Would a $billion aid to earthquake victims buy US more security ?

[robin]

The US spends $9 billion a month on the Iraq war.
Do you think $1billion, just three days worth of the cost of prosecuting the war in Iraq, would buy the US more security due to better relations with the Muslim world, if given in aid to the Asian earthquake vitims, rather than funding three days war in Iraq ?

 

[DeeJayH]

there is absolutely nothing we can do to change the attitudes of people who hate us. we are already the most generous nation, and nobody likes US anyway
We are Johnny on the Spot for anybody who needs it, even our enemies like Iran after the Earthquate in BAM
didnt feel any love after that, and i doubt anything we will do for this current disaster will change anything either
But we have to do regardless of how we see it. If we can, we should help in all cases
I for one, do not associate the average citizen of a country with the Government that rules them
Rarely are the citizens of a country the problem. it is the goverment

 

[Kelzie]

The US spends $9 billion a month on the Iraq war.
Do you think $1billion, just three days worth of the cost of prosecuting the war in Iraq, would buy the US more security due to better relations with the Muslim world, if given in aid to the Asian earthquake vitims, rather than funding three days war in Iraq ?

I really don't think that's why we should be giving aid; to buy our security.

 

[robin]

I really don't think that's why we should be giving aid; to buy our security.

I didn't say it should a sole reason for giving aid !
It would be a double edged sword if it did. Humanitarian aspect + possible better security from good PR. Couldn't do any harm. That much is blown in 3 days in Iraq, on what good in comparison ?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I think a show of compassion, as long as it was made more public, would go a long way to win more moderate Muslims. I don't think we should just give Pakistan 1 billion dollars. A billion dollars worth of supplies and goods: that sounds fine.

 

[robin]

I think a show of compassion, as long as it was made more public, would go a long way to win more moderate Muslims. I don't think we should just give Pakistan 1 billion dollars. A billion dollars worth of supplies and goods: that sounds fine.

Oh no Gandi
The billion must not of course be given in cash. We wouldn't want those mullahs in Pakistan & Kashmir to spend it on buying up some of the stinger missiles the US gave to the Taliban :lol:
Seriously though.. of course you are right, it would need to be supplied as food, medicine etc.

 

[Kelzie]

Oh no Gandi
The billion must not of course be given in cash. We wouldn't want those mullahs in Pakistan & Kashmir to spend it on buying up some of the stinger missiles the US gave to the Taliban :lol:

Unbelievably OT, but I just learned that the CIA tried to buy the missiles back at less than the black market price. Which I find very funny. :lol:

 

[robin]

Unbelievably OT, but I just learned that the CIA tried to buy the missiles back at less than the black market price. Which I find very funny. :lol:

Gosh Kelzie.. I wasn't as far off the mark in my buffoonery as I thought I was !
Many a word spoken in jest.

 

[imprtnrd]

Give a billion $ aid to pakistan? NO! The people in the hurricane get a token $2000.00 cash card and if they want to rebuild ,what do they have to do? Get a low interest rate loan.

 

[oOoAngeloOo]

1 Billion Dollars is a joke. Security? I don't think so, it isn't the general public that loathes us (USA). I kindove doubt that Al Qaeda, or any other terrorists group would say, "Wow, they gave them a billion dollars, we shouldn't mess with them anymore". :doh

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Screw 'em. We gave 'em aid before. We helped the cavemen in Afghanistan repel the Russian invaders. We give billions of dollars in aid to everyone, and still the stupid animals in "palestine" dance in the street when their pals murder thousands of our citizens in the WTC. Some animals in Pakistan were celebrating, also, and they're STILL hiding Osama bin Laden.

Cut'em a deal. One bin Laden head, and we'll give 'em a couple bucks for coffee.

Clearly the cowardly efforts in the State Department to buy friends has had it's totally predictable result. Time to change tactics.

Oh...and why hasn't Pakistan prepared for this ever-so-predictable earthquake? They had the money to build their "islamic bomb", didn't they? The Loma Prieta quake in 1989 didn't kill anywhere near 30,000 people, I don't think it hit 100, even. Seems like certain countries lack priorities. Clearly the US should have been spending more money on bombs, and less on earthquake preparedness.

 

[Kelzie]

Screw 'em. We gave 'em aid before. We helped the cavemen in Afghanistan repel the Russian invaders. We give billions of dollars in aid to everyone, and still the stupid animals in "palestine" dance in the street when their pals murder thousands of our citizens in the WTC. Some animals in Pakistan were celebrating, also, and they're STILL hiding Osama bin Laden.

Cut'em a deal. One bin Laden head, and we'll give 'em a couple bucks for coffee.

Clearly the cowardly efforts in the State Department to buy friends has had it's totally predictable result. Time to change tactics.

Oh...and why hasn't Pakistan prepared for this ever-so-predictable earthquake? They had the money to build their "islamic bomb", didn't they? The Loma Prieta quake in 1989 didn't kill anywhere near 30,000 people, I don't think it hit 100, even. Seems like certain countries lack priorities. Clearly the US should have been spending more money on bombs, and less on earthquake preparedness.

Oh sure. We had entirely altruistic motives for helping the Islamic fundamentalists kick the USSR out of Afghanistans. Only the purest intentions in our heart. It's not like we encouraged it or anything. :roll:

 

[jallman]

If we were not bogged down in the middle of a war with these people and their idealogies, then I would be all for sending them whatever aid was needed. However, we are at war with terrorist Islam and we have no need to extend a hand if its only going to lopped off. That billion dollars can go to something much more productive, like war planes, armored vehicles, and continuing the overhaul of our military so we can turn our attention to Syria, Iran, and the rest of the middle east when we are done in Iraq.

 

[robin]

If we were not bogged down in the middle of a war with these people and their idealogies, then I would be all for sending them whatever aid was needed. However, we are at war with terrorist Islam and we have no need to extend a hand if its only going to lopped off. That billion dollars can go to something much more productive, like war planes, armored vehicles, and continuing the overhaul of our military so we can turn our attention to Syria, Iran, and the rest of the middle east when we are done in Iraq.

The cost of an F15 would provide tents for thousands of freezing victims. You prefer instead to continue the cycle of hatred. You generalise when you refer to all Muslims as if they are 'pro terrorist'. Only a tiny minority are.
As in the states only a tiny minority are in the KKK or like Timothy Mac Vay. That minority of bad Muslims would be even tinnier if the USA spent a little more on aid & a little less on killing machines, I promise you.

 

[jallman]

The cost of an F15 would provde tents for thousands of freezing victims. You prefer instead to continue the cycle of hatred.

Providing tents for freezing victims is all well and good and I would be all for it, but we have the cost of national and global security to think about. And I am sorry, but I would trade the lives of a thousand terrorist supporters or sympathizers for the life of one american. That one f15 would be much more of a deterrent against a potential terrorist than 1000 tents and blankets. And perhaps if we stop handing out money to all these middle eastern countries, their own budgets could go toward disaster relief instead of weapons programs.

 

[robin]

Providing tents for freezing victims is all well and good and I would be all for it, but we have the cost of national and global security to think about. And I am sorry, but I would trade the lives of a thousand terrorist supporters or sympathizers for the life of one american. That one f15 would be much more of a deterrent against a potential terrorist than 1000 tents and blankets. And perhaps if we stop handing out money to all these middle eastern countries, their own budgets could go toward disaster relief instead of weapons programs.

Yeah man F15's are great to fight off suicide bombers on the London or Madrid tube or New York subway for that matter.
You really don't have a clue do you. Just like most Americans it seems.
America is strong like an elephant. The most powerful nation on earth, but you are like an elephant tying to kill all the world's bee population by stamping on them in one country.
The problem is, they breed faster than you can kill them, you don't even kill all the ones in that country let alone the rest of the world, they are everywhere, they don't mind dying when they sting you & you just make a lots more angry ones.
The only difference between you & the elephant, is your thick skin doesn't stop you getting stung :lol:
You are a pretty good example of the Americans I was referring to in my thread entitled 'The seriously deluded state of many Americans'.

 

[DeeJayH]

You really don't have a clue do you. Just like most Americans it seems.

tell me one thing, or as many as you can come up with, that you really believe would appease terrorists. and if you come up with anything, it will be a deluded fantasy on your part. they are not reasonable people
they are a threat to the world, and we are the only ones for the most part doing anything about it
I say let Europe fall to the terrorists as a result of their 'highly enlightened attitude.'
most of them are useless in the real world anyways
the carefree high and mighty life you lead was provided for by the blood of soldiers.
your ignorant philosophy, if it becomes widespread, will be the downfall of nations in this century.
Fight or Die.
We fight, cowards and appeasers die because they have no clue about the real world

give them tents and the jihad will stop :2rofll:

but i guess you are happy because they say ignorance is bliss

 

[jallman]

Yeah man F15's are great to fight off suicide bombers on the London or Madrid tube or New York subway for that matter.

I dont recall any discussion concerning suicide bombers in Madrid or London. I think we were referring to sympathizers of terrorist idealogies in earthquake affected areas. However, since you brought it up, yes, use those properly equipped F-15's and take out terrorist training camps. Take out suspected training camps at this point in the game. Take out anything that looks like it might double as a training camp on the weekends. We are at war, and this time its not against an army, its against an infectious doctrine of hate and destruction. We cant pull any punches.

You really don't have a clue do you. Just like most Americans it seems.

I am more than willing to discuss this with you, and at length. However, start belittling me or my country the way you did GySgt, and you will find I am not the most pleasant person to verbally spar with...are we clear?

America is strong like an elephant. The most powerful nation on earth, but you are like an elephant tying to kill all the world's bee population by stamping on them in one country.
The problem is, they breed faster than you can kill them, you don't even kill all the ones in that country let alone the rest of the world, they are everywhere, they don't mind dying when they sting you & you just make a lots more angry ones.

The only difference between you & the elephant, is your thick skin doesn't stop you getting stung :lol:

I am not sure where you are going with this analogy nor do I really care. I know how to spot a failed plan when I see one, and 9-11 is proof positive that appeasement and pandering to these barbaric idealogies, built on the concept that if you kill enough infidels you get more virgins, is not going to work. These people hate...they hate us and they hate eachother. America has long acted as the watchdog of the globe, policing every instance where the UN did not have the backbone to stand together and do something. I think it is high time we stop being the UN's guard dog and we make the UN our lapdog. We have shown the world compassion and love and what did we get? Two craters where the world trade center was. Thats what we got.

And now, you wish to send these people more money? More aid? I'll tell you what...you want to send aid, and I want to see the destruction of every terrorist training camp in the middle east. Here is a money saving solution: They give us all intelligence on Bin Laden's whereabouts along with disclosing the location of every terrorist training camp and we will rebuild every mud hut in the affected region. Hey, lets throw in a few goat herds to boot. I am a fair and generous man. Its a fair trade. But I think giving with no return should no longer be American policy when it comes to the Middle East.

You are a pretty good example of the Americans I was referring to in my thread entitled 'The seriously deluded state of many Americans'.

And this was the last verbal jab I will tolerate from you. dont expect me to brook anymore of your nonsense if you continue with this type of response.

 

[Kelzie]

Am I the only one who thinks we should be giving these people aid because they are human beings that are trapped in the middle of winter with no homes? Let me restate: HUMANS! As in the same species as us. As in men, women, children...brothers and sisters and aunts and fathers. Toddlers people! And you are saying what? Let them freeze? Let them die because a couple if them might know where OBL is? That's sick. You are holding the threat of death over hundreds of thousands of people...millions really, because their leaders are corrupt and would rather spend money on weapons than on social programs. Maybe we shouldn't give them aid only if it will help our security. Maybe we should give them aid even if it won't help our security. Hell, we should give them aid even if it will harm our security. These are children who have just lost their parents, parents who have just lost their little girl. They're not the enemy.

 

[jallman]

Am I the only one who thinks we should be giving these people aid because they are human beings that are trapped in the middle of winter with no homes? Let me restate: HUMANS! As in the same species as us. As in men, women, children...brothers and sisters and aunts and fathers. Toddlers people! And you are saying what? Let them freeze? Let them die because a couple if them might know where OBL is? That's sick. You are holding the threat of death over hundreds of thousands of people...millions really, because their leaders are corrupt and would rather spend money on weapons than on social programs. Maybe we shouldn't give them aid only if it will help our security. Maybe we should give them aid even if it won't help our security. Hell, we should give them aid even if it will harm our security. These are children who have just lost their parents, parents who have just lost their little girl. They're not the enemy.

Then you now have orphans ripe to be picked by terrorist organizations for suicide bombing missions. I agree that they are human beings and deserving of our compassion...if we werent at war with their leaders. Let the people go hungry and let them feel the elements on their backs. Let them spend a few weeks suffering in cold and shelterless nights and I am sure the people themselves will be ready to hand over any terrorists and their supporters. At that point, we give them aid.

 

[Hoot]

I agree with everything you've posted, Robin.

Spending money on war will never buy us peace.

We still have the hate schools, financed by Saudi Arabia, teaching the young to grow up hating the U.S. Until we break this cycle, we will never be rid of terrorism. We could spend 1/10th the money we are spending now on humanitarian efforts and get 10 times the results.

Exactly what have we gotten for all our billions spent on this war?

Everytime I log on the internet, there is fresh news about more dead in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have a Taliban commander running for office in Afghanistan. What if he's elected? Isn't that democracy? Isn't that what our money is buying? Democracy for the Middle East?

 

[DeeJayH]

Am I the only one who thinks we should be giving these people aid because they are human beings that are trapped in the middle of winter with no homes? Let me restate: HUMANS! As in the same species as us. As in men, women, children...brothers and sisters and aunts and fathers. Toddlers people! And you are saying what? Let them freeze? Let them die because a couple if them might know where OBL is? That's sick. You are holding the threat of death over hundreds of thousands of people...millions really, because their leaders are corrupt and would rather spend money on weapons than on social programs. Maybe we shouldn't give them aid only if it will help our security. Maybe we should give them aid even if it won't help our security. Hell, we should give them aid even if it will harm our security. These are children who have just lost their parents, parents who have just lost their little girl. They're not the enemy.

hardly anybody has said 'dont send anything'
this debate is supposed to be whether it would benefit us to do so
As always the US will step up and be one of, if not the, biggest donor of aid
but to think it will benefit us in any way is assinine
nothing will change the terrorists minds except death.
which we can let them do at a time and place of their choosing
or at a time and place of our choosing
the latter saves more lives, and defeats them

 

[teacher]

Am I the only one who thinks we should be giving these people aid because they are human beings that are trapped in the middle of winter with no homes?

I agree K. But carry it further. Their women are humans, but we shouldn't help them to be free? Why is it a good thing to help them in this but not with their every day oppression?

 

[Kelzie]

Then you now have orphans ripe to be picked by terrorist organizations for suicide bombing missions. I agree that they are human beings and deserving of our compassion...if we werent at war with their leaders. Let the people go hungry and let them feel the elements on their backs. Let them spend a few weeks suffering in cold and shelterless nights and I am sure the people themselves will be ready to hand over any terrorists and their supporters. At that point, we give them aid.

Let me get this straight. Orphans should be left in the freezing cold elements for weeks, with no food or water, or aid of any kind, in the hopes that the few people who know where the terrorists are will turn them over? So you are threatening innocent men, women, and children with their lives to get to your enemy. Now tell me. What seperates you from the terrorists?

 

[Kelzie]

hardly anybody has said 'dont send anything'
this debate is supposed to be whether it would benefit us to do so
As always the US will step up and be one of, if not the, biggest donor of aid
but to think it will benefit us in any way is assinine
nothing will change the terrorists minds except death.
which we can let them do at a time and place of their choosing
or at a time and place of our choosing
the latter saves more lives, and defeats them

Yes there are people. Read the post. I responded directly to one of them.


And who FREAKIN CARES if it benfits us?