WSJ debunks O-3 Bobulinski

[OscarLevant]

There's a lot of meat in that "nothingburger".

I find it telling that you imply that a "new Congress and Justice Department" is the solution. You think they'll just make this scandal go away and that's alright with you.

You don't give a shit about scandal, your president is a scandal machine the likes of which America has never seen and you don't give a damn.

Republicans are such hypocrites.

WSJ debunks O-3 Bobulinski

What your argument appears to be is that even if Joe Biden is guilty of using his VP position to enrich his family as well as himself it pales in comparison to the abuse of office that Trump is guilty of. Comparing a murder by gun to a murder by knife still makes it a crime of murder. Biden...

debatepolitics.com

 

[skeptic llc]

The most cynical among us would be thinking of it in the "which dodgy candidate is the better choice?" perspective.

I think that's the goal -- when one candidate clearly has a slimy ethics record, he needs to put out enough noise about the other one being corrupt to make it so undecided voters throw up their hands and say "They're all corrupt" (instead of just saying "Trump is corrupt.").

 

[Slavister]

As I said in another thread, if it's all true, then here are my problems with both the 2015 and 2017 emails:

1. Joe Biden outright lied on stage last week speaking to millions of us when he said "I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life." as there's a big difference between that statement and saying "I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life ... even though my son and I tried but the deal fell through."
   
   
2. Joe Biden, after inserting himself into the decision on who should lead a legal corruption case in a foreign country where the target of that investigation was paying his son $50k/month, then met, at his son's request, with a senior executive working at a company owned by that same target.
   
   
3. Hunter Biden paying Joe's bills with money 'earned' from influence peddling.

I understand and agree that all this would be an issue in the alternative-facts universe where all this were true. But even in that universe, Trump is 100 times worse with MANY MANY MANY more cases like this directly peddling his influence at much larger scales and with no regard whatsoever to US interests.

Consider this - US officials, Obama, European Union, IMF, they ALL wanted Shokin to be fired. ALL of them. Biden was aligned with everyone in getting him fired. Say he indeed got some money on a side - at least he would have done it in concert with US interests in that universe. Trump on the other hand is destroying relationships with our allies while clearly appealing to dictators, oil-rich nations, etc. (and yes, EVEN Chinese at various points in his administration).

The scope and direction of Trump corruption is immeasurably worse even in that made up world that they are trying to sell you in the last few weeks of the election ala Clinton-emails. If I had to choose between a small corruption where the person is at least AFRAID of being corrupt and at least is doing it with our interests in heart vs a guy doing a lot more corruption openly mostly with our enemies and against US interests, it's still a VERY EASY choice.

In any case, I don't believe we live in that universe anyway. And for reasons above, it does not even matter at this point.

 

[OpportunityCost]

If there were, they were buried in editorials.

maybe you should post more honestly.

The dishonesty is all in your corner, there are multiple sources given to you, both editorial and factual with tons more embedded links allowing you to draw the conclusions I did. Maybe you should do more critical thinking and less trolling.

 

[NatMorton]

I understand and agree that all this would be an issue in the alternative-facts universe where all this were true. But even in that universe, Trump is 100 times worse with MANY MANY MANY more cases like this directly peddling his influence at much larger scales and with no regard whatsoever to US interests.

Consider this - US officials, Obama, European Union, IMF, they ALL wanted Shokin to be fired. ALL of them. Biden was aligned with everyone in getting him fired. Say he indeed got some money on a side - at least he would have done it in concert with US interests in that universe. Trump on the other hand is destroying relationships with our allies while clearly appealing to dictators, oil-rich nations, etc. (and yes, EVEN Chinese at various points in his administration).

The scope and direction of Trump corruption is immeasurably worse even in that made up world that they are trying to sell you in the last few weeks of the election ala Clinton-emails. If I had to choose between a small corruption where the person is at least AFRAID of being corrupt and at least is doing it with our interests in heart vs a guy doing a lot more corruption openly mostly with our enemies and against US interests, it's still a VERY EASY choice.

In any case, I don't believe we live in that universe anyway. And for reasons above, it does not even matter at this point.

I think you've hit on the reason for the bias against this story in most of the mainstream media. An "alternative facts universe" is not needed to make sense of the evidence here. Anything like an objective assessment would lead one to say "this is just a bit too fishy; more investigation is needed." But because there's such a deep seated hatred of Trump, especially in the newsrooms across the country, journalists who are meant to be objective and look for fire when they see smoke are turning a blind eye because, as you say, the other guy is so much worse. They've made it their mission not to care if Biden's has been using his office to enrich himself. Trump must be defeated.

A sad state of affairs, IMO.

 

[Slavister]

I think you've hit on the reason for the bias against this story in most of the mainstream media. An "alternative facts universe" is not needed to make sense of the evidence here. Anything like an objective assessment would lead one to say "this is just a bit too fishy; more investigation is needed." But because there's such a deep seated hatred of Trump, especially in the newsrooms across the country, journalists who are meant to be objective and look for fire when they see smoke are turning a blind eye because, as you say, the other guy is so much worse. They've made it their mission not to care if Biden's has been using his office to enrich himself. Trump must be defeated.

A sad state of affairs, IMO.

1. There is much more fishiness in how the story came about than the story itself and thus biasing millions of voters on the 11th hour with what is likely is a nothingburger just does not make sense. This is the same reason FBI has guidelines NOT to announce any investigations into politicians before elections - the one Comey broke in 2016 and handed victory to Trump.

2. Like I said, Trump is so much worse that Biden even if insinuations of the story were true, that it should not even matter - this is less about hatred and more about the 2 choices.

P.S. What was Joe presumably selling in 2017 to this company? Access to Trump? He was a private citizen at the time. (and no, there is no proof Joe got anything out of this or was even involved)

 

[NatMorton]

1. There is much more fishiness in how the story came about than the story itself and thus biasing millions of voters on the 11th hour with what is likely is a nothingburger just does not make sense. This is the same reason FBI has guidelines NOT to announce any investigations into politicians before elections - the one Comey broke in 2016 and handed victory to Trump.

2. Like I said, Trump is so much worse that Biden even if insinuations of the story were true, that it should not even matter - this is less about hatred and more about the 2 choices.

P.S. What was Joe presumably selling in 2017 to this company? Access to Trump? He was a private citizen at the time. (and no, there is no proof Joe got anything out of this or was even involved)

1. I'm not calling for the FBI to announce its conclusions before the election. I agree Comey was out of line in Oct 2016 with his announcement, but that was only because he made a commitment to Congress in a public statement in July 2016 when he announced (paraphrasing) "not enough to warrant further investigation of Sen. Clinton but I'll alert you if we find more" -- an announcement he never should have made is it is the AG's job to determine if charges should be filed in such a case. i.e. the original sin was not declaring Clinton was again under investigation in October, but rather that charges would not be filed back in July.

2. Sorry, don't buy that. Joe ought not get a free pass just because there's a belief that Trump has done far worse.

What Joe did in 2017 does not appear to be illegal, but if those emails are genuine and they mean what they appear to mean, what reason can you give me for Joe Biden lying to us in the last debate when he said "I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life?"

 

[Slavister]

1. I'm not calling for the FBI to announce its conclusions before the election. I agree Comey was out of line in Oct 2016 with his announcement, but that was only because he made a commitment to Congress in a public statement in July 2016 when he announced (paraphrasing) "not enough to warrant further investigation of Sen. Clinton but I'll alert you if we find more" -- an announcement he never should have made is it is the AG's job to determine if charges should be filed in such a case. i.e. the original sin was not declaring Clinton was again under investigation in October, but rather that charges would not be filed back in July.

2. Sorry, don't buy that. Joe ought not get a free pass just because there's a belief that Trump has done far worse.

What Joe did in 2017 does not appear to be illegal, but if those emails are genuine and they mean what they appear to mean, what reason can you give me for Joe Biden lying to us in the last debate when he said "I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life?"

1. I think we agree for the most part. Even despite that statement in July, Comey should not have come out so close to election and should have done so after if he felt it was warranted - procedures around election should have overridden his implication.

2. I am not suggesting the story should not be investigated. I think it should be and Joe should not get a free pass. But also, if story turns out to be a setup, those responsible for setup should go to prison and pay heavy penalties. However, considering our choice is Trump vs Biden, I think it matters a lot how Joe's potential unproven impropriety compares to basically weekly Trump corruption stories that he is not even hiding. This makes the whole story moot as far as its impact. Of course what Trump camp is trying to do is to create the same confusion in the final days before the election as if he is on the same "sin" plane as Joe. If you've been following Trump Presidency however, you should know this is just another BS comparison.

3. Was Joe lying? Maybe no (he may not have taken any directly, or maybe those deals fell through and he never made anything on them, or maybe he was never part of the deal despite the unproven allegation). Maybe yes, but again, so what? After 20,000+ Trump lies, does it matter for the voters? Should it?

 

[NatMorton]

Re pt 2., that's a tough standard and one that might land some DNC folks in jail given how much of the "Steele Dossier" turned out to be wrong and, quite possibly, designed disinformation. As for Trump & team springing an "October surprise," that tactic is almost as old as elections and used by both parties. The Access Hollywood tape release was surely timed, as was the Bush DUI arrest documentation 20 years ago.

I never thought to look this up before, but here's an interesting chronicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise

 

[apdst]

Hmmm..... already falling apart...


The venture with CEFC, known as SinoHawk Holdings, was half held by Mr. Bobulinski, who served as chief executive, and four other partners—Hunter and James Biden; Rob Walker, a former Clinton administration official; and James Gilliar, a British national—according to the corporate documents reviewed by the Journal.

Text messages and emails related to the venture that were provided to the Journal by Mr. Bobulinski, mainly from the spring and summer of 2017, don’t show either Hunter Biden or James Biden discussing a role for Joe Biden in the venture.

Mr. Gilliar told the Journal: “I would like to clear up any speculation that former Vice President Biden was involved with the 2017 discussions about our potential business structure. I am unaware of any involvement at anytime of the former Vice President. The activity in question never delivered any project revenue.”

Hunter Biden’s Ex-Business Partner Alleges Father Knew About Venture

An ex-business partner of Hunter Biden said he consulted his father about a planned venture with a Chinese oil company. Joe Biden denied any involvement in the venture and corporate records reviewed by The Journal show no role for him.

www.wsj.com

Too bad the actual emails tell a differen't story.