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Lost what?

And do we miss it?

 

[Fiddytree]

I think there was always a fairly active abolitionist movement, and Congress was certainly aware of the monster the founders had created.

Over time it became more acute, but it is a flaw to assume how inevitable it all was. Just became there was dissent, and a couple of occasions where the problem seemed heightened to a number of people, does not mean it was systemically inevitable. This is one of the problems with the "Long View" of History. It's disproportionately in favor of our view of the past rather than the view of others.

 

[Ben K.]

Suez. It's always a bad idea to kill off empires that aren't serious threats to yourself. It made the Middle East America's problem as opposed to forcing the Brits and French to handle it and take the role of Great Satan.

Trying to outspend the USSR. Sometimes bad ideas will reveal themselves to be bad ideas. Maybe sped things along, but it seems the ideology would fail anyway.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Vietnam could not have been won, because we were fighting people who were ready and willing to sacrifice their lives for their cause. We were not. I find it interesting that the only people who didn't respect the fighting ability of the VC and the North Vietnamese regulars were those who never actually had to fight them. They were a very tough, very determined foe fighting with very good weapons for their type of warfare and fighting in an environment that favored them.

Could we have invaded North Vietnam? Sure. Then what? You think they just give up?

Sorry, but that is not how we "lost" Vietnam. No one "won", btw.

We kicked the crap out of the VC, and the NVA regulars. And we could have blown any and all of them to kingdom come had we wanted to, at any time. We destroyed the VC with their TET.

We could "not succeed" not because of the VC, or NVA. We could not succeed because that average South Vietnamese, whose "freedom" we were fighting for, didn't give a rat's ass about our version of freedom. Pretty much the same as Afghanistan.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

you think the bay of pigs screw up was more significant than the dicknbush screw up
not even close
all the bay of pigs did was fail to overthrow castro and give our nation a temporary black eye for incompetence
that pales in significance to the multitude of wrongful actions committed by the shrub's regime

What a joke. We lost what .... 58,000 men with Johnson's escalation of Vietnam. And over a million Vietnamese. Anything "shrub" did with Iraq etc. pales by comparison. And its not ****ing close.

 

[Dittohead not!]

The greatest failure? Hmm.. maybe rap.

or maybe hip hop.

I really don't see much difference.

 

[Andalublue]

Selling its democracy to corporate capital for 30 pieces of silver.

 

[Van Basten]

The greatest failure? Hmm.. maybe rap.

or maybe hip hop.

I really don't see much difference.

Really now?

 

[Dittohead not!]

Really now?

Really. It all sounds like noise to me.

But, that's just me. Some people obviously like it well enough to want to share it with the whole town.

 

[StillBallin75]

Really. It all sounds like noise to me.

But, that's just me. Some people obviously like it well enough to want to share it with the whole town.

And the whole town liked it well enough for it to be popular enough that folks to have strong feelings about. Rap and hip-hop on the whole are not a failure, but the last few years it has been.

 

[lpast]

and yet we still LOST

I guess you didnt read my post...yes we lost...but it wasnt the military that lost...

 

[Van Basten]

Really. It all sounds like noise to me.

But, that's just me. Some people obviously like it well enough to want to share it with the whole town.

Alot of people love it. To each its' own, as they say. I can't see how your dislike for a music genre warrants being mentioned on this thread. You must really hate Hip Hop.

Hip Hop is good stuff, just depends on what you're listening to. Just like with Rock.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Alot of people love it. To each its' own, as they say. I can't see how your dislike for a music genre warrants being mentioned on this thread. You must really hate Hip Hop.

Hip Hop is good stuff, just depends on what you're listening to. Just like with Rock.

Some of the rock is pretty good, particularly the classics of the '50s. I still wouldn't play it loud enough to share it with the whole town, though. Other people just might not appreciate it.

 

[Van Basten]

Some of the rock is pretty good, particularly the classics of the '50s. I still wouldn't play it loud enough to share it with the whole town, though. Other people just might not appreciate it.

I don't care for any rock that far back myself. I've heard plenty of people blast rock music, plenty, I assure you. But yea, I'm not a fan of people blasting music either.

 

[Dittohead not!]

How about our continued decades long failure to become energy independent? Surely, if Brazil can do it, we can to.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

How about our continued decades long failure to become energy independent? Surely, if Brazil can do it, we can to.

LOL ... Brazil has got no stinking Democrat Party.

 

[Dittohead not!]

LOL ... Brazil has got no stinking Democrat Party.

they got no stinking Republican Party either. Maybe that's the solution.

 

[StillBallin75]

LOL ... Brazil has got no stinking Democrat Party.

You do realize that government intervention played a hugely significant role in Brazil's path to energy independence, right? They're doing a hell of a lot more than just drilling their way to prosperity.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

You do realize that government intervention played a hugely significant role in Brazil's path to energy independence, right? They're doing a hell of a lot more than just drilling their way to prosperity.

So is this an argument for America to "stay the course " ? I don't think so, and therefore see absolutely no merit in your post.

The fact is that Brazil has succeeded with its resources, where we keep stepping on our dick.

Do you agree ? Explain if you do not. And if you do, then how are we screwing up where Brazil is not ?

Here. "Bebê broca broca". Its Portuguese.

Pssst ... Brazil isn't throwing money down solar-panel rabbit holes and building wind farms.

 

[justabubba]

justabubba: you think the bay of pigs screw up was more significant than the dicknbush screw up
not even close
all the bay of pigs did was fail to overthrow castro and give our nation a temporary black eye for incompetence
that pales in significance to the multitude of wrongful actions committed by the shrub's regime

What a joke. We lost what .... 58,000 men with Johnson's escalation of Vietnam. And over a million Vietnamese. Anything "shrub" did with Iraq etc. pales by comparison. And its not ****ing close.

well, i am laughing
at your replying to my bay of pigs comment
and then discussing the vietnam war failure

here's a hint: the bay of pigs had NOTHING to do with vietnam
maybe you want to distinguish that from the gulf of tonkin

but again, the laugh at your 'joke' is appreciated

 

[upsideguy]

Allowing corruption (Money) to become the largest influence in politics. Unfortunately, this failure is still unfolding, and I see it as the "Biggest Failure" based on the possibility it may very well lead to our republic collapsing.

The SCOTUS decision on Citizens United which affirmed what had been happening in the US for quite sometime: its not "one man, one vote" but rather "one dollar, one vote".