Americans - would you support single-payer?

[rahl]

OK, since the US has (some) single-payer programs are you just fine with things as they are now? If not, then you must be advocating for something more universal.

No, I’m advocating for single payor

 

[Allan]

No mention of any deductibles or copays (except for room and board in long-term care facilities) was included. Does that mean there are none and prescription drugs are also at no out-of-pocket costs?

Zero co-pays. Prescriptions are covered in hospital. Prescriptions are capped at $100.00 a year for seniors and free for anyone under 25.

Of course, no mention of how this was funded was included either. Have no idea what the federal and/or province taxes are like in Canada.

The cost on average is $496.00/yr per taxpayer. Under the formula the wealthy pay a lot more (up to 20k).

 

[aociswundumho]

It’s funny because siphoning trillions of dollars to a bunch of engorged parasite middlemen could be considered part of the “American experience”.

Who are the "engorged parasite middlemen" in this metaphor?

 

[Callen]

Thank you for that link.

No mention of any deductibles or copays (except for room and board in long-term care facilities) was included. Does that mean there are none and prescription drugs are also at no out-of-pocket costs?

Of course, no mention of how this was funded was included either. Have no idea what the federal and/or province taxes are like in Canada.

There are no deductibles or copays. Prescription drugs are covered for seniors. I think our taxes are higher but we don't pay sepatrely for medical insurance so one has to take that into consideration. What you pay for Medicare plus copays.and deductibles must be included in the equation as well.

 

[Lovebug]

Yes.

 

[Lovebug]

I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I've rarely had need of medical assistance, mostly (IMO) because I don't have a lot of "vices" that lead to poor health.

1. I don't smoke. (Nothing, so don't ask if that includes "preferred drugs").

2. I don't drink alcohol of any kind. To be honest it all tastes terrible, and if it tastes bad I figured it's not that good for you.

3. I avoid foods that are full of processed sugars (no candy, no confections, and no soft drinks).

4. I don't do any "recreational drugs."

I have annual physicals at the V.A. and pass them all with flying colors. That is literally the only "medical visits" I've had in decades.

I am not sure I support massive government programs of most kinds, but especially those that give people a false sense of security allowing them to think they can "party on," and someone will come take care of them.

and boom, God forbid, you get into an accident. Now what?

 

[Captain Adverse]

and boom, God forbid, you get into an accident. Now what?

I've been in accidents. I just deal with it. That's what savings and personal insurance (like I have for my car) are for.

We are born, we live, and we eventually die. That's life.

If life meant for everything to have a "safety blanket" you might have a point.

But that's not how it is, and I am not going to go all "socialist" just to make you feel all comfy and secure.

Take your hand out of MY pocket!

 

[Hamish Howl]

I've been in accidents. I just deal with it. That's what savings and personal insurance (like I have for my car) are for.

We are born, we live, and we eventually die. That's life.

If life meant for everything to have a "safety blanket" you might have a point.

But that's not how it is, and I am not going to go all "socialist" just to make you feel all comfy and secure.

Take your hand out of MY pocket!

Well, that was both dismal AND banal. Take a bow.

 

[Absentglare]

Who are the "engorged parasite middlemen" in this metaphor?

Hospitals that are “non-profit” get preferential tax treatment. The requirement of being “non-profit” is just that all the excess revenue needs to be reinvested in the hospital, so there is no “profit”. As a result, hospital administrators salaries keep eating up these “non-profit” profits, making many many millions of dollars even as they implement cost cutting measures to actually reduce quality of care.

Insurers and healthcare providers fight over coverage and pricing, and we end up paying both sides of the fight.

Tying health insurance to employment increases job search frictions. In essence, it gives your employer leverage over you, by injecting them as middlemen into your healthcare.

Do you think the price of insulin shrank to 1/20th the value by magic? What happened is some engorged parasite was forced to tighten their belt thanks to us California liberals. You’re welcome.

 

[Greenbeard]

I've been in accidents. I just deal with it. That's what savings and personal insurance (like I have for my car) are for.

We are born, we live, and we eventually die. That's life.

If life meant for everything to have a "safety blanket" you might have a point.

But that's not how it is, and I am not going to go all "socialist" just to make you feel all comfy and secure.

Take your hand out of MY pocket!

What happened to this guy:

Personally I would like to see real public health care; single-payer following whichever active model has shown to be the most cost-effective, while satisfying health-care practitioner's reasonable wage/benefits expectations, and still providing decent heath care across the board.

Of course, I'd also like to see our economy revived, everyone having access to decent jobs, employers making good profits, production return to the USA, universal social acceptance of an individual right to keep and bear arms...and peace on earth among many other things.

A man can dream. :coffeepap:

 

[Allan]

I've been in accidents. I just deal with it. That's what savings and personal insurance (like I have for my car) are for.

For this analogy to work you'd pay for your own car accident.

 

[Greenbeard]

The people, the culture, the history, and so much more pretty much guarantee the same system won't work similarly here.

My observation has been that people like the paternalism of the employer-based system, and they really like transitioning to the (cheaper) paternalism of Medicare when they hit the magic age.

Americans (like most everybody else) seem to want to pay as little out of pocket as they can without being bothered by a lot of complicated decision-making. What's the cultural mismatch you're seeing?

 

[Lovebug]

I've been in accidents. I just deal with it. That's what savings and personal insurance (like I have for my car) are for.

We are born, we live, and we eventually die. That's life.

If life meant for everything to have a "safety blanket" you might have a point.

But that's not how it is, and I am not going to go all "socialist" just to make you feel all comfy and secure.

Take your hand out of MY pocket!

Yes, it is called caring for each other in our time of need. I case you don't know, we do pay for each other's needs already, whether it is my tax $ paying for a physical or some unnecessary ED visit because preventative measures would have been cheaper had we put our resources together.
I've seen some big guys cry, if not for themselves but for their loved ones. Kids or grands being struck by cancer. No, not the type people are asking for because of some indulgence, just some random stuff.
Callousness is difficult to swallow.

 

[Parrish]

Just a temperature check on how Americans feel about single-payer universal health care.

I always have.

 

[tshade]

Are you saying our method of paying for health care is the primary reason for that?

A reason, at least

 

[Bullseye]

Just a temperature check on how Americans feel about single-payer universal health care.

As long as the pay has nothing to do with the government.

 

[Superfly]

Zero co-pays. Prescriptions are covered in hospital. Prescriptions are capped at $100.00 a year for seniors and free for anyone under 25.

The cost on average is $496.00/yr per taxpayer. Under the formula the wealthy pay a lot more (up to 20k).

$41 a month. Damn.

 

[Greenbeard]

As long as the pay has nothing to do with the government.

Maybe Exxon can do it.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Same. I’ve never had much issue with the VA except once in Alabama.

Avoid the Memphis VA at all costs.
That is all

 

[Superfly]

I've been in accidents. I just deal with it. That's what savings and personal insurance (like I have for my car) are for.

We are born, we live, and we eventually die. That's life.

If life meant for everything to have a "safety blanket" you might have a point.

But that's not how it is, and I am not going to go all "socialist" just to make you feel all comfy and secure.

Take your hand out of MY pocket!

Says the guy who comfortably uses the VA for medical care. Hypocritical post.

 

[weaver2]

Are you saying our method of paying for health care is the primary reason for that?

Yes. Our method of paying for health care doesn't cover everyone and is the primary reason for our abysmal statistics on health of our citizens.
We have the 4th highest infant mortality rate in the world after Mexico, Columbia and Costa Rico.
Our maternal death rate is a bit better . We are 122nd from the worst country South Sudan. Look at the countries that have lower maternal death rates than we have. Gaza strip!!!!????? Oman!!!??? We can't do better than Gaza and Oman?

122	United States	21	2020 est.
123	Lebanon	21	2020 est.
124	Malaysia	21	2020 est.
125	West Bank	20	2020 est.
126	Gaza Strip	20	2020 est.
127	Uruguay	19	2020 est.
128	Latvia	18	2020 est.
129	Egypt	17	2020 est.
130	Turkey (Turkiye)	17	2020 est.
131	Tajikistan	17	2020 est.
132	Oman	17	2020 est.
133	Ukraine	17	2020 est.

 

[Superfly]

Avoid the Memphis VA at all costs.
That is all

A guy who used to work for me had a stroke waiting in the hallway for a bed at the Memphis VA. He ended up pretty ****ed up because they didn’t get to him in time.

I’ve never personally been there so I can’t speak for them, but my one bad instance with a VA is Huntsville, Alabama.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

There are no deductibles or copays. Prescription drugs are covered for seniors. I think our taxes are higher but we don't pay sepatrely for medical insurance so one has to take that into consideration. What you pay for Medicare plus copays.and deductibles must be included in the equation as well.

To put a fine point on it, one of the reasons so many car manufacturers moved operations to Canadian plants is because taxes covered healthcare for the auto workers whereas in the USA the car company has to cover worker healthcare policies.
Same reason for moving operations to Mexico, not that Mexican healthcare is necessarily always stellar, but the car companies aren't on the hook for paying for worker healthcare down there either.
And Mexico's system is sorta kinda a single payer system...about 70 percent of Mexicans are covered by their public healthcare system.

If you want more heavy manufacturing to come back to the USA with good stable high paying jobs to go with it, you have to allow yourself to consider single payer.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

No.

I would support however getting the federal government out of our healthcare entirely. Nothing is so inefficient or wastefully expensive as a federal "program."

Moreover, I don't believe the general welfare clause - butchered as it's been over the decades - supports the federal government running, or even regulating the nation's healthcare system.

You would do away with Medicare, arguably the most efficient and beneficial government program in history, which has given healthcare access to millions and millions of Americans. And Medicare exists today because way back in the 1950s some very smart people realized that health insurance companies had no interest in marketing to a bunch of old people who tended to suck up a lot of resources by getting sick.

Seniors as a group tend to be of lower income in their later years and you would strip them of even that if they refused to die.

The entire industrialized world treats healthcare like infrastructure while we treat it like any other commodity. If you can't afford healthcare **** off and die!

 

[Captain Adverse]

Yes, it is called caring for each other in our time of need. I case you don't know, we do pay for each other's needs already, whether it is my tax $ paying for a physical or some unnecessary ED visit because preventative measures would have been cheaper had we put our resources together.
I've seen some big guys cry, if not for themselves but for their loved ones. Kids or grands being struck by cancer. No, not the type people are asking for because of some indulgence, just some random stuff.
Callousness is difficult to swallow.

Emotional appeal...denied.

I will choose what to do with my resources as I see fit. If I can help a person I can see in real need, I will. That is real, it is in front of me, and I can act as needed.

But when it comes to the great mass of humanity and creating social safety nets, all I have seen is people in power using those funds for their own purposes and goals.

Buying power with giveaways using other people's money.

That's my last word on the subject. Feel free to have yours...