You didn’t choose that, or did you?

[Hicup]

And don't forget the ever popular, "jerk the Turk"..


Tim-

 

[Moot]

What about little boys who are effeminate and more comfortable playing with dolls and wearing dresses and little girls who are more masculine and comfortable wearing jeans and playing sports? I don't think children chose to be Gay, I really do believe they are born that way and if you open your eyes you can see it in the child sometimes even before they know it themselves. Some of the most heartbreaking stories I've ever heard are from Gays either trying to be or forced to be something they never really felt they were inside.

What about masculine women and effeminate men? Do people really chose to be ostracized as young adults just coming into puberty by their peers for being Gay? Statistics show that more suicides are committed by homosexual teens than any other group of people. Does that sound like they made a choice to be attracted to their own sex? Or were they born Gay and found peer and societal rejection too painful?

No, I think homosexuality depends more on the sexuality of ones own self than it does on who one is attracted to. But....BUT....that is not to say that heterosexuals can't be attracted to or choose to have sex or even relationships with someone of their own sex for a myriad of reasons because they DO!!!!

 

[Superfly]

Moot - I always thought this so weird -- never could figure it out, but when I went to middle school, there was an entire family that were like that. Both boys were very effeminate and both girls were like overly masculine. That one was always a head scratcher.

 

[wolv67]

Well, why dont you conduct an experiment and answer your own question. If being gay is a choice, then you can choose to do it. Tomorrow morning when you wake up, choose to start finding the male body sexually attractive. Rub one out to a male model in an underwear ad and let us know how that goes.

Or he could just ask...The answer is no, it's not a conscious choice, and it's really not a "big debate" anymore.

 

[comedy4all]

What about little boys who are effeminate and more comfortable playing with dolls and wearing dresses and little girls who are more masculine and comfortable wearing jeans and playing sports? I don't think children chose to be Gay, I really do believe they are born that way and if you open your eyes you can see it in the child sometimes even before they know it themselves. Some of the most heartbreaking stories I've ever heard are from Gays either trying to be or forced to be something they never really felt they were inside.

What about masculine women and effeminate men? Do people really chose to be ostracized as young adults just coming into puberty by their peers for being Gay? Statistics show that more suicides are committed by homosexual teens than any other group of people. Does that sound like they made a choice to be attracted to their own sex? Or were they born Gay and found peer and societal rejection too painful?

No, I think homosexuality depends more on the sexuality of ones own self than it does on who one is attracted to. But....BUT....that is not to say that heterosexuals can't be attracted to or choose to have sex or even relationships with someone of their own sex for a myriad of reasons because they DO!!!!

“What about little boys who are effeminate and more comfortable playing with dolls and wearing dresses and little girls who are more masculine and comfortable wearing jeans and playing sports?”
At this point in their lives these children have nothing to do with sex. Why would you want to force a sexual identity onto them based on the toys they like to play with or the things they like to do. (I played with dolls, G.I. Joe and Barbie) the only reason to assume that they have any sexual identity at this point in their lives is to satisfy your own preconceived notions. If a child is thinking about sex than some adult at one point or another introduced them to it.
One of the things I have hated is the PHRASE “I WAS BORN THIS WAY” children under puberty are not thinking about sexual organs, let alone being attracted to them. It may be who you are, but when you are five you are not having sexual desires. My son is three years old and has just figured out that he can take the poop out of his diaper and smear it on things; there are no sexual thoughts attached to my three year old smearing poop.
Leave children out of a discussion of sex!

“Do people really chose to be ostracized as young adults just coming into puberty by their peers for being Gay?”
I was ostracized as young adults just coming into puberty by my peers. I had glasses, my father was a pastor so we didn’t have new cloths we had hand-me-downs, I also was a natural pacifist (not that I hate violence just I didn’t want to hurt anyone) I was what you would call a geek. I was made fun of (ridiculed), beat on, locked in my own locker, and chased down the street with the intent to beat the tar out of me. I didn’t choose that. Gay kids are not the only ones that are picked on. Bullies will be bullies they don’t just look for gay kids.
I call this childhood; you survive it and learn from it.

“Statistics show that more suicides are committed by homosexual teens than any other group of people. Does that sound like they made a choice to be attracted to their own sex? Or were they born Gay and found peer and societal rejection too painful?”
As I stated in the previous paragraph; gays are not the only people that are given a hard road to travel. I also contemplated suicide, I got over it. Suicide is a choice that is made by the person that commits it. You cannot blame others for the decision that is made by one person.
Let me put this as bluntly as I can as not to be misunderstood.

Suicide is for life’s quitters. We should not feel sorry for them, they don’t need it. they are dead.

 

[lizzie]

Moot - I always thought this so weird -- never could figure it out, but when I went to middle school, there was an entire family that were like that. Both boys were very effeminate and both girls were like overly masculine. That one was always a head scratcher.

Overly domineering mother?

 

[Superfly]

Overly domineering mother?

:lol: Dunno, always wondered though!

 

[Moot]

“What about little boys who are effeminate and more comfortable playing with dolls and wearing dresses and little girls who are more masculine and comfortable wearing jeans and playing sports?”
At this point in their lives these children have nothing to do with sex. Why would you want to force a sexual identity onto them based on the toys they like to play with or the things they like to do. (I played with dolls, G.I. Joe and Barbie) the only reason to assume that they have any sexual identity at this point in their lives is to satisfy your own preconceived notions. If a child is thinking about sex than some adult at one point or another introduced them to it.

AHEM, you started this thread that homosexuality was a choice based on your biased, preconcieved, limited knowledge that it is merely a sex act. But I am here to argue that it is not a choice and that most homosexuals were born that way. So no, I will not leave children out of the discussion because to do so would ignore the premise of the arguement that Gays are born that way. Why don't you leave the choice to have sex out of the discussion, instead?

Most parents do not want their children to be homosexual and any signs that they might be, the parent will go great lengths to correct that behaviour. It has little to do with the actual primitive act of sex, but rather the psycological and even societal stereotype aspect of sexual identity and what makes a boy a boy and a girl a girl. So why don't you get your little head out of the gutter and try to understand that there is more to human sexuality than just having SEX.

One of the things I have hated is the PHRASE “I WAS BORN THIS WAY” children under puberty are not thinking about sexual organs, let alone being attracted to them. It may be who you are, but when you are five you are not having sexual desires. My son is three years old and has just figured out that he can take the poop out of his diaper and smear it on things; there are no sexual thoughts attached to my three year old smearing poop. Leave children out of a discussion of sex!

Again, being born homosexual has little do with the act of having sex and more to do with sexual identity of the individual. So if you can't handle this discussion on higher level of what it means to be homosexual, instead of just focusing the lowly primal act of having sex, then perhaps you shouldn't have brought it up.

“Do people really chose to be ostracized as young adults just coming into puberty by their peers for being Gay?”
I was ostracized as young adults just coming into puberty by my peers. I had glasses, my father was a pastor so we didn’t have new cloths we had hand-me-downs, I also was a natural pacifist (not that I hate violence just I didn’t want to hurt anyone) I was what you would call a geek. I was made fun of (ridiculed), beat on, locked in my own locker, and chased down the street with the intent to beat the tar out of me. I didn’t choose that. Gay kids are not the only ones that are picked on. Bullies will be bullies they don’t just look for gay kids.
I call this childhood; you survive it and learn from it.

Oh, so this discussion is really about you and your sexuality, it that it? Um, just because something it isn't true for you, doesn't mean or prove it isn't true for others and if you think otherwise then you are living in a fallacy. For example, Comedy4all isn't Gay, therefore Gays don't exist. Or Comedy4all didn't experience sexual harrasment as youth, therefore no one else did either.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" - Carl Sagan

“Statistics show that more suicides are committed by homosexual teens than any other group of people. Does that sound like they made a choice to be attracted to their own sex? Or were they born Gay and found peer and societal rejection too painful?”
As I stated in the previous paragraph; gays are not the only people that are given a hard road to travel. I also contemplated suicide, I got over it. Suicide is a choice that is made by the person that commits it. You cannot blame others for the decision that is made by one person.
Let me put this as bluntly as I can as not to be misunderstood.

Suicide is for life’s quitters. We should not feel sorry for them, they don’t need it. they are dead.

Then let me be blunt, there's a whole world out there that doesn't know that you exist, so if they don't know about you, then do you really exist? Why don't you to try learn a little empathy and then maybe you will.

 

[comedy4all]

AHEM, you started this thread that homosexuality was a choice based on your biased, preconcieved, limited knowledge that it is merely a sex act. But I am here to argue that it is not a choice and that most homosexuals were born that way. So no, I will not leave children out of the discussion because to do so would ignore the premise of the arguement that Gays are born that way. Why don't you leave the choice to have sex out of the discussion, instead?

Most parents do not want their children to be homosexual and any signs that they might be, the parent will go great lengths to correct that behaviour. It has little to do with the actual primitive act of sex, but rather the psycological and even societal stereotype aspect of sexual identity and what makes a boy a boy and a girl a girl. So why don't you get your little head out of the gutter and try to understand that there is more to human sexuality than just having SEX.


Again, being born homosexual has little do with the act of having sex and more to do with sexual identity of the individual. So if you can't handle this discussion on higher level of what it means to be homosexual, instead of just focusing the lowly primal act of having sex, then perhaps you shouldn't have brought it up.




Oh, so this discussion is really about you and your sexuality, it that it? Um, just because something it isn't true for you, doesn't mean or prove it isn't true for others and if you think otherwise then you are living in a fallacy. For example, Comedy4all isn't Gay, therefore Gays don't exist. Or Comedy4all didn't experience sexual harrasment as youth, therefore no one else did either.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" - Carl Sagan


Then let me be blunt, there's a whole world out there that doesn't know that you exist, so if they don't know about you, then do you really exist? Why don't you to try learn a little empathy and then maybe you will.

I have stated that the act of homosexual sex is a choice. I said nothing of being gay.

To imply that children have a SEXual identity is to imply that they know of SEX (the act) and have SEXual desires. Are you saying that children have SEXual desires? That line of thought leads to pedophilia!
Children do not have SEXual identities!

The point about being ostracized had nothing to do with sex. That’s the point. People are ostracized for many reasons. To say that it is harder for a gay kid to deal with it means that they are somehow less able to deal with stress because they are gay. You may group people into categories, but I believe that people are individuals.

I believe that people cannot be put into small groups as to define them. People are individuals. One gay man is not the same as another gay man; the same goes for all of those categories that people like you like to place others in (straight, white, black, Christian, Jewish, and so no). To have SEX is a choice. To commit suicide is a choice. To move past the ridicule of others and go on with your life is a choice. I don’t know whether or not being gay is a choice, I never argued the point in either direction. I stated that the SEX was a choice.
It was you that decided that I was wrong based on your “biased, preconceived, limited knowledge”.

First you stated that children have SEXual desires (which is an argument made quite often by people that want children to have SEXual desires). Than you went off the deep end to state “so this discussion is really about you and your sexuality” when I was touching on the subject of being ostracized.

Deflection and filibustering is not a cogent response. “So if you can't handle this discussion on higher level” than admit it, and move on.

 

[lizzie]

:lol: Dunno, always wondered though!

It wouldn't surprise me. :lol:

 

[Aunt Spiker]

I will admit this up front that I am posting this just to stir up some pudding. Bear with me though I have a cogent point to make.

Their is a big debate over whether being homosexual is something that you are born into or if it is something that you choose.
I have no way of knowing if being gay is a choice or not as I am not gay. Although being homosexual IS a choice. Let me explain.
Homosexuality is an action. Let’s take a hypothetical gay guy; this man loves the sight of the male form, it gets him sexually aroused. At this point he is not a homosexual; he is for lack of a better word gay. Once this man chooses to engage in consensual sex with another man than at that point he has become a homosexual. The man had to choose to commit the act of homosexuality. When a man is raped by another man you cannot call the man that was raped a homosexual because he did not voluntarily engage in the homosexual act.

So to sum up; you can be as gay as Liberace, but you must choose to be a homosexual.

Wow - you really think engaging in the sexual act is what *makes* you something?

It's all in the mind/heart - not the body.

I didn't have to have sex in order to know I was straight. . .sex is following THROUGH with your natural-status . . . it's not an aside that happens separately.

 

[Moot]

I have stated that the act of homosexual sex is a choice. I said nothing of being gay.

Actually you did....

Their is a big debate over whether being homosexual is something that you are born into or if it is something that you choose. I have no way of knowing if being gay is a choice or not as I am not gay. Although being homosexual IS a choice.

This is the definition of Gay...

gay   /geɪ/ Show Spelled[gey] adjective gay·er, gay·est,
1. homosexual.

Gay | Define Gay at Dictionary.com

Or did you think Gay just meant "joyful" and "happy?" lol

To imply that children have a SEXual identity is to imply that they know of SEX (the act) and have SEXual desires. Are you saying that children have SEXual desires? That line of thought leads to pedophilia!
Children do not have SEXual identities!

That line of reasoning is based on nothing but lies, misinformation, ignorance or in your case naivety because children do have sexual identifies and it has nothing to do with the act of sex or sexual desire or leading to pedophilia. Children start identifying themselves as a boy or girl by the time they are two or three years old and it can be observed in their natural choice of interests and play.

The point about being ostracized had nothing to do with sex. That’s the point. People are ostracized for many reasons. To say that it is harder for a gay kid to deal with it means that they are somehow less able to deal with stress because they are gay. You may group people into categories, but I believe that people are individuals.

You are the one who lumped everyone into your category of how to deal with "it." Either they do it your way or they fail or it doesn't exist because you didn't experience it.

I believe that people cannot be put into small groups as to define them. People are individuals. One gay man is not the same as another gay man; the same goes for all of those categories that people like you like to place others in (straight, white, black, Christian, Jewish, and so no).

It's not a question of "like" it is a question of fact. Almost everything including people can and are categorized into distinct groups for their most obvious and observable reasons...ie: dogs are not cats, flowers are not trees, Christians are not Jews, white is not black, heterosexuals are not homosexuals, etc. Not sure what categorizing people has to do with the discussion except to deflect the topic from choosing to be homosexual into a topic about the Gay community perhaps. Is that where you're trying to go with this?

To have SEX is a choice. To commit suicide is a choice. To move past the ridicule of others and go on with your life is a choice. I don’t know whether or not being gay is a choice, I never argued the point in either direction. I stated that the SEX was a choice.

Yes, it's obvious that you don't know whether it is a choice to be Gay or not because you don't even know that being Gay and being homosexual are the same thing. It's not what they do that makes a person Gay/homosexual, it's what they are by their very nature. Having sex once or twice with someone of the same sex does not automatically make a person a homosexual. That's ludicrous.

It was you that decided that I was wrong based on your “biased, preconceived, limited knowledge”.

And I stand by it.

First you stated that children have SEXual desires (which is an argument made quite often by people that want children to have SEXual desires). Than you went off the deep end to state “so this discussion is really about you and your sexuality” when I was touching on the subject of being ostracized.

No, I don't think I said anything about sexual desire or children "having sex" or pedophilia, that is your straw man argument, not mine. My argument is about the sexual identity of the individual, no sex acts necessary. Individuals are something you claim to believe in but fail to understand that not all individuals fit into the mold of being a boy or a girl.

Deflection and filibustering is not a cogent response. “So if you can't handle this discussion on higher level” than admit it, and move on.

Well, if you just wanted to talk about SEX acts, then why didn't just say so? Because you don't need to be a homosexual to choose to have sex and choosing to have sex with someone of the same sex does not automatically make you a homosexual. There are plenty of heterosexual men in prison that can tell you that.

 

[Omgitsme]

I have stated that the act of homosexual sex is a choice. I said nothing of being gay.

To imply that children have a SEXual identity is to imply that they know of SEX (the act) and have SEXual desires. Are you saying that children have SEXual desires? That line of thought leads to pedophilia!
Children do not have SEXual identities!

The point about being ostracized had nothing to do with sex. That’s the point. People are ostracized for many reasons. To say that it is harder for a gay kid to deal with it means that they are somehow less able to deal with stress because they are gay. You may group people into categories, but I believe that people are individuals.

I believe that people cannot be put into small groups as to define them. People are individuals. One gay man is not the same as another gay man; the same goes for all of those categories that people like you like to place others in (straight, white, black, Christian, Jewish, and so no). To have SEX is a choice. To commit suicide is a choice. To move past the ridicule of others and go on with your life is a choice. I don’t know whether or not being gay is a choice, I never argued the point in either direction. I stated that the SEX was a choice.
It was you that decided that I was wrong based on your “biased, preconceived, limited knowledge”.

First you stated that children have SEXual desires (which is an argument made quite often by people that want children to have SEXual desires). Than you went off the deep end to state “so this discussion is really about you and your sexuality” when I was touching on the subject of being ostracized.

Deflection and filibustering is not a cogent response. “So if you can't handle this discussion on higher level” than admit it, and move on.

I dont think anyone is stating that kids have sexual desires. When people use the phrase I was born gay they mean that they are genetically or biologically predisposed to being attracted to the same sex once they start having sexual desires.

Its not that LGBT people are less capable of dealing with stress or anything like that. Its that they normally have more stress in their lives then other groups. For example when you come out to your family and friends you run the risk of having them decide that they dont want anything to do with you anymore. Or having to hear anti gay slurs at work constantly while still living in the closet.

 

[Omgitsme]

That line of reasoning is based on nothing but lies, misinformation, ignorance or in your case naivety because children do have sexual identifies and it has nothing to do with the act of sex or sexual desire or leading to pedophilia. Children start identifying themselves as a boy or girl by the time they are two or three years old and it can be observed in their natural choice of interests and play.

I dont think he was talking about gender identity when he said sexual identity. From what I gather he means children dont really have a sexual orientation yet.

 

[Moot]

I dont think he was talking about gender identity when he said sexual identity. From what I gather he means children dont really have a sexual orientation yet.

I don't think he knows what he means since he doesn't know that Gays are homosexuals. Because if he doesn't know or understand that then he is far from understanding anything about sexual identity which is a persons conception of themselves as opposed to sexual orientation which is a behaviour or attraction to the same sex. I wasn't talking about the latter but I suppose I should have least given him the chance to acknowledge that Gays and homosexuals are one and the same before confusing him with sexual identity and sexual orientation. But thank you for your input and helping to clarify things a bit. It just baffles me why people make threads or form opinions without doing a little homework before hand.

 

[CriticalThought]

So you agree.
Unless I’m reading “Gay-Straight: Sexual attractions you did not choose. Homosexual-Heterosexual: the sexual behavior you choose based on your sexual attractions” wrong.

I'm not really sure how that differs from what anyone else says. Very few people deny that sexual attractions are not a choice and sexual behavior is a choice. Where they differ is on whether or not people have the power to change their sexual attractions.

The way you name them is entirely your own though. Most people will not recognize a difference between "straight-heterosexual" or "gay-homosexual" as you are using those terms.

 

[comedy4all]

Wow - you really think engaging in the sexual act is what *makes* you something?

It's all in the mind/heart - not the body.

I didn't have to have sex in order to know I was straight. . .sex is following THROUGH with your natural-status . . . it's not an aside that happens separately.

“Sex is following THROUGH with your natural-status”

So you don’t choose to have sex? Are you saying that it is nature forcing you to have sex and you have no choice in the matter? If so, than nature should go to jail for raping all of us.

 

[comedy4all]

I'm not really sure how that differs from what anyone else says. Very few people deny that sexual attractions are not a choice and sexual behavior is a choice. Where they differ is on whether or not people have the power to change their sexual attractions.

The way you name them is entirely your own though. Most people will not recognize a difference between "straight-heterosexual" or "gay-homosexual" as you are using those terms.

Unfortunately you have uncovered the truth of the matter. As I stated in the first place, I posted this to sir some pudding. It amuses me that a statement that says what the consensus is but poses it as if it is questioning the consensus will be met with so much predisposed animosity and will be seen to be attacking the consensus. I simply said that sex (the act) is a choice, and all of the sudden I am attacking the gay community.
It has accomplished its goal. The goal being to just give people that like to debate on this subject a reason to.

 

[comedy4all]

I dont think he was talking about gender identity when he said sexual identity. From what I gather he means children dont really have a sexual orientation yet.

Exactly! But she has drawn conclusions about me that no one will be able to change in her mind.

 

[comedy4all]

Actually you did....

This is the definition of Gay...

Or did you think Gay just meant "joyful" and "happy?" lol


That line of reasoning is based on nothing but lies, misinformation, ignorance or in your case naivety because children do have sexual identifies and it has nothing to do with the act of sex or sexual desire or leading to pedophilia. Children start identifying themselves as a boy or girl by the time they are two or three years old and it can be observed in their natural choice of interests and play.

You are the one who lumped everyone into your category of how to deal with "it." Either they do it your way or they fail or it doesn't exist because you didn't experience it.


It's not a question of "like" it is a question of fact. Almost everything including people can and are categorized into distinct groups for their most obvious and observable reasons...ie: dogs are not cats, flowers are not trees, Christians are not Jews, white is not black, heterosexuals are not homosexuals, etc. Not sure what categorizing people has to do with the discussion except to deflect the topic from choosing to be homosexual into a topic about the Gay community perhaps. Is that where you're trying to go with this?


Yes, it's obvious that you don't know whether it is a choice to be Gay or not because you don't even know that being Gay and being homosexual are the same thing. It's not what they do that makes a person Gay/homosexual, it's what they are by their very nature. Having sex once or twice with someone of the same sex does not automatically make a person a homosexual. That's ludicrous.

And I stand by it.


No, I don't think I said anything about sexual desire or children "having sex" or pedophilia, that is your straw man argument, not mine. My argument is about the sexual identity of the individual, no sex acts necessary. Individuals are something you claim to believe in but fail to understand that not all individuals fit into the mold of being a boy or a girl.

Well, if you just wanted to talk about SEX acts, then why didn't just say so? Because you don't need to be a homosexual to choose to have sex and choosing to have sex with someone of the same sex does not automatically make you a homosexual. There are plenty of heterosexual men in prison that can tell you that.

Do you have sex?

Do you have a choice in the matter of having sex?
• If yes; then you are choosing to participate in heterosexuality/homosexuality.
• If no; then who does make the decision for you?

If you are raped by someone of your same gender does that make you (for the lack of a better word) gay?
• If yes; then there are a lot of people out there that don’t know that they are now gay.
• If no; then your choice in the matter of whether or not to have sex holds bearing on your sexual identity.

 

[comedy4all]

I dont think anyone is stating that kids have sexual desires. When people use the phrase I was born gay they mean that they are genetically or biologically predisposed to being attracted to the same sex once they start having sexual desires.

Its not that LGBT people are less capable of dealing with stress or anything like that. Its that they normally have more stress in their lives then other groups. For example when you come out to your family and friends you run the risk of having them decide that they dont want anything to do with you anymore. Or having to hear anti gay slurs at work constantly while still living in the closet.

“It’s that they normally have more stress in their lives than other groups”

I live under the belief that all people have their own trials and tribulations. I don’t think that LGBT people do live with any more or less stress than anyone else. We all have different things that stress us for LGBT people their sexuality may be the most prevalent or not, it depends on the individual. People are not groups they are individuals.

 

[Omgitsme]

“It’s that they normally have more stress in their lives than other groups”

I live under the belief that all people have their own trials and tribulations. I don’t think that LGBT people do live with any more or less stress than anyone else. We all have different things that stress us for LGBT people their sexuality may be the most prevalent or not, it depends on the individual. People are not groups they are individuals.

The thing is LGBT people have/do all the normal things that cause stress like jobs, relationships, money ect with the added stress of being LGBT. There is a reason why the suicide rate for LGBT people is so high.

 

[Moot]

Do you have sex?

Do you have a choice in the matter of having sex?
• If yes; then you are choosing to participate in heterosexuality/homosexuality.
• If no; then who does make the decision for you?

If you are raped by someone of your same gender does that make you (for the lack of a better word) gay?
• If yes; then there are a lot of people out there that don’t know that they are now gay.
• If no; then your choice in the matter of whether or not to have sex holds bearing on your sexual identity.

I'm sorry but I am difficulty following your line of reasoning.

 

[comedy4all]

I'm sorry but I am difficulty following your line of reasoning.

Does that mean that you are following my line of reasoning just with some difficulty?

Or did you mean to put, I am having difficulty following your line of reasoning?

 

[laurcunningham]

I will admit this up front that I am posting this just to stir up some pudding. Bear with me though I have a cogent point to make. Their is a big debate over whether being homosexual is something that you are born into or if it is something that you choose. I have no way of knowing if being gay is a choice or not as I am not gay. Although being homosexual IS a choice. Let me explain. Homosexuality is an action. Let’s take a hypothetical gay guy; this man loves the sight of the male form, it gets him sexually aroused. At this point he is not a homosexual; he is for lack of a better word gay. Once this man chooses to engage in consensual sex with another man than at that point he has become a homosexual. The man had to choose to commit the act of homosexuality. When a man is raped by another man you cannot call the man that was raped a homosexual because he did not voluntarily engage in the homosexual act. So to sum up; you can be as gay as Liberace, but you must choose to be a homosexual.

I see where you were going with that, but in the same light you then have to state that being heterosexual is also in fact a choice. Let's say, hypothetically, that you have a teenage boy; this teenage boy loves the sight of the female form, it gets him sexually aroused. At this point he is not heterosexual; he is for lack of a better statement a sexually interested young man. Once this young man chooses to engage in consensual sex with another woman than at that point he has become a heterosexual. This young man had to choose to commit the act of heterosexuality. If you are not sexually attracted to the same sex, it's because it's engrained into your DNA as your cells develop during your mother's pregnancy. In the same regard it's in the DNA of a homosexual person, not something they randomly choose to become sometime in their life.

Yes it does apply equally to heterosexuals. This is an exercise in semantics. And I am always up to some antics.

Stirrin' up that puddin'.

i disagree with your line of reasoning. i discovered that i was heterosexual somewhere around four years old when i fell for a girl at the school. i didn't engage in sexual intercourse until age 19. i can assure you that i was very heterosexual before age 19. a sex act does not determine hetero or homosexuality.

Very true, because people are who they are, they don't "choose to be" hated by nosy, religious people.

I would agree with you that gay is an attraction that helps define your sexuality. Although homosexuality is defined by the choice to engage in homosexual sex. A choice. A man that gets paid to have homosexual sex in a porn movie is a homosexual. He may not be gay but he is homosexual because he voluntarily engaged in homosexual sex.

Soo... is a homosexual man that is paid to sleep with a woman in a porno in fact now a heterosexual man? It's like a math equation. If you can't track the problem backwards to it's original source correctly, then somewhere the logic is incorrect. I understand your line of thinking there, but I think you're splitting hairs for the sake of argument. Personally.