Bellevue Kicks Gay Coach Out of League

[Tucker Case]

I think you are forcing your morality on this situation, and it's rather hate filled at that. You think this lady "casually" mentioned her Lesbianism. No, I think this team, and the article seems to back it, was an openly gay/straight team, and when the Church learned of it, told em "Sorry, but no".

That seems to be far too much for many people here to comprehend.

Here's another article with a different take:

Church: Softball team with gay coach can't play - USATODAY.com

Jacobson said she registered, paid the entry fee and attended an organizational meeting. Later, a church official called her seeking another meeting. At that one, officials began questioning whether she was gay. When she said she was, they told her the team could not play.

What she did was not lie to them when asked.

 

[jallman]

Stupid woman. A "Gay and Straight" team trying to play in a Church League in Tenn. Gee, could anyone imagine this being a problem?

Seriously, this is just stupid, this was a set up, they knew they'd be booted, and now they are victims. Stupid Stupid people. It's a PRIVATE LEAGUE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO EXPECT THEM TO ACCEPT YOU.


Period. End of Story.

I lived in Raleigh, NC and there were church leagues that had openly gay people on them. How was she to know that the sexual orientation of some players would bar the team unless it was specifically written into the rules.

They should at least get their registration fee back in full.

 

[justabubba]

Nah, ya'll are just questioning the Church's actions for fun right? :roll:

the legality of it is not at issue

the morality of it might be, and certainly the reasonableness of the church's homophobia deserves scrutiny

 

[Renae]

Here's another article with a different take:

Church: Softball team with gay coach can't play - USATODAY.com

Jacobson said her team is made up of straight and gay players. They were looking for more games to play when they discovered the Cordova church had a league.

What she did was not lie to them when asked.

Note, the team is a mixed Straight/Gay team. What did they think the Church would do?

 

[Tucker Case]

Note, the team is a mixed Straight/Gay team. What did they think the Church would do?

Allow them to play in the league. :shrug:

I'm surprised by their decision to reject them. I truly believed that the stance of Southern Christians was "Hate the sin, love the sinner".

Apparently that isn't the case, according to what you seem to be saying.

And, correct me if I'm wrong on this, what it seems that you are saying is that the stereotype of Southern Baptist anti-gay bigotry is not a false one. Would that be an accurate description of what you are telling me?

 

[Renae]

Allow them to play in the league. :shrug:

I'm surprised by their decision to reject them. I truly believed that the stance of Southern Christians was "Hate the sin, love the sinner".

Apparently that isn't the case, according to what you seem to be saying.

And, correct me if I'm wrong on this, what it seems that you are saying is that the stereotype of Southern Baptist anti-gay bigotry is not a false one. Would that be an accurate description of what you are telling me?

It's not Bigotry, and not a one of you would dare admit that for fear you might be branded a "Gay hater". They believe Homosexuality is WRONG. Thus to allow a team with a Gay message might lead people to believe the CHURCH supports the lifestyle.

I'm amazed, many of you throwing a temper tantrum here are the same ones that back the asinine belief that if a Manger is on City Property that is "Violating the Separation of Church and State". (which doesn't exist but hey whatever) Under the precept that by allowing a Manger the City is acting for the State which is by fiat acting as a "law passed by Congress Establishing a Religion". I smell a whole lot of PC BS going on, and it stinks.

 

[Redress]

It's not Bigotry, and not a one of you would dare admit that for fear you might be branded a "Gay hater". They believe Homosexuality is WRONG. Thus to allow a team with a Gay message might lead people to believe the CHURCH supports the lifestyle.

I'm amazed, many of you throwing a temper tantrum here are the same ones that back the asinine belief that if a Manger is on City Property that is "Violating the Separation of Church and State". (which doesn't exist but hey whatever) Under the precept that by allowing a Manger the City is acting for the State which is by fiat acting as a "law passed by Congress Establishing a Religion". I smell a whole lot of PC BS going on, and it stinks.

Where is this gay message? There is no evidence that the team had any message other than maybe "softball is fun"? You also failed to answer my question about how many gays on a team makes it a "gay team". Is it 1? 2? half? 75 %?

 

[Tucker Case]

It's not Bigotry, and not a one of you would dare admit that for fear you might be branded a "Gay hater". They believe Homosexuality is WRONG. Thus to allow a team with a Gay message might lead people to believe the CHURCH supports the lifestyle.

You've invented this gay message. There was nothing that indicated this team was promoting a "gay message". And believing homosexuality is wrong is one thing, excluding someone for simply being a homosexual is another. One is disagreeing with a person's behavior, the other is disagreeing with the person's presense.

I'm amazed, many of you throwing a temper tantrum here are the same ones that back the asinine belief that if a Manger is on City Property that is "Violating the Separation of Church and State". (which doesn't exist but hey whatever) Under the precept that by allowing a Manger the City is acting for the State which is by fiat acting as a "law passed by Congress Establishing a Religion". I smell a whole lot of PC BS going on, and it stinks.

1. How is my statement a temper tantrum?

2. Where have I ever stated that a manger on city property is a "violation of church and state"? I do recall saying quite the opposite, in fact.

3. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do this. Stated the opposite in fact. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with their behavior. But it's not like I would exclude them from a softball league over that or anything.

 

[jambalaya]

The team was made up of both gay and strait players. What percentage of the team had to be gay for it to be considered a "gay softball team"? Law of averages says most softball teams have at least 1 gay on them.

That is true. My daughter plays softball and we have one girl on the team whose mother told us she is gay and two gay females raising one of the other girls on the team. I am definitely suspicious of at least one other girl. But it is all good. Everyone gets along very well and just has a good time.

I think the issue was the openly gay coach more than the girls. For the most part it is kind of a don't ask don't tell atmosphere surrounding the girls. Nobody makes a big deal about their sexuality one way or another. They play softball.

 

[Renae]

Where is this gay message? There is no evidence that the team had any message other than maybe "softball is fun"? You also failed to answer my question about how many gays on a team makes it a "gay team". Is it 1? 2? half? 75 %?

It's a Conservative Church Softball League. That means Families, Flags, and Apple Pie. They don't want deviant behavior around them, their families or to been seen as supporting a sinful life. That's how it is for them. That you people **** on their beliefs because you want YOUR beliefs to force them to change is sick. They are hurting no one, and this team can find a league that is less concerned with who is playing and more concerned with softball.

 

[Renae]

You've invented this gay message. There was nothing that indicated this team was promoting a "gay message". And believing homosexuality is wrong is one thing, excluding someone for simply being a homosexual is another. One is disagreeing with a person's behavior, the other is disagreeing with the person's presense.





1. How is my statement a temper tantrum?

2. Where have I ever stated that a manger on city property is a "violation of church and state"? I do recall saying quite the opposite, in fact.

3. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do this. Stated the opposite in fact. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with their behavior. But it's not like I would exclude them from a softball league over that or anything.

Whatever Tucker. You're more then intelligent enough to get the problem, but admitting that a Church Softball League probably isn't the place for a "Gay Friendly Team" requires you to admit that the Church has the right to keep it's league a certain way. That's just not PC and you cannot bare to admit that.


Oh, and the fact this made "the news" is why I smell a rat.

 

[justabubba]

It's a Conservative Church Softball League. That means Families, Flags, and Apple Pie. They don't want deviant behavior around them, their families or to been seen as supporting a sinful life. That's how it is for them. That you people **** on their beliefs because you want YOUR beliefs to force them to change is sick. They are hurting no one, and this team can find a league that is less concerned with who is playing and more concerned with softball.

my guess is the team which was banned assumed the league was about playing softball rather than sexual orientation
which is why that conservative values league needs to state its prerequisites for participation

 

[roughdraft274]

It's not Bigotry, and not a one of you would dare admit that for fear you might be branded a "Gay hater". They believe Homosexuality is WRONG. Thus to allow a team with a Gay message might lead people to believe the CHURCH supports the lifestyle.

I'm amazed, many of you throwing a temper tantrum here are the same ones that back the asinine belief that if a Manger is on City Property that is "Violating the Separation of Church and State". (which doesn't exist but hey whatever) Under the precept that by allowing a Manger the City is acting for the State which is by fiat acting as a "law passed by Congress Establishing a Religion". I smell a whole lot of PC BS going on, and it stinks.

The only reason i can conceive for you to start up with this "temper tantrum" stuff is that you're loosing the argument and you know it.

No one hear is arguing the legality of it. That's why you tried to change it to that. You were grasping for straws.

This is also why you're bringing up the separation of church and state. It has nothing to do with this thread what so ever but of course that won't stop you, lol.

They have a right to kick gays out of their league, and we have the RIGHT to voice our criticism.

It must be all those mean gay soft ballers trying to stir up controversy. It must be their fault.

 

[roughdraft274]

Whatever Tucker. You're more then intelligent enough to get the problem, but admitting that a Church Softball League probably isn't the place for a "Gay Friendly Team" requires you to admit that the Church has the right to keep it's league a certain way. That's just not PC and you cannot bare to admit that.


Oh, and the fact this made "the news" is why I smell a rat.

Once again, no one in this thread has said that they don't have the right to do this. I have no idea why you're still arguing against people like their trying to say what they did was illegal.

If this team joined just to flaunt their gayness in this church league, then I completely understand why the church did what they did.

If they just caught wind that a few of the kids could be gay and that the coach might be gay (like the article makes it sound) then they still had the right, but in my opinion they're a bunch of bigoted idiots that spend more time judging others than actually reading the Bible that they try to shove down others throats. I'm willing to bet they wouldn't kick a team off because the coach was a single parent.

 

[ADK_Forever]

Did anyone post the rules of this league? If so, I must have missed them.

If the league does not have a rule discriminating against gays, and they accepted the team's money, and then kicked the team out they might be open to a lawsuit. I know they're private but, they may have to follow some base line laws.

This action by this particular church illustrates the hypocrisy and hidden evil in some churches. So much for loving all people, ehh?

Somehow playing a softball game with a, God forbid, GAY somehow means that the church approves of gays? :roll: The stupid bigots couldn't have chosen to let the team play and show that, while they do not condone the lifestyle they do love the person? Oh no... they had to flex their bully-like power against an entire team. Nice church. :doh

Thus the stupid evil and hatred and "Us versus them" mentality that is the basis for many religions and churches.

This church "may" have legally been allowed to kick this team out but, all that action really did was expose the church's bigotry and hidden evil.

 

[Renae]

my guess is the team which was banned assumed the league was about playing softball rather than sexual orientation
which is why that conservative values league needs to state its prerequisites for participation

It's a Church league, which implies there are Values shared among the members, but only liberals need everything dictated to them.

 

[Renae]

Did anyone post the rules of this league? If so, I must have missed them.

If the league does not have a rule discriminating against gays, and they accepted the team's money, and then kicked the team out they might be open to a lawsuit. I know they're private but, they may have to follow some base line laws.

This action by this particular church illustrates the hypocrisy and hidden evil in some churches. So much for loving all people, ehh?

Somehow playing a softball game with a, God forbid, GAY somehow means that the church approves of gays? :roll: The stupid bigots couldn't have chosen to let the team play and show that, while they do not condone the lifestyle they do love the person? Oh no... they had to flex their bully-like power against an entire team. Nice church. :doh

Thus the stupid evil and hatred and "Us versus them" mentality that is the basis for many religions and churches.

This church "may" have legally been allowed to kick this team out but, all that action really did was expose the church's bigotry and hidden evil.

Yes, a Church promoting it's Family Values, just eeeevvvvviiiiilllll.

 

[Redress]

It's a Conservative Church Softball League. That means Families, Flags, and Apple Pie. They don't want deviant behavior around them, their families or to been seen as supporting a sinful life. That's how it is for them. That you people **** on their beliefs because you want YOUR beliefs to force them to change is sick. They are hurting no one, and this team can find a league that is less concerned with who is playing and more concerned with softball.

Wow, that is impressive, You responded to me without addressing either of my questions. You also managed to flat out lie and use over the top rhetoric. Overall, you managed to make a post bordering on hysterics that makes your point look even weaker than it would normally.

Gays are all in favor of families, flags and apple pie. See, common ground.

It's a softball league. No one is supporting any political message. They are trying to have fun.

No one is ****ting on any one's beliefs. No one is saying the church did not have a right to do what it did. Still makes them assholes.

Now, again, since you seem to be too afraid to answer these questions...

1) Where is the gay message?

2) What percentage of a team has to be gay for it to be a gay team?

 

[rivrrat]

I wonder if they ask each person participating if they've ever committed any "sins" before they allow them to participate. I mean, if they allow people to play who have had sex prior to marriage, that would imply that they condone that, right? Surely they ask everyone if they've ever "sinned" so they can have a "sin free" softball league that promotes "family values".

 

[ADK_Forever]

Wow, that is impressive, You responded to me without addressing either of my questions. You also managed to flat out lie and use over the top rhetoric. Overall, you managed to make a post bordering on hysterics that makes your point look even weaker than it would normally.

Gays are all in favor of families, flags and apple pie. See, common ground.

It's a softball league. No one is supporting any political message. They are trying to have fun.

No one is ****ting on any one's beliefs. No one is saying the church did not have a right to do what it did. Still makes them assholes.

Now, again, since you seem to be too afraid to answer these questions...

1) Where is the gay message?

2) What percentage of a team has to be gay for it to be a gay team?

Actually, they may be open to a lawsuit. This was not a church league. They opened it up to the public and once they did that their protection of being able to do whatever bigoted, evil thing they want to may have gone out the window. :lol: I hope they get their collars taken from them! :2rofll:

 

[winston53660]

Yes, a Church promoting it's Family Values, just eeeevvvvviiiiilllll.

Well if a family value is bigotry yeah they are pretty evil.

 

[Zyphlin]

Its funny. Conservatives say that muslims have a "right" to build a mosque on whatever land they own, but that they disagree with the behavoir and they find that perfectly acceptable.

However, people say the church has a "right" to deny this team entry, but that htey disagree with the behavoir and somehow that's just a cover up for the fact they don't think they should be allowed to do it?

Gotta love consistancy.

Tuck makes a great point that the church is exceedingly hypocritical if they let any other coaches that are sinful play. Do they have a coach who engages regularly in premarital sex? Cause that's a sinful life style. Do they have a coach who regularly uses the lords name in vain when they get frustrated, which is also sinful? How about do they have any coaches that have children out of wedlock? Or is there just CERTAIN sins they don't want to look like they condone but others are okay?

They have every right to do this. I think they're being a bit ridiculous however punishing a group of kids due to the sexual preference of their coach, and worrying more about their IMAGE then what the bible actually preaches seems to me a hardly christian thing to do. Much like I felt with the mosque thing in NYC, I don't agree with this, but its not wrong in a legal sense for them to do it even if it rather idiotic and douchy.

 

[roughdraft274]

I would be very curious to see if they play any games or are allowed to practice on Sundays...

 

[Toothpicvic]

IF you people can't get that the Church didn't want ot be seen as promoting a Sinful lifestyle,

How is sexual orientation a "lifestyle"? And now I'm wondering if the church will end up booting out all of it's obese members, just to be consistent with what the Bible says, since it commands that gluttons be shunned:

Proverbs 28:7 “He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.”

Uh oh, it's gonna be bad news in the afterlife for these fatties:

and they have the right to not associate with them... I can't help you.

Yeah I agree, as long as that right applies equally to all private businesses. If Wal-Mart can get sued and lose for booting out gay employees, then I have no sympathy if the same happens to this congregation of sinners (gluttons - I'm betting that at least 50% of the female members are obese - this has been the case with nearly every fundie church I've visited.) :2razz:

 

[Tucker Case]

That's just not PC and you cannot bare to admit that.

I guess if one chooses to ignore the fact that I've stated multiple times in this thread that they do have a right to do this, the above conspiracy theory makes sense.

But for those of us who choose not to wallow in willful ignorance it just sounds like another retarded conspiracy theory that ignores all facets of reality.