Abortion And The BIBLE

[Lursa]

Equal as in the laws apply to.................................EVERYONE!
First, you're making it like this is about a battle between a mother and her unborn......and, now - a battle of the sexes?


That would be like we're talking about breeding cows.....and suddenly, you bring up Sleeping in Seattle!

This has nothing to do with equality - therefore, your response is even way beyond being a product of poor logic.
I don't even think you've thought about it. It is irrelevant.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Do you believe that God loves men and women equally and created us as equals? Let me know and then we can move on.

 

[Daisy]

What makes consensual sex between people immoral? (I dont mean adultery...we've been discussing fornication, not adultery).

How does people sharing sex break God's Word of compassion, forgiveness, peace, and brotherly love?

Anything else...as you have been unable to absorb or acknowledge so far...is just what fallible men of the times 'claim' that God told them. Some may have gotten it right, some may have gotten it wrong, and so we can only go by God's Word to be sure.

Fornication is immoral sex...duh...the sexual act is for uniting 2 people in marriage, the perfect bond of union...nothing else...

"Do you not know that anyone who is joined to a prostitute is one body with her? For “the two,” says he, “will be one flesh.” 1 Corinthians 6:16

"For this is the will of God, that you should be holy and abstain from sexual immorality." 1 Thessalonians 4:3

 

[Lursa]

Fornication is immoral sex...duh...the sexual act is for uniting 2 people in marriage, the perfect bond of union...nothing else...

"Do you not know that anyone who is joined to a prostitute is one body with her? For “the two,” says he, “will be one flesh.” 1 Corinthians 6:16

"For this is the will of God, that you should be holy and abstain from sexual immorality." 1 Thessalonians 4:3

Try again please. You havent even demonstrated, in the past, the proper understanding of the scriptures you post, so please address my questions "as asked." Then you can use your own words to show you actually understand. You dont have to agree...if not, use your own words, based on your faith, to explain.

What makes consensual sex between people immoral? (see below) (I dont mean adultery...we've been discussing fornication, not adultery).​

​

How does people sharing sex break God's Word of compassion, forgiveness, peace, and brotherly love?​

​

Anything else...as you have been unable to absorb or acknowledge so far...is just what fallible men of the times 'claim' that God told them. Some may have gotten it right, some may have gotten it wrong, and so we can only go by God's Word to be sure.​

 

[Daisy]

What makes consensual sex between people immoral?

I just told you why...it is sinning against your own body, as well as sinning against God's commandments...

 

[Lursa]

I just told you why...it is sinning against your own body, as well as sinning against God's commandments...

It does no harm to either partner's body, it's no different physically than married people having sex. That is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

And it's not against any of the 10 Commandments and God's Word also complies with the 10 Commandments (it's murder, not kill).

So stop avoiding it and please answer in your own words (which I give you credit for, you did try)...

What makes consensual sex between people immoral? (see below) (I dont mean adultery...we've been discussing fornication, not adultery).​

​

How does people sharing sex break God's Word of compassion, forgiveness, peace, and brotherly love?​

​

Anything else...as you have been unable to absorb or acknowledge so far...is just what fallible men of the times 'claim' that God told them. Some may have gotten it right, some may have gotten it wrong, and so we can only go by God's Word to be sure.​

 

[Kiwimac]

....because, those who think it applies only to women do not understand it. Lol.
It's explains clearly why it applies to both mother and unborn.


Here is the word-for-word translation from the HEBREW TEXT!

Exodus 21:22 Hebrew Text Analysis

biblehub.com

This is not exactly about a woman.
It is about the CONDITION of the woman - she is PREGNANT!

KEYWORDS: PREGNANT. PREMATURE BIRTH.



Like I said before, children born prematurely doesn't always result in serious injury or death. Some are fine.


If that isn't clear enough - then, there's nothing more to say.

The Torah does not address the issue directly. The principal biblical source for Jewish law on abortion is a passage in Exodus (Exodus 21:22-23) concerning a case in which two men are fighting and injure a pregnant woman, causing her to miscarry. The verse states that if no other harm is done, the person who caused the damage must pay compensatory damages, but if there is further harm, then he should pay with his life. The common rabbinic interpretation is that if the only harm that comes to the woman is the loss of the fetus, it is treated as a case of property damage — not murder

Source

 

[tosca1]

I'm no expert when it comes to the Bible and its verses, however, it would strike me as odd if God’s plan didn't include that every pregnancy should be the result of the expression of love between a man and a woman committed to each other in marriage. A pregnancy should be wanted, and each baby should be loved, valued, and nurtured even before birth.

Talking about the value of one human above another strikes me as something not of the Bible but possibly more akin to politics in 21st century.

Show me in the Bible where it says the unborn have no souls. Science knows the unborn have a brain, a heart and they can feel and communicate with the mother.

It's even in the Bible - the fetus is a reward fro God!

And during the time of Exodus - you'd think it's the time when children - including the unborn - would be valued all the more!
These people were on their way to the Promised Land, and they're going to fulfill the covenant of God with Abraham!
They're going to build a nation! The first among many!

And, on top of that - in the their fourth generation, they were going to come back for war or retribution. They needed kids!

Lursa ignores all that. And I don't think she had read the Bible. Just read this!

Not it's not and I already posted why. Sex is a wonderful thing and He's happy when His Children enjoy and share it.

LMAO, I see you couldnt actually respond to my argument. How does sex outside marriage break God's Word of compassion, forgiveness, brotherly love, and peace?

How can she not know that adultery is a sin?


7. You shall not commit adultery.

 

[tosca1]

More regurgitation by rote and no ability to discuss or defend your view in your own words. I believe that that's often described as 'brainwashing.'

So you're done then? Btw, you are so blindly immersed in your rote regurgitation that you dont realize that God's Word also conforms to the 10 Commandments. (And it's 'murder,' not 'kill.')

You only got that far reading the 10 Commandments?


You never got to.......................... #7?

 

[tosca1]

Yea, something going on with Lursa that speaks to the here and now, I've been saying it all along.

Maybe.....she's not what she claims to be. Don't forget, she isn't just a pro-choice. She's an activist for it.
Maybe, she's a poseur?

I really find it strange the way she tries to "reason" using the Bible.
She's obviously ignorant of the core teachings of Christianity.

 

[tosca1]

I never discussed adultery...only fornication. Cheating does harm people...and that is breaking God's Word. It a sin against 'brotherly love' and 'compassion.'

How does fornication break God's Word? How many times do I have to ask? I already posted why your scriptures written by men of the times 'interpreting' what God 'told' them is not the same as God's Word. Are you incapable of understanding this? Yes or no? If you disagree, fine but at least indicate you can comprehend what I'm saying.

So, please tell me how sharing sex with another person (not adultery) breaks God's Word of compassion, brotherly love, peace, and forgiveness? If it does not do so, it's not a sin.

Fornication is a generalized term for sexual immorality!
Sex out side of marriage is........FORNICATION!


I gave you the verses against fornication.


YOU'RE BREAKING GOD'S WORD!

Without being married to each other - you and your partner both disobey God when you indulge in sex.
You only hurt yourselves in that you both knowingly, and deliberately are disobedient to God's will.


Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one
who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.




UNLESS you both are committed to each other, and are monogamous with each other, as God is your witness - as husbands and wives are -
cleaving to each other - then you are married to one another. You don't need a ceremony to be married, you know.
All you need is God.


But if you're talking about promiscuity and "free love"....................

How can you speak of compassion and brotherly love, when you're leading your partner to perdition?
You know that. And yet, you still do. Therefore, for the reason of SELF-GRATIFICATION, you don't care about your partner (and vice versa).

If you're a Christian, and you know what you do is a sin - how can there be peace living with guilt?

I don't refer to "you," as you personally.



And, forgiveness........what forgiveness are you on about? You're both sinning - lol, you say..... you're forgiving each other?



IT IS GOD'S FORGIVENESS THAT WE ASK FOR.

And.........it comes with REPENTANCE!

 

[tosca1]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Do you believe that God loves men and women equally and created us as equals? Let me know and then we can move on.

Well, yes.....He created and loves us equally, after all - He created all mankind in His image! He died for all of us!

That we have our designated roles based on our gender in the family (based on God's view as an ideal family institution), that doesn't take away
from our equality, and certainly doesn't mean that God loves us any less.

 

[tosca1]

Fornication is immoral sex...duh...the sexual act is for uniting 2 people in marriage, the perfect bond of union...nothing else...

"Do you not know that anyone who is joined to a prostitute is one body with her? For “the two,” says he, “will be one flesh.” 1 Corinthians 6:16

"For this is the will of God, that you should be holy and abstain from sexual immorality." 1 Thessalonians 4:3

Sorry. Wrong response. I thought it's Lursa who posted that. Good thing I caught it.

 

[tosca1]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Do you believe that God loves men and women equally and created us as equals? Let me know and then we can move on.

I know that I've said before................................... GOD values HUMAN LIFE.
And, may I add..............AT ANY STAGE OF LIFE HE IS IN! Even when he's at his last stage! With one foot in the grave!



I don't know what women equality with men got anything to do with this.....thus I said, one minute we're talking about abortion,
and then suddenly you bring this up! I answered that, btw.

I don't know where you're going with this. Enlighten me.

 

[gboisjo]

Lursa said:

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Do you believe that God loves men and women equally and created us as equals? Let me know and then we can move on.

I know that I've said before................................... GOD values HUMAN LIFE.
And, may I add..............AT ANY STAGE OF LIFE HE IS IN! Even when he's at his last stage! With one foot in the grave!



I don't know what women equality with men got anything to do with this.....thus I said, one minute we're talking about abortion,
and then suddenly you bring this up! I answered that, btw.

I don't know where you're going with this. Enlighten me.

Lursa's ramblings grow tiring, she or he is all over the place with this equality thingy and a bunch of other stuff not related to the topic. Arguing just for the
sake of arguing doesn't make sense.

 

[Lursa]

I don't know where you're going with this. Enlighten me.

I dont know what you wanted, that's why I asked. Now it appears you didnt understand your own post *sigh*

 

[Lursa]

Lursa's ramblings grow tiring, she or he is all over the place with this equality thingy and a bunch of other stuff not related to the topic. Arguing just for the
sake of arguing doesn't make sense.

Another display of moral cowardice? You ran from honest debate yet try to remain relevant with childlike rhetoric? Take a look in the mirror for what 'doesnt make sense.'

 

[Daisy]

Another display of moral cowardice? You ran from honest debate yet try to remain relevant with childlike rhetoric? Take a look in the mirror for what 'doesnt make sense.'

Speaking of mirrors...

22 However, become doers of the word+ and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.

23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer,+ this one is like a man looking at his own face* in a mirror.

24 For he looks at himself, and he goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he is.

25 But the one who peers into the perfect law+ that belongs to freedom and continues in it has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; and he will be happy in what he does.+

 

[Lursa]

Sorry. Wrong response. I thought it's Lursa who posted that. Good thing I caught it.

Good lord, you cant keep track of anything. If you focused on the words other people posted and then responded directly to them instead of knee-jerk slogans and regurgitated scripture, you might end up in a constructive discussion. But you just lose it...and fail to properly portray your faith.

 

[Lursa]

Well, yes.....He created and loves us equally, after all - He created all mankind in His image! He died for all of us!

That we have our designated roles based on our gender in the family (based on God's view as an ideal family institution), that doesn't take away
from our equality, and certainly doesn't mean that God loves us any less.

Seems like a decent response. I realize you believe the 2nd paragraph...and those things are derived from our genetic inheritance. People often fall naturally into those gender roles and I support that. I also support either gender doing what is best for them...as they follow God's Word in life.

 

[Lursa]

Speaking of mirrors...

22 However, become doers of the word+ and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.

23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer,+ this one is like a man looking at his own face* in a mirror.

24 For he looks at himself, and he goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he is.

25 But the one who peers into the perfect law+ that belongs to freedom and continues in it has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; and he will be happy in what he does.+

LMAO, more rote regurgitation from someone unable to articulate her own faith. How sad. Someone USING her faith to attack another.

tsk tsk tsk. Such a poor poor example of your faith that you demonstrate.

 

[Daisy]

Seems like a decent response. I realize you believe the 2nd paragraph...and those things are derived from our genetic inheritance. People often fall naturally into those gender roles and I support that. I also support either gender doing what is best for them...as they follow God's Word in life.

Even though the Bible states...

"for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males,+ working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.+" Romans 1:26,27

Got it...

 

[Lursa]

Even though the Bible states...

"for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males,+ working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.+" Romans 1:26,27

Got it...

Wow, you just prove me right over and over. Once more, you cannot articulate any understanding of your faith in your own words. That's a completely bullshit misinterpretation of God's Word by whoever wrote it...by a man with a agenda. And not God's Agenda.

I have asked you time and again to explain how something is a sin when it doesnt break God's Word of compassion, brotherly love, forgiveness, and peace. You never ever manage to do so.

This was just one more clear example...you cannot.

 

[Daisy]

Wow, you just prove me right over and over. Once more, you cannot articulate any understanding of your faith in your own words. That's a completely bullshit misinterpretation of God's Word by whoever wrote it...by a man with a agenda. And not God's Agenda.

I have asked you time and again to explain how something is a sin when it doesnt break God's Word of compassion, brotherly love, forgiveness, and peace. You never ever manage to do so.

This was just one more clear example...you cannot.

You prove me right over and over again regarding who/what you are...

 

[Lursa]

You prove me right over and over again regarding who/what you are...

You cannot even articulate your own faith and you think I worry about who/what you think I am?

 

[Daisy]

You cannot even articulate your own faith and you think I worry about who/what you think I am?

God's Word certainly tells me who/what you are...you should try reading it sometime...