'Ze' or 'They'? A Guide to Using Gender-Neutral Pronouns

[X Factor]

Everybody start studying up.

'Ze' or 'They'? A Guide to Using Nonbinary, Gender-Neutral Pronouns - CityLab

As if the insulting "cis" thing wasn't bad enough, I'll cuss the living hell out of anyone who uses "zir" in my presence. Ok, I probably wouldn't but, I'm sorry, this is getting ridiculous. Now, I've been informed I really don't have much of a right to object the manufactured 'cis' thing, but seriously, nobody has the right to try to take over my speech.

 

[Carjosse]

I have no problem calling people whatever they want if they want he, she, or they but that is where it stops. I am not going to use some made up word. Thankfully this behavior is mostly confined to Tumblr.

 

[instagramsci]

the manufactured 'cis' thing

Hate to be the one to tell you but all of language is manufactured

 

[X Factor]

Hate to be the one to tell you but all of language is manufactured

Ah, fair point. By manufactured, I meant agenda driven.

 

[instagramsci]

Ah, fair point. By manufactured, I meant agenda driven.

What do you think that agenda is?

 

[digsbe]

If a transsexual person requests me to call them by the pronoun of their choice I'd hope others respect the fact that I'd just like to be called "male" or whatever... not cis or zir or whatever other crazy things out there.

 

[instagramsci]

not cis or zir or whatever other crazy things out there.

It seems like you and X are under the impression that calling these things "crazy" or "ridiculous" are free of an agenda and/or non-ideological

 

[Captain Adverse]

No one better call me "Cis!"

Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose experiences of their own gender agree with the sex they were assigned at birth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

My gender is "male." I have no confusion about this.

I am willing to call people who aren't happy with their gender whatever they choose...but my "gender" is one of two our species demonstrates and I don't need any other special identifier to make someone who is Transgender feel more comfortable about their choice.

 

[X Factor]

What do you think that agenda is?

Retribution, in a sense. If trans people are going to be labeled then by god so will non trans people.

 

[Howler63]

Him/He or Her/She.

That's all there are. The rest is fantasy land bull****.

 

[X Factor]

If a transsexual person requests me to call them by the pronoun of their choice I'd hope others respect the fact that I'd just like to be called "male" or whatever... not cis or zir or whatever other crazy things out there.

I've made this very point but try arguing for your own preferences to be respected. It's like pulling teeth.

 

[instagramsci]

Retribution, in a sense. If trans people are going to be labeled then by god so will non trans people.

So you don't want trans people to be labeled?

 

[digsbe]

I've made this very point but try arguing for your own preferences to be respected. It's like pulling teeth.

Well yeah, because if you ask for the same courtesy you're a bigot.

Honestly I feel like all this language bull**** is a backhanded way to legitimize people's beliefs regarding gender identity. There is no "male" because that somehow implies that "male" is different from "trans male" (which it is) so there is just cis male and trans male to keep things equal.

 

[X Factor]

So you don't want trans people to be labeled?

You're demonstrating exactly what I was saying. My identity is, in no way, wrapped up in my lack of being trans.

 

[Henrin]

How do you pronounce some of those anyway?

 

[Henrin]

Well yeah, because if you ask for the same courtesy you're a bigot.

Honestly I feel like all this language bull**** is a backhanded way to legitimize people's beliefs regarding gender identity. There is no "male" because that somehow implies that "male" is different from "trans male" (which it is) so there is just cis male and trans male to keep things equal.

That's because it is.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

It would be nice to have a singular gender neutral pronoun for English. When I learned Cambodian I found it to be handy. But it isn't really something you can force into a language.

 

[Redress]

Everybody start studying up.

'Ze' or 'They'? A Guide to Using Nonbinary, Gender-Neutral Pronouns - CityLab

As if the insulting "cis" thing wasn't bad enough, I'll cuss the living hell out of anyone who uses "zir" in my presence. Ok, I probably wouldn't but, I'm sorry, this is getting ridiculous. Now, I've been informed I really don't have much of a right to object the manufactured 'cis' thing, but seriously, nobody has the right to try to take over my speech.

This is a classic case of trying desperately to be offended. While you are walling around crying that you might be asked to be polite, the people who deal in simple common sense are, when asked, using pronouns that whoever they are dealing with prefer without any ****ing drama.

And no one is taking away any right from you. You can object, cry, moan, whine, to your hearts content. I know of no one who is saying you cannot. But do not be surprised when you are judged by your actions, just as every other person in the world is.

 

[Henrin]

I see nothing polite about being ordered(and yes when the government permits transsexuals to sue if you don't use their preferred pronoun it is an order) to use incorrect pronouns.

 

[Redress]

I see nothing polite about being ordered(and yes when the government permits transsexuals to sue if you don't use their preferred pronoun it is an order) to use incorrect pronouns.

So you want the government to determine what lawsuits people can file. How very freedom loving of you...:roll:

People do not usually broadcast their hypocrisy, not sure why you revel in it.

 

[X Factor]

This is a classic case of trying desperately to be offended. While you are walling around crying that you might be asked to be polite, the people who deal in simple common sense are, when asked, using pronouns that whoever they are dealing with prefer without any ****ing drama.

And no one is taking away any right from you. You can object, cry, moan, whine, to your hearts content. I know of no one who is saying you cannot. But do not be surprised when you are judged by your actions, just as every other person in the world is.

Nice speech but let's be real, since when has "courtesy" or "politeness" become this compelling argument? It's pretty apparent you don't feel it necessary when it comes to, say, religion. In fact, I've heard courtesy disparaged, like it's what keeps folks from saying what they think or saying what's real. For some reason though, in this context, "courtesy" is what's trotted out like it's just beyond any challenge.

 

[Redress]

Nice speech but let's be real, since when has "courtesy" or "politeness" become this compelling argument? It's pretty apparent you don't feel it necessary when it comes to, say, religion. In fact, I've heard courtesy disparaged, like it's what keeps folks from saying what they think or saying what's real. For some reason though, in this context, "courtesy" is what's trotted out like it's just beyond any challenge.

When I am less than courteous(and I don't really remember doing it much with religion unless some one was trying to force theirs on me), I expect to be judged by that. I do not whine and cry that people are calling me an ass when I act like one. And I don't be rude to random people for no reason. When Robert says he prefers to be Bob, I don't call him Robert and make him out to be a bad guy for asking me to call him Bob.

 

[X Factor]

When I am less than courteous(and I don't really remember doing it much with religion unless some one was trying to force theirs on me), I expect to be judged by that. I do not whine and cry that people are calling me an ass when I act like one. And I don't be rude to random people for no reason. When Robert says he prefers to be Bob, I don't call him Robert and make him out to be a bad guy for asking me to call him Bob.

Well, whatever. I don't know what I've done in this context to be labeled an ass (I have no doubt I will eagerly be told) but I also don't expect a conversation about this between us will yield much of anything good so there's not much point in it.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Everybody start studying up.

'Ze' or 'They'? A Guide to Using Nonbinary, Gender-Neutral Pronouns - CityLab

As if the insulting "cis" thing wasn't bad enough, I'll cuss the living hell out of anyone who uses "zir" in my presence. Ok, I probably wouldn't but, I'm sorry, this is getting ridiculous. Now, I've been informed I really don't have much of a right to object the manufactured 'cis' thing, but seriously, nobody has the right to try to take over my speech.

What are you doing, X?

 

[Fiddytree]

This isn't a tremendous deal, however, X. I'll be interested in using it for academic discourse or when I have the request to do so, but probably not much before. I anticipate little insistence on the use of pronouns over concentration on the acquisition of legal rights, basic human decency, and so on.