• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Young Iraqis Overwhelmingly Consider US Their Enemy Poll Says

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
[FONT=TIActuBeta-ExBold_web]MORE THAN 90 PERCENT[/FONT] of young people in Iraq consider the United States to be an enemy of their country, according to a new poll.
After years spent justifying the war as a “liberation” of the Iraqi people, the survey casts further doubt on the success of that endeavor.


The results of the poll offer an interesting window into long-term perceptions of the Iraq War by Iraqis themselves. Advocates of the 2003 invasion often justified it by claiming post-Saddam Iraq would be an ally of U.S. interests in the region. In a speech leading up to the war, then-Vice President Dick Cheney cited experts who claimed Iraqis would “erupt in joy” over the invasion, predicting it would result in “strong bonds” created between the two countries. But years later, after hundreds of billions of dollars spent and more than a hundred thousand Iraqis dead, the United States is overwhelmingly considered an enemy by young men and women who were children when the war began.


Read more @: Young Iraqis Overwhelmingly Consider US Their Enemy Poll Says

The eruption of joy that never came... Apparently if your country is bombed, invaded and occupied those being bombed and occupied dont like the country doing the bombing and occupying.
 

RetiredUSN

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
29,395
Reaction score
15,532
Location
Norfolk Virginia area.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

RetiredUSN

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
29,395
Reaction score
15,532
Location
Norfolk Virginia area.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
No...they occupied, terrorized, confined, and bombed the colonies after we started revolting.

Japan sorta like us too.......and we kinda blew the crap outta them, then occupied them for a number of years.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
68,767
Reaction score
35,111
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No...they occupied, terrorized, confined, and bombed the colonies after we started revolting.

and again in 1811-1813.

Japan sorta like us too.......and we kinda blew the crap outta them, then occupied them for a number of years.

Isn't there a large, central-European-ish Country where we still have an occupational force? Or am I thinking of that Asian Penninsula place.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
68,767
Reaction score
35,111
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Anyway, as to the OP, yes. Congradulations. Our foreign policy is so feckless that we have successfully convinced every single actor in Iraq that we are working for the opposite side.



Smart Power.jpg

Worst name for a foreign policy. Ever.
 

reinoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
16,824
Reaction score
7,183
Location
Out West
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
We backed al-Maliki who was a wannabe despot until he was forced out. When al-MALIKI showed himself to be a mini-Hussein, we should have given him the boot. We had a legit coalition between Kurds, Sunni, Shiah: everyone. Al-maliki ruined it.

Biden was one of that guy's most vocal supporters and he was Obama's VP for his so called foreign policy experience. This highlights why I no longer regard "experts" with much credibility.

Our blunders and squandered opportunities in IRAQ continue to show why the status quo is dominated by bumbling idiots with one caveat: If their actual goal is to perpetually support the military industrial complex then they've done a marvelous job.
 

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
14,725
Reaction score
6,386
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
No...they occupied, terrorized, confined, and bombed the colonies after we started revolting.

Japan sorta like us too.......and we kinda blew the crap outta them, then occupied them for a number of years.

You mean the rebels did that after they revolted over almost nothing.
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
No...they occupied, terrorized, confined, and bombed the colonies after we started revolting.
We also won and had 200+ years to kiss and make up

Japan sorta like us too.......and we kinda blew the crap outta them, then occupied them for a number of years.
Apples to oranges comparison.
1.)Japan took place during a regular war and encompassed a regular surrender from a state. The War in Iraq was a literal invasion and occupation of a country that was not militarized and served no threat to us.
2.)Japan also retained their native government and government officials were not purged. Iraq we occupied their state, overthrew their government, and essentially gutted every government official in the "de-Baathification" of the country/government.
3.)In Japan we did not put into power a sectarian authoritarian official. In Iraq we put into power a sectarian authoritarian who many saw/see not better and possibly worse than Saddam
4.)In Japan as a result of the Allies occupation a civil war did not break out and a civil war continued once we left Japan. In Iraq a civil war did break out during our occupation and it also continued once we left
5.)In Japan the Allied occupation effectively rebuilt the infrastructure and the Japanese government was able to deliver basic social services to the population as a whole. In Iraq massive fraud broke out during reconstruction of the country and reconstruction essentially did not occur.
6.)In Japan a massive terrorist organization did not form out the allied occupation. In Iraq a massive terrorist organization did form out of the occupation.
7.)
10mu9tk.png

https://books.google.com/books?id=SC4X1muvigYC&pg=PA338#v=onepage&q&f=false
 

Beaudreaux

Preserve Protect Defend
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
18,233
Reaction score
15,861
Location
veni, vidi, volo - now back in NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Read more @: Young Iraqis Overwhelmingly Consider US Their Enemy Poll Says

The eruption of joy that never came... Apparently if your country is bombed, invaded and occupied those being bombed and occupied dont like the country doing the bombing and occupying. [/FONT][/COLOR]

That would be ISIS, not the US. We haven't been there since 18 December 2011, and the number of air strikes on ISIS by the US during the time after that date has been minimal (and ineffective).

The young people of Iraq are no different than the young people of our own country. Many (if not most) young people will believe the propaganda rather than the truth if it fits into their big bully (read US) versus small grassroots uprising (read ISIS) when in fact it's the latter that's killing them by the thousands, not the US.

I can understand why they feel that way. The US left them with a power vacuum after 18 December 2011 that allowed ISIS and their sectarian based government to foment a religious and civil war that has turned their country into a hell on earth resulting in genocidal religious lines being drawn.
 

Thrilla

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
20,295
Reaction score
9,801
Location
Texas, Vegas, Colombia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other

Carjosse

Sit Nomine Digna
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
14,725
Reaction score
6,386
Location
Montreal, QC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
You think that was the reason? Tea, and greed? Surely not?

It was they revolted over a tea tax, the other taxes were not even actually imposed. The parliament which they did have representation in by the way (limited but they still had representation) decided that since the colonies benefited the most form the Seven Years War they should help pay for it. But apparently that is unreasonable.
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
That would be ISIS, not the US. We haven't been there since 18 December 2011, and the number of air strikes on ISIS by the US during the time after that date has been minimal (and ineffective).

The young people of Iraq are no different than the young people of our own country. Many (if not most) young people will believe the propaganda rather than the truth if it fits into their big bully (read US) versus small grassroots uprising (read ISIS) when in fact it's the latter that's killing them by the thousands, not the US.

I can understand why they feel that way. The US left them with a power vacuum after 18 December 2011 that allowed ISIS and their sectarian based government to foment a religious and civil war that has turned their country into a hell on earth resulting in genocidal religious lines being drawn.

At one point you say/seem to be implying that they feel this way because of some propaganda that is lies (not the truth) but then you say you understand why they feel this way because of a power vacuum.

But you also say that its ISIS thats killing them and not the US. This is true, but its also ignoring the recent history that many of these respondents grew up in, that of being invaded and bombed by the US not once but twice, a US enforced sanctions on the country that killed anywhere from 300,000-500,000 children, and an occupation of their country which killed up to 200,000 civilians and also which ISIS grew out of. Im sure that this all has to deal with why Iraqis distrust America so much...
 

coldjoint

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
14,235
Reaction score
1,453
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
43,950
Reaction score
12,024
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Read more @: Young Iraqis Overwhelmingly Consider US Their Enemy Poll Says

The eruption of joy that never came... Apparently if your country is bombed, invaded and occupied those being bombed and occupied dont like the country doing the bombing and occupying. [/FONT][/COLOR]

At one point you say/seem to be implying that they feel this way because of some propaganda that is lies (not the truth) but then you say you understand why they feel this way because of a power vacuum.

But you also say that its ISIS thats killing them and not the US. This is true, but its also ignoring the recent history that many of these respondents grew up in, that of being invaded and bombed by the US not once but twice, a US enforced sanctions on the country that killed anywhere from 300,000-500,000 children, and an occupation of their country which killed up to 200,000 civilians and also which ISIS grew out of. Im sure that this all has to deal with why Iraqis distrust America so much...

That's because they were too young, mostly, to remember much, if anything, about Saddam.....like young people anywhere, they have a strong streak of stubbornness mixed with stupidity. And I'm saying this as a teenager myself
 

WCH

Believer
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
30,953
Reaction score
9,018
Location
The Lone Star State.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
and again in 1811-1813.



Isn't there a large, central-European-ish Country where we still have an occupational force? Or am I thinking of that Asian Penninsula place.

We still have lots of military personnel in Japan but, not what you would call an occupation force.
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
If they hate us why do we let them come here? Does it make any sense to import enemies?



Holding a country as a geopolitical enemy does not mean citizens of said country equate to citizens engaging in hostile action
 

Beaudreaux

Preserve Protect Defend
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
18,233
Reaction score
15,861
Location
veni, vidi, volo - now back in NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It was they revolted over a tea tax, the other taxes were not even actually imposed. The parliament which they did have representation in by the way (limited but they still had representation) decided that since the colonies benefited the most form the Seven Years War they should help pay for it. But apparently that is unreasonable.

Since explaining the numerous ways that the statement above is lacking in depth and intelligence would further derail this thread, I will simply remove myself from this part of the conversation with this one last statement: Study history before making such statements.
 

WCH

Believer
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
30,953
Reaction score
9,018
Location
The Lone Star State.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Which Muslims don't hate us is the question?
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
That's because they were too young, mostly, to remember much, if anything, about Saddam.....like young people anywhere, they have a strong streak of stubbornness mixed with stupidity. And I'm saying this as a teenager myself

Its a little naive to play off these findings as youths just being stupid.
 
Top Bottom