Americans - would you support single-payer?

[washunut]

Of course. Universal means universal. The extremely caring politicians who will impose this scheme believe everyone has the right to healthcare.

Very generous of them.

 

[washunut]

That's a slightly different question. I was responding to whether tourists etc would get their healthcare covered by the American tax payer. There is a different question about how to manage illegal immigrants. My preference is to expel them, but that is a very complicated process. If an illegal immigrant needs urgent life threatening health care while in the country, then yes I think you will find pretty much all countries will provide at least the minimal life saving treatment under general humanitarian laws.

What about a non life threatening health problem?

 

[Pyrite]

And ignorance of how the rest of us manage.

In 2022, I was informed I needed emergency surgery ($100,000) to avoid becoming a quadriplegic. My out of pocket costs were around $10,000. And I was laid up recovering for 3 months, which means that I took a 25% hit on my annual wages. Had to dip into retirement savings to make ends meet. I recovered and returned to work.

My father-in-law had no idea the costs were that high. He was genuinely surprised that I was not eligible for 'unemployment' benefits with my surgical recovery. If it weren't for FMLA, I may have lost my job.

Still, he sees no reason why the current healthcare situation in America should change.

I understand. I see this mentality a lot. For example, VFW members (I am one) who accept free medical / health care from the VA - including excellent hearing aids - but vehemently insist that this kind of government health care should not be offered to other Americans.

 

[NolanVoyd]

An opinion I don't share.

Those are facts not opinions.

 

[Bullseye]

Perhaps you should compare Exxon's brutal killings, land takings, pollution, environmental destruction, oil spills, outright flaunting of laws, illegal treatment of indigenous people, tax evasion, illegal financial manipulation of smaller countries monetary system to how Social Security or Medicare work systems work.

Perhaps you should grasp that I'm not advising Exxon to take over helathcere. Try to grasp the context before you spew an irrational brain fart.

 

[bomberfox]

As they should, considering the US has higher infant mortality rates than many other developed countries. Why do you think that is? Could it have to do with the expectant mothers not having proper medical care?



I’ve been on it for years. I’ve been on Tricare Prime for probably 20 years, and Medicare for 8.

I have absolutely no issue with either. They both work as designed.

Ive been on government run healthcare until my dependency ran out. It was pretty good. Now my pharmacy just all of a sudden drops the generic version of my medicine and because its a controlled substance i cant do anything about my raised rate. Also having to pay 200 bucks for my cat’s insulin really ******ing sucked.

 

[bomberfox]

Also in countries with UHC you dont have to worry about vulture capitalism squeezing your hospital for every penny and citizens can call an ambulance without going bankrupt. Businesses can operate without worrying about managing their employees health insurance which allows them to focus on doing business.

 

[Pyrite]

Ive been on government run healthcare until my dependency ran out. It was pretty good. Now my pharmacy just all of a sudden drops the generic version of my medicine and because its a controlled substance i cant do anything about my raised rate. Also having to pay 200 bucks for my cat’s insulin really ******ing sucked.

I am really sorry. There is no way we should keep allowing these circumstances to prevail.

Good luck.

 

[Pyrite]

Also in countries with UHC you dont have to worry about vulture capitalism squeezing your hospital for every penny and citizens can call an ambulance without going bankrupt.

Too many people still don't know they will receive a bill for an ambulance call/ride - and, of those who do, I'd say most have no idea how monstrously high that bill will be. (Or that insurance won't pay for it.)

 

[bomberfox]

I am really sorry. There is no way we should keep allowing these circumstances to prevail.

Good luck.

I mean the controlled substance thing is idiot politicians fault like you really cant have even one emergency dose because no politician is going to give a shit if life doesnt work out like they think it will so people that need the medication are just left to steam,

 

[bomberfox]

Too many people still don't know they will receive a bill for an ambulance call/ride - and, of those who do, I'd say most have no idea how monstrously high that bill will be. (Or that insurance won't pay for it.)

That too. Our ambulatory services are getting gutted by private equity as well. It just needs to be a public service like the fire department.

 

[Pyrite]

That too. Our ambulatory services are getting gutted by private equity as well. It just needs to be a public service like the fire department.

Good point about outsourcing/privatizing ambulatory services.

 

[Superfly]

I have zero knowledge about Huntsville but the first two and a half years Karen and I were together in Jonesboro Arkansas we could pick Little Rock or Memphis and Little Rock was easily two and a half hours each way whereas Memphis was about 45 minutes.
Memphis did absolutely NOTHING for Karen. They would see her, do the Twenty Questions, poke her with needles and say "Come back in six months" and when the six months came around it was a different doctor who would start completely over again, Twenty Questions, poke and prod, lather, rinse, repeat.

I don't know WHY Memphis' VA is so incorrigibly awful but the ratings have never gone above one star according to the VA's own internal accounting.

Most all of the other facilities have decent ratings but if you say Huntsville sucks, I take your word for it.
Dallas and Long Beach CA are both excellent although Long Beach is currently suffering from staffing shortages thanks to congressional football with the budgets but a lot of that goes all the way back to ****ing Gingrich who flipped the playbook between discretionary and non-discretionary spending a full 180 so that plant maintenance, construction and remodeling are NON-discretionary and actual HEALTH CARE BUDGETS (that pay for doctors, equipment, nurses, technicians, drugs and research) is discretionary.
Yes, you're thinking what I am thinking, it should be the OTHER WAY AROUND.

So what we now have is a big ****ing JOBS PROGRAM for construction contractors and tons of VA facilities with new buildings, gardens, walkways, atriums, grand pianos in lobbies (locked to prevent being played) and art on the walls, but a shortage of doctors unless the patient complaints where they then send them to the outside world.
It works JUST LIKE charter schools, draining the VA while enriching private practice.

Republicans do not give two shits about serving veterans and it shows.
Dallas and Long Beach do a great job DESPITE all this.
And it shows.

The best one we’ve ever been to was Syracuse, but it had its own VA issues as well, namely what you mentioned - almost every ****ing time you go in there, there’s a different doctor. You can’t get used to a good doctor because they shuffle them around and you never see them again.

Huntsville - ok so we were moving from Syracuse to Huntsville and hubs had chest pains. We went to the Syracuse VA and they wanted to cath him immediately, as he was a heart patient. He refused, as we already had the moving truck packed and our lease was up. He explained that we would be in Huntsville the next day, and we would go then. We got to Huntsville and they told us to call Birmingham. Birmingham gave us a 5-month wait for an emergency cardiac appointment. We explained to them exactly what Syracuse told us to say, and they did not care. 5 months for his appointment.

 

[Superfly]

If I had to buy a plan it’d be over $600/mo just for a silver plan covering me, and that doesn’t include the out-of-pocket expenses.

I know. My adult daughters can’t afford health insurance and they are too old to be on mine. I worry all the time about this.

 

[Superfly]

Ive been on government run healthcare until my dependency ran out. It was pretty good. Now my pharmacy just all of a sudden drops the generic version of my medicine and because its a controlled substance i cant do anything about my raised rate. Also having to pay 200 bucks for my cat’s insulin really ******ing sucked.

I’m on a heart medication that the VA will cover, but it’s weird - there are several manufacturers that make it, but only Glenmark manufacturing makes the pill that works for me. The rest - when I take them, I can tell they aren’t working. My heart goes wonky.

So all my prescriptions come from the VA and express scripts with the exception of this one, that I have to pay out of pocket for.

 

[Superfly]

I mean the controlled substance thing is idiot politicians fault like you really cant have even one emergency dose because no politician is going to give a shit if life doesnt work out like they think it will so people that need the medication are just left to steam,

My mother is on a pain contract. She is given a medication that doesn’t really work, and her doctor refuses to change it for her to something that will actually work.

She can’t leave him and find another doctor because she is under a pain contract with him.

 

[aociswundumho]

In fairness, the likelihood that Republicans would insist on under-resourcing the health care system is a legitimate reason to be wary of single-payer.

In other words, Republican would refuse to raise taxes high enough.

But that's true of Democrats as well, which is why no blue state has single payer.

Certainly it's not hard to find examples where making all health care resource allocation a political decision has led to unfortunate results.

Political decisions by their very nature tend to be poor decisions. Imagine, for example, trying to build a house, where all of the decisions regarding its construction were made by politics.

In the past I would've said "probably not," but lately I'm moved firmly into the "maybe!" camp.

What has changed to move you into the maybe camp?

 

[aociswundumho]

My mother is on a pain contract. She is given a medication that doesn’t really work, and her doctor refuses to change it for her to something that will actually work.

She can’t leave him and find another doctor because she is under a pain contract with him.

The situation today for chronic pain patients is absolutely barbaric. All because of the drug war.

 

[Superfly]

The situation today for chronic pain patients is absolutely barbaric. All because of the drug war.

Absolutely is. I’ve seen my 75 year old mother cry out in pain, and they do nothing. She won’t let me say anything, either, which makes it even worse.

 

[Pyrite]

My mother is on a pain contract. She is given a medication that doesn’t really work, and her doctor refuses to change it for her to something that will actually work.

She can’t leave him and find another doctor because she is under a pain contract with him.

Didn't know about pain contracts. (I've since done a cursory search.)

Thanks for mentioning them.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

In other words, Republican would refuse to raise taxes high enough.

But that's true of Democrats as well, which is why no blue state has single payer.



Political decisions by their very nature tend to be poor decisions. Imagine, for example, trying to build a house, where all of the decisions regarding its construction were made by politics.



What has changed to move you into the maybe camp?

Political decisions tend to be poor decisions . . . you mean like when it comes to women's healthcare? Aociswondumho, please tell me you're not pro-life.

 

[aociswundumho]

Political decisions tend to be poor decisions . . . you mean like when it comes to women's healthcare? Aociswondumho, please tell me you're not pro-life.

I'm pro-choice on everything.

 

[aociswundumho]

Absolutely is. I’ve seen my 75 year old mother cry out in pain, and they do nothing. She won’t let me say anything, either, which makes it even worse.

Yeah, you have to be careful, or they'll cut you off completely.

My first wife had chronic pain from a car accident, and they would not give her enough pain meds no matter what. Luckily I was able to get her percs off the street, but without them she told me she would have killed herself. There was just no way she could tolerate it.

 

[CharloTexan]

I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I've rarely had need of medical assistance, mostly (IMO) because I don't have a lot of "vices" that lead to poor health.

1. I don't smoke. (Nothing, so don't ask if that includes "preferred drugs").

2. I don't drink alcohol of any kind. To be honest it all tastes terrible, and if it tastes bad I figured it's not that good for you.

3. I avoid foods that are full of processed sugars (no candy, no confections, and no soft drinks).

4. I don't do any "recreational drugs."

I have annual physicals at the V.A. and pass them all with flying colors. That is literally the only "medical visits" I've had in decades.

I am not sure I support massive government programs of most kinds, but especially those that give people a false sense of security allowing them to think they can "party on," and someone will come take care of them.

What about healthcare for people who aren't exactly like you, and as fortunate as you - I mean, if there are any such people - just asking. I'm assuming you recognize that there are other non-Adverse people on your planet, right Captain?

 

[post]

We need to raise taxes across almost the whole board and pay for it. I don't give a shit about labels. It's more financially efficient. Complaints about single payer systems are necessarily cherry-picked.

As a concession to the for profit "gatekeepers" in 1966, Medicare claims are processed by the interests that would be put out of business by
single payer and the 20% cut they are entitled to "earn" per ACA could be repurposed for claims processing and fraud investigation.

It is reasonable to expect single payer to initially lower the cost of insurance by 15 percent. Is it still health "insurance" if single payer initiates
a right to specified treatment for specified disorders without a private for profit gatekeeper dividing the pie between itself and care providers?

France simply subsidizes the purchases of treatment under the theory that the market sets the price private care providers are able to obtain, as if
all beneficiaries had at least the private means to cover the costs, vs. the UK employing the care providers in a government owned system.

Nearly 5 year old article,

https://www.thestreet.com/retirement-daily/social-security-medicare/how-to-make-the-most-of-medicare-14877334

February, 2019

"..Medicare Part C is a bit more complicated: It's basically private insurance funded by the federal government. Commonly known as Medicare Advantage, with Part C you pledge your government Medicare payments to a private healthcare organization, typically an HMO, and they provide coverage that is at least equal to what Medicare provides directly. In most cases, these plans provide considerably more services. The downside is that you have to stay within their network or face higher out-of-pocket costs.
For those who don't choose Medicare Advantage, there are health plans that cover the gap between what the doctor charges and what Medicare will pay (known as Medicare Supplement or Medigap plans). There are quite a few flavors of these, which we will discuss below, and choosing one can be a major undertaking.

Not all doctors take Medicare. Those that do fall into two categories: "participating" and "non-participating." The participating physician takes what Medicare reimburses as payment in full for services, while the non-participating physician can charge up to 15% more than Medicare provides. If you visit the latter often, you'll want a Medigap plan that covers this additional 15%. Then there's the doctor that has opted out of Medicare. These physicians don't take any payments from Medicare, so that you must pay them in full out of your own pocket...;"

​

​