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A chilling of US-UK relations?

Hoplite

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The US and UK have historically had good diplomatic relations during the last century, especially in the recent years.

But I have to wonder if we aren't looking at a possible slowing down of that relationship. There are serious differences over the Lockerbie bomber incident and just recently, the British Prime Minister came out with a condemnation of Israel over Gaza and urged Israel to lift the siege. Israel has been a long-standing partner of the US so attacking them in such a way is not likely to engender feelings of goodwill.

I dont think this will result in a serious schism, but I do see diplomatic ties between the US and UK becoming quite strained.
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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The US and UK are two different countries with different foreign policies. There are bound to be differences in any alliance, but for now it looks like the UK will continue to be America's staunchest ally.
 

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The UK going after Israel isn't a large break from the US given the US has been having problems with Israel. As for Lockerbie, that happend over two decades ago. That's hardly a sign of cooling relations. From what I've seen the US and UK are as close as ever (especially since I've gotten the impression that Cameron and Obama have much better chemistry than Brown and Obama did).
 

WingsOfDesire

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As for Lockerbie, that happend over two decades ago. That's hardly a sign of cooling relations.
He's referring to the release of the L-Bomber, which might have been one of the single-greatest acts of stupidity in regards to releasing a prisoner at any level.
 

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The Lockerbie bomber is widely not seen as having perpetrated the incident in his home country and quite a nice oil deal may have partially come of it.
 

danarhea

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The US and UK have historically had good diplomatic relations during the last century, especially in the recent years.

But I have to wonder if we aren't looking at a possible slowing down of that relationship. There are serious differences over the Lockerbie bomber incident and just recently, the British Prime Minister came out with a condemnation of Israel over Gaza and urged Israel to lift the siege. Israel has been a long-standing partner of the US so attacking them in such a way is not likely to engender feelings of goodwill.

I dont think this will result in a serious schism, but I do see diplomatic ties between the US and UK becoming quite strained.
Now that we have no more intel for Britain to "sex up", it seems that we are fast becoming strangers. :mrgreen:
 

WingsOfDesire

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The Lockerbie bomber is widely not seen as having perpetrated the incident in his home country and quite a nice oil deal may have partially come of it.
Well I'm sure the families of the hundreds that died will rest a bit easier knowing that at least a nice oil deal may have come out of it.
 

Infinite Chaos

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The UK going after Israel isn't a large break from the US given the US has been having problems with Israel. As for Lockerbie, that happend over two decades ago. That's hardly a sign of cooling relations. From what I've seen the US and UK are as close as ever (especially since I've gotten the impression that Cameron and Obama have much better chemistry than Brown and Obama did).
The UK isn't "going after Israel" in any way, shape or form.

Further, the UK is made up of several different parts - some have their own parliament / government and the Scottish Govt - not the Westminster one, let Al-Megrahi go.

Lastly, Cameron is at last the leader blazing a new trail that I have wished for for a long time. The US doesn't need the UK and we don't need to be the US lapdog, We paid our past debts and dues and will stand by the US if requested and the cause is right - but we shouldn't stand by the US when it is wrong or stands against us as it did recently regarding the Falklands.

Anyway - I thought Israel was the US best friend and ally now?
 

tlmorg02

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I have to disagree that relations between the two nations has cooled. The Lockerbie Bomber release was clearly done for the purposes of securing an oil deal for BP, which I am sure Britain regrets in light over the recent spill and contraversy. The two nations are as they have been, staunch allies and I can forsee no change in that.
 

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Further to what IC has commented i would say the sooner we [UK] realise our 'junior partner' status the better. Perhaps then, we may not over commit in conflicts such as Iraq/Afghanistan and offer a level of assistance in keeping with our stature.

Paul
 

Infinite Chaos

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-- The Lockerbie Bomber release was clearly done for the purposes of securing an oil deal for BP, which I am sure Britain regrets in light --
Al-Megrahi was released by the Scottish Parliament, they stand to gain nothing (unless new information comes out of any inquiry) from any BP dealings in Libya.

I personally felt his release was a mistake but it was a Scottish decision - not a "British" decision.
 

Manc Skipper

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I have to disagree that relations between the two nations has cooled. The Lockerbie Bomber release was clearly done for the purposes of securing an oil deal for BP, which I am sure Britain regrets in light over the recent spill and contraversy. The two nations are as they have been, staunch allies and I can forsee no change in that.
Why would "Britain" regret the decisions of a Scottish government, and a multinational oil company, half of which was previously known as AMOCO, and is one third in American ownership?
 

cpwill

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but we shouldn't stand by the US when it is wrong or stands against us as it did recently regarding the Falklands.
yeah, i thought that was pretty ironic. you people were soooo happy when Bush was gone and Obama elected. :lol:
 

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yeah, i thought that was pretty ironic. you people were soooo happy when Bush was gone and Obama elected. :lol:
:shock: What does that have to do with not standing by the US when we believe it was wrong.

Through Tony Blair the UK developed a ridiculous relationship with the US. The US said jump and the UK said how high. We became involved in two wars which are having a dreadful impact on the security of the world.

This is not how the UK's relationship with the US has been before. We did not fight in Vietnam and when Margaret Thatcher allowed planes over our air space to bomb Libya she was given hell for it in Parliament next day.

The 'positive' relationship which appears to have been formed because of the mutual Christianity between Bush and Blair has not had a 'positive' effect on the world.

Of course in general UK people like US citizens, we have a lot in common and a lot of differences which can also be interesting, but the UK has recently turned itself into a satellite of the US and that has had a negative effect on world security.

So lets keep our friendship as people but reinstate our independence and autonomy as States.
 

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yeah, i thought that was pretty ironic. you people were soooo happy when Bush was gone and Obama elected. :lol:
:shock: What does that have to do with not standing by the US when we believe it was wrong--
It has nothing to do with the thread. Someone simply wanted to bash Obama and used an unrelated thread.
 

danstevens80

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The US and UK have historically had good diplomatic relations during the last century, especially in the recent years.

But I have to wonder if we aren't looking at a possible slowing down of that relationship. There are serious differences over the Lockerbie bomber incident and just recently, the British Prime Minister came out with a condemnation of Israel over Gaza and urged Israel to lift the siege. Israel has been a long-standing partner of the US so attacking them in such a way is not likely to engender feelings of goodwill.

I dont think this will result in a serious schism, but I do see diplomatic ties between the US and UK becoming quite strained.
Give it time. As in most cases, the US and UK just need a common enemy to reinforce good intentions and diplomatic ties.
 

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The US and UK have historically had good diplomatic relations during the last century, especially in the recent years.

But I have to wonder if we aren't looking at a possible slowing down of that relationship. There are serious differences over the Lockerbie bomber incident and just recently, the British Prime Minister came out with a condemnation of Israel over Gaza and urged Israel to lift the siege. Israel has been a long-standing partner of the US so attacking them in such a way is not likely to engender feelings of goodwill.

I dont think this will result in a serious schism, but I do see diplomatic ties between the US and UK becoming quite strained.
The English speaking nations have always been the strongest of allies. What outsiders have never gotten is that when we "bicker" it is more of a family squabble. We are too closely tied. Our sense of freedom and liberty are close. Our entertainment, in terms of film, stage, and music are intertwined. Our foriegn policies are always in line. And with Britain being the far more humane of the colonizers, our values are closely matched. Being the cast outs of European snobbery, the English speaking nations have a sort of club house.

At any rate, the future storm coming in Europe, in regards to Islamic immigration and political and international divisions, will have them all reaching out to the English speaking nations once again.

I'd like to see a trio of global influence coming from a united British, American, and Chinese team.
 
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Lord Tammerlain

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The English speaking nations have always been the strongest of allies. What outsiders have never gotten is that when we "bicker" it is more of a family squabble. We are too closely tied. Our sense of freedom and liberty are close. Our entertainment, in terms of film, stage, and music are intertwined. Our foriegn policies are always in line. And with Britain being the far more humane of the colonizers, our values are closely matched. Being the cast outs of European snobbery, the English speaking nations have a sort of club house.

At any rate, the future storm coming in Europe, in regards to Islamic immigration and political and international divisions, will have them all reaching out to the English speaking nations once again.

I'd like to see a trio of global influence coming from a united British, American, and Chinese team.
The British?

Britain is a bankrupt country with little in the way of manufacturing that has been playing above its actual weight for too long, and will in the future make even more reductions in its overseas power projection. For Britain to continue to do as it has done for the last 20 years would require an actual economy, something like Germany has, but considering the Germans have their economy is due to capital improvements in its economic infrustructure rather then trying to maintain past glory
 

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The British?

Britain is a bankrupt country with little in the way of manufacturing that has been playing above its actual weight for too long, and will in the future make even more reductions in its overseas power projection. For Britain to continue to do as it has done for the last 20 years would require an actual economy, something like Germany has, but considering the Germans have their economy is due to capital improvements in its economic infrustructure rather then trying to maintain past glory
Well, Britain would be in the fold of influence by association and I'd say they've earned it. As for Germany, we'd be fools to ever trust a strong Germany.
 

Red_Dave

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The English speaking nations have always been the strongest of allies. What outsiders have never gotten is that when we "bicker" it is more of a family squabble. We are too closely tied. Our sense of freedom and liberty are close. Our entertainment, in terms of film, stage, and music are intertwined. Our foriegn policies are always in line. And with Britain being the far more humane of the colonizers, our values are closely matched. Being the cast outs of European snobbery, the English speaking nations have a sort of club house.

At any rate, the future storm coming in Europe, in regards to Islamic immigration and political and international divisions, will have them all reaching out to the English speaking nations once again.

I'd like to see a trio of global influence coming from a united British, American, and Chinese team.
Because the belief in Liberty™ that we share with the Chinese govt?
 

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Because the belief in Liberty™ that we share with the Chinese govt?
No. We are past the age of ideology. It's an economic world and with China's continual capitalistic journey, they will eventually have to deal with their society and travel a more Western path to support it. The powers of the future are going to be the U.S. and China. We've gone through one Cold War of idealogy once. China has no interests in dominating the world anymore than Americans do. And the world is too big for a single government to take on the globe's needs and wants as well as the blames for all woes. If capitalistic interests are mutual, there is no reason for another Cold War dividing the world. As it stands, China and the U.S. has already married up their economies and would both suffer if something pointless occurred.
 
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gunner

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Well, Britain would be in the fold of influence by association and I'd say they've earned it. As for Germany, we'd be fools to ever trust a strong Germany.[/QUOTE]

Interesting you still feel that:neutral:

Paul
 

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Interesting you still feel that:neutral:

Paul
Well let's be honest. Germany's Nazi period was hardly the first to display such bad behavior. Their behaviors after the "Scramble for Africa" made even the other European colonizers gasp. Ethnic cleansings and genocides are a European tradition in history. I believe Europeans are destined to be Europeans. Whats the situation today? France's recent ejection of gypsies? The veil in public schools? Germany's growing resenment and hatreds of Muslim Turks? Continually and exponentially growing Islamic immigrant issues and politicial divisions across Europe? The continual unofficial restrictions placed upon media to cater to Islamic sensibilities? Its only a matter of time before Europeans reach within for solutions. And is it fair to state that Europe has a record for behaving badly in a crisis?


People like to think that Europe's past could never happen again. It has never taken much. I can easily see a European nation evicting illegal Islamic immigrants across its borders into another European nation. And eventually other nations begin to refuse further immigrant waves. Police clashing with rioting Muslims in the streets. Militaries get mobolized and moved towards borders to stop the waves of forced migrations. Radicals and extremists use every single event as an excuse to declare whole scale "war" upon European civilians and structures. Politiciains and radicals ramp up the rhetoric. The escallation gets worse. The Middle East is now exporting terrorist organizations and funding them behind closed doors to "defend" the Muslim people.

The only question is what side will America choose to be on this time.
 
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Lord Tammerlain

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No. We are past the age of ideology. It's an economic world and with China's continual capitalistic journey, they will eventually have to deal with their society and travel a more Western path to support it. The powers of the future are going to be the U.S. and China. We've gone through one Cold War of idealogy once. China has no interests in dominating the world anymore than Americans do. And the world is too big for a single government to take on the globe's needs and wants as well as the blames for all woes. If capitalistic interests are mutual, there is no reason for another Cold War dividing the world. As it stands, China and the U.S. has already married up their economies and would both suffer if something pointless occurred.
Well let's be honest. Germany's Nazi period was hardly the first to display such bad behavior. Their behaviors after the "Scramble for Africa" made even the other European colonizers gasp. Ethnic cleansings and genocides are a European tradition in history. I believe Europeans are destined to be Europeans. Whats the situation today? France's recent ejection of gypsies? The veil in public schools? Germany's growing resenment and hatreds of Muslim Turks? Continually and exponentially growing Islamic immigrant issues and politicial divisions across Europe? The continual unofficial restrictions placed upon media to cater to Islamic sensibilities? Its only a matter of time before Europeans reach within for solutions. And is it fair to state that Europe has a record for behaving badly in a crisis?


People like to think that Europe's past could never happen again. It has never taken much. I can easily see a European nation evicting illegal Islamic immigrants across its borders into another European nation. And eventually other nations begin to refuse further immigrant waves. Police clashing with rioting Muslims in the streets. Militaries get mobolized and moved towards borders to stop the waves of forced migrations. Radicals and extremists use every single event as an excuse to declare whole scale "war" upon European civilians and structures. Politiciains and radicals ramp up the rhetoric. The escallation gets worse. The Middle East is now exporting terrorist organizations and funding them behind closed doors to "defend" the Muslim people.

The only question is what side will America choose to be on this time.

So we are past the world of ideology, and one of capitalistic interests for everyone but Germans specifically and europeans in general
 

Lord Tammerlain

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The British past is pretty much as bad as that of Germany. The Boer war, the mass starvations in India, the great potato famine in Ireland etc. Germany's only period that is worse in general is of course the nazi era, other wise I would they they were no where near the worst of empires in the 1800 to early 1900's

Well let's be honest. Germany's Nazi period was hardly the first to display such bad behavior. Their behaviors after the "Scramble for Africa" made even the other European colonizers gasp. Ethnic cleansings and genocides are a European tradition in history. I believe Europeans are destined to be Europeans. Whats the situation today? France's recent ejection of gypsies? The veil in public schools? Germany's growing resenment and hatreds of Muslim Turks? Continually and exponentially growing Islamic immigrant issues and politicial divisions across Europe? The continual unofficial restrictions placed upon media to cater to Islamic sensibilities? Its only a matter of time before Europeans reach within for solutions. And is it fair to state that Europe has a record for behaving badly in a crisis?


People like to think that Europe's past could never happen again. It has never taken much. I can easily see a European nation evicting illegal Islamic immigrants across its borders into another European nation. And eventually other nations begin to refuse further immigrant waves. Police clashing with rioting Muslims in the streets. Militaries get mobolized and moved towards borders to stop the waves of forced migrations. Radicals and extremists use every single event as an excuse to declare whole scale "war" upon European civilians and structures. Politiciains and radicals ramp up the rhetoric. The escallation gets worse. The Middle East is now exporting terrorist organizations and funding them behind closed doors to "defend" the Muslim people.

The only question is what side will America choose to be on this time.
 
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