World's Third largest Employer

[DeeJayH]

So who in the Fortune 500 is this mega-employer? Sadly they are not in Forbes 500
it is actually the UK's NHS They are the worlds third largest employer.

NHS is world's biggest employer after Indian rail and Chinese Army - Times Online
Only the Chinese Army and the Indian State Railways are believed to employ more people — with 2.3 million and 1.5 million staff respectively — but both workforces represent a far smaller proportion of the national populations.

is this really what we want to happen in America?
Does the US decide to fix the broken Government healthcare plans already in existence?
Does the US decide to analyze and fix the Massuchussetts Healthcare program?

No, instead they take the FUBARed experiment to the National level, with promises of 'getting it right' :roll:

Business 101 - if you do something wrong, analyze what worked, what didnt, and than implement changes to make it better
you sure as hell dont double down without doing jack **** about the issues of previous failures

Reform Healthcare in America? why not?
but how about you actually examine the problems of the current system, the current alternatives used by other countries, and than come up with a plan that Congress & the public can actually understand, instead of using the Politics of Fear to ram it down peoples throats

 

[DeeJayH]

there are plenty of existing government programs that could be fixed to show they actually can do it better. They even have enough to use multiple ways of fixing to see which is best. Than a real national change can occur, be it public, private or a commingling of the two

 

[Joe1991]

Business 101 - if you do something wrong, analyze what worked, what didnt, and than implement changes to make it better
you sure as hell dont double down without doing jack **** about the issues of previous failures

Reform Healthcare in America? why not?
but how about you actually examine the problems of the current system, the current alternatives used by other countries, and than come up with a plan that Congress & the public can actually understand, instead of using the Politics of Fear to ram it down peoples throats

Exactly! Finally we agree.
I say we look at the top rated countries, like France and Japan, and see why they get better HC at one-third the cost.

 

[formerroadie]

Exactly! Finally we agree.
I say we look at the top rated countries, like France and Japan, and see why they get better HC at one-third the cost.

EXACTLY! There are so many good systems in the world, yet right wingers here refuse to admit that public options and single payer systems can work. I remember growing up in a "can do" America. Seems the conservatives have opted for a can't do America where the corporations rule and the people get the shaft. Fun for everyone!

 

[Mach]

Business 101 - if you do something wrong, analyze what worked, what didnt, and than implement changes to make it better

Actually, that's what they did. Look at the statistics on:
1. Healthcare costs vs. country
2. life expectancy/health of the citizens
3. Consumer responses from those countries on health care.

 

[PeteEU]

So who in the Fortune 500 is this mega-employer? Sadly they are not in Forbes 500
it is actually the UK's NHS They are the worlds third largest employer.


is this really what we want to happen in America?
Does the US decide to fix the broken Government healthcare plans already in existence?
Does the US decide to analyze and fix the Massuchussetts Healthcare program?

No, instead they take the FUBARed experiment to the National level, with promises of 'getting it right' :roll:

Business 101 - if you do something wrong, analyze what worked, what didnt, and than implement changes to make it better
you sure as hell dont double down without doing jack **** about the issues of previous failures

Reform Healthcare in America? why not?
but how about you actually examine the problems of the current system, the current alternatives used by other countries, and than come up with a plan that Congress & the public can actually understand, instead of using the Politics of Fear to ram it down peoples throats

And? It is still cheaper and better than the US system... /shrug.

 

[DeeJayH]

And? It is still cheaper and better than the US system... /shrug.

than why do so many people fly to america from all around the world to get serious issues dealt with?

 

[formerroadie]

than why do so many people fly to america from all around the world to get serious issues dealt with?

Myth..... :doh

 

[DeeJayH]

People's Daily Online -- Former Italian PM Berlusconi undergoes successful heart surgery
there is my proof, where is yours

and why do so many people focus on the cost, instead of the over-regulation of the industry.
We have the best care in the world, and pricing can be brought down in many ways without the govt getting involved. as a matter of fact, getting the govt out would improve things

 

[Mach]

and why do so many people focus on the cost, instead of the over-regulation of the industry.

Wait, you wrote earlier it's business 101 to see what works, and what doesn't. So we look at all the other nations that do it for less cost, with similar or better results, and then you want to change the argument to regulation?

The industry is actually under-regulated (poorly regulated), which is why costs are so high. Same reason we had the financial market collapse and are in the current economic recession, lack of regulation. You want to talk de-regulation when your market has crumbled via de-regulation. It's insane.

Business is not for-value, nor is it for-quality, or for-ethical. It's for-profit. It's our job to set the market rules to foster profitable business, while being within some ethical/quality standards.

-Mach

 

[PeteEU]

than why do so many people fly to america from all around the world to get serious issues dealt with?

And why do over 1 million Californian's go to Mexico for treatment? Or how about the American's that come to Spain for treatment? Or the American's that head to India for transplants?

Sorry but your argument is a tired debunked right wing talk point.

 

[DeeJayH]

Wait, you wrote earlier it's business 101 to see what works, and what doesn't. So we look at all the other nations that do it for less cost, with similar or better results, and then you want to change the argument to regulation?

who ever said this is a single issue problem
there are so many reasons to oppose this.

The industry is actually under-regulated (poorly regulated), which is why costs are so high. Same reason we had the financial market collapse and are in the current economic recession, lack of regulation. You want to talk de-regulation when your market has crumbled via de-regulation. It's insane.

OVER regulated = different rules for insurance companies for EVERY STATE they write policies in, resulting in huge additional, unnecessary overhead
If the NHS in England, which has 1/5 the population of the US, how huge will this gargantuan get here. How ripe is that going to be for fraud

Business is not for-value, nor is it for-quality, or for-ethical. It's for-profit. It's our job to set the market rules to foster profitable business, while being within some ethical/quality standards.
-Mach

instead of going bigger without any proof it can be done better, they should fix the existing programs AND SHOW US it can be done more cost effectively WITHOUT a decrease in quality or rationing due to lack of resources

And why do over 1 million Californian's go to Mexico for treatment? Or how about the American's that come to Spain for treatment? Or the American's that head to India for transplants?

Sorry but your argument is a tired debunked right wing talk point.

so instead, you dodge and ignore, as per your normal MO
you are a one trick pony Petey

 

[winston53660]

Hmm interestin:

Mr Reid said that the “snapshot” census figures exploded the myth that everyone working in the NHS was a bureaucrat, with 84 per cent of NHS staff directly involved in patient care and managers only making up 3 per cent of the total workforce.

 

[Anima]

Hmm interestin:

Exactly. The fact that the NHS employs a very large amount of people doen't mean it's crawling with beureacrats. It simply means that a fair amount of doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals are required to keep our 65million strong populace in good health.

And we in the UK have a higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality rate and lower rates of morbidity (the US "middle class" experiences similiar morbidity and mortality from various disease to Britain's working poor and benefit dependent familes).We're doing something right with our NHS, and the statistics back me up when I say we're doing it a damn sight better than the US is the moment.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

than why do so many people fly to america from all around the world to get serious issues dealt with?

Thats like saying: "If Japan makes such great cars, why do the ultra-rich buy Aston Martins and Bentleys".

Sure, if you are a mulit-millionaire, you might want to go to the Mayo Clinic. However, the question is accessibility for most people.

 

[PeteEU]

so instead, you dodge and ignore, as per your normal MO
you are a one trick pony Petey

er okay what did I dodge and ignore? All I pointed out was the very real fact that people on the right seem to dodge and ignore, that American's travel abroad for treatment too, just as people travel to the US for treatment.

 

[formerroadie]

er okay what did I dodge and ignore? All I pointed out was the very real fact that people on the right seem to dodge and ignore, that American's travel abroad for treatment too, just as people travel to the US for treatment.

Exactly, my Grandmother-n-law went to Mexico for breast cancer treatment. Guess what? IT WORKED! HAHA. The Insurance Companies and many of those involved in health care really have people believing lies and they refuse to let go of them. Amazing.

 

[DeeJayH]

Exactly, my Grandmother-n-law went to Mexico for breast cancer treatment. Guess what? IT WORKED! HAHA. The Insurance Companies and many of those involved in health care really have people believing lies and they refuse to let go of them. Amazing.

anecdotal :2wave:

 

[Kushinator]

FWIW, the US has the highest life expectancy that does not account for accidential deaths, in the entire developed world. Something to ponder. But.... That does not mean there should not be an insurer to provide health care to those who are technically un-insurable in the private sector.

Maybe even a voucher program?

 

[PeteEU]

FWIW, the US has the highest life expectancy that does not account for accidential deaths, in the entire developed world. Something to ponder.

Why? A dead person is a dead person regardless if said person died in an accident or not.

 

[formerroadie]

anecdotal :2wave:

ummmmm, ok. well, when you start posting facts, you let us all know.

Actually, let me go even further. When you start posting realistic interpretation of facts, let us all know.