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Witness: Martin Attacked Zimmerman (2)

He was running in an attempt to keep eyes on Martin so he could accurately report his whereabouts to the police when they arrived....

which was a highly stupid, provocative, and intimidating thing to do.

if this is true, as you claim, then Martin had all the more reason to fear for his safety, and the right under Florida law to stand his ground.
 
Irrelevant. Running to keep eyes on someone so you can accurately report to police where they are/went does not equal chasing someone down.
So if someone you don't know is stalking you, then starts chasing you, at night, what would YOU do, bub?
How many people did Zimmerman chase down and shoot prior to this incident during his time as neighborhood watch captain?
He was not a member of the watch at the time. How many people SHOULD he have to run down and shoot, in order for you to think he's a "problem"? It's kind of a one time offense, wouldn't you say?
 
What we believe

33% Believe Zimmerman Guilty of Murder in Trayvon Martin Case - Rasmussen Reports™
"
One-third (33%) of adults believe crime watch volunteer George Zimmerman should be found guilty of murder in the shooting death of the Florida teenager, while 15% think Zimmerman acted in self-defense, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. But 52% of Americans are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
"
A bare majority
 
He was running in an attempt to keep eyes on Martin so he could accurately report his whereabouts to the police when they arrived.

How many incidents are there of Zimmerman chasing and gunning down black kids in his neighborhood, prior to this incident and during his time as a neighborhood watchman?

If there aren't any I would say it is safe to assume he is attempting to observe so he can report as he has in the past (which law enforcement has admitted led to arrest in his neighborhood).

Right, so. If someone has never murdered someone before, then the current murder is clearly just an accident.
 
What we believe

33% Believe Zimmerman Guilty of Murder in Trayvon Martin Case - Rasmussen Reports™
"
One-third (33%) of adults believe crime watch volunteer George Zimmerman should be found guilty of murder in the shooting death of the Florida teenager, while 15% think Zimmerman acted in self-defense, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. But 52% of Americans are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
"
A bare majority

I don't think he should be found guilty of murder. Personally, I think it's a case of manslaughter. I think that once the fight started, Zimmerman may well have had EVERY reason to fear for his life.

However, it seems CLEAR to me who ultimately instigated the confrontation that led to the fight, that resulted in Martin being shot.
 
What we believe

33% Believe Zimmerman Guilty of Murder in Trayvon Martin Case - Rasmussen Reports™
"
One-third (33%) of adults believe crime watch volunteer George Zimmerman should be found guilty of murder in the shooting death of the Florida teenager, while 15% think Zimmerman acted in self-defense, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. But 52% of Americans are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
"
A bare majority

what a stupid poll.

we don't even know all the facts of the case yet.
 
If you wan't to make assumptions about what he was doing/intended to do without evidence you need to at least provide some history that shows that is what he was like.

During is time as the neighborhood watch captain he has a record of calling into police which resulted in arrest. He does not have a record chasing down black kids and beating them up and/or shooting them.

Does this mean he is innocent? Nope. Doesn't make him guilty either.
 
If you wan't to make assumptions about what he was doing/intended to do without evidence you need to at least provide some history that shows that is what he was like.

During is time as the neighborhood watch captain he has a record of calling into police which resulted in arrest. He does not have a record chasing down black kids and beating them up and/or shooting them.

Does this mean he is innocent? Nope. Doesn't make him guilty either.

neighborhood watch volunteers aren't supposed to follow "suspects", let alone run after them...while armed.

he ****ed up big time.
 
neighborhood watch volunteers aren't supposed to follow "suspects", let alone run after them...while armed.

he ****ed up big time.

"Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the
role of a neighborhood watch member?
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida.
He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida
Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a
neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors.
They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training
provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations
stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of
those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the
situation.
Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by
carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal
errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the
Sanford Police Department"


Do you know what surveillance is?
 
...Do you know what surveillance is?

neighborhood watch volunteers are to observe & report.

THAT'S IT!!!!

not follow someone in your car, and then chase them down on foot.

Zimmerman ****ed up BIG TIME...and now an innocent man is dead because of it.
 
No how does that work exactly? (hypothetical) Martin: " I was afraid for my life so I waited until he lost sight of me and started walking back to his truck, then I went back and confronted him and broke his nose"

Is there any witness corroboration that this occurred?

I know a witness saw them on the ground fighting but how did they get to that point. You have Zimmerman's account but he could be either telling the truth or lying to protect himself.

Thinking about it more it does seem the one to yell for help was probably Zimmerman as I don't think he could have quickly thought to tell the police it was him yelling and not Martin. If one really looks at this objectively then by the video of Zimmerman and the account of Martin's body it does not appear to be a very bloody battle for either. I wonder if it was more of a struggle for the gun.

But am certain some of the witnesses to the confrontation who post here regularly will tell us.
 
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neighborhood watch volunteers are to observe & report.

THAT'S IT!!!!

not follow someone in your car, and then chase them down on foot.

Zimmerman ****ed up BIG TIME...and now an innocent man is dead because of it.



According to which laws? Link please. We wouldn't want to think you just make it up, would we?
 
According to which laws? Link please. We wouldn't want to think you just make it up, would we?

kinda early to start this with me again, wouldn't you say Rev?

ask me a legitimate question without the bull****, and I'll consider answering it.
 
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neighborhood watch volunteers are to observe & report.

THAT'S IT!!!!

not follow someone in your car, and then chase them down on foot.

Zimmerman ****ed up BIG TIME...and now an innocent man is dead because of it.

So... Is Trayvon a "kid" or a "man"...

Lets get it straight thunder.
 
kinda early to start this with me again, wouldn't you say Rev?

ask me a legitimate question without the bull****, and I'll consider answering it.



So you made it up, and it was a simple naive position and has no legal standing.


Thank you for your concession.
 
Is there any witness corroboration that this occurred?

I know a witness saw them on the ground fighting but how did they get to that point. You have Zimmerman's account but he could be either telling the truth or lying to protect himself.

Thinking about it more it does seem the one to yell for help was probably Zimmerman as I don't think he could have quickly thought to tell the police it was him yelling and not Martin. If one really looks at this objectively then by the video of Zimmerman and the account of Martin's body it does not appear to be a very bloody battle for either. I wonder if it was more of a struggle for the gun.

But am certain some of the witnesses to the confrontation who post here regularly will tell us.

And that is just the thing.

"He could either be lying or telling the truth" does not fly in court without EVIDENCE that he is lying.

That is the whole premise of why I can't sit here and judge him as having done something wrong.

The video from the police station..... not clear enough to make a determination on what his wounds looked like on scene to the responding officers and medical folks.



Sadly though, I wouldn't be surprised if more and more of our witnesses and such came out and claimed the police coerced their statement. The NAACP has been involved for long enough, and now with the Federal Government showing so much interest, suddenly people are changing their statements...... imagine that.
 
It is clear from the 9/11 call that Zimmerman lost sight of him hence the "they always get away " comment it is also clear that he stops running after the dispatcher says we don't need you to follow him, because you can hear is breathing slow down and his speech more clearly.

So....
Either Zimmerman is walking back to his truck and Martin goes back and confronts him, or Zimmerman magically teleports" to Martin. If even after running Zimmerman doesn't catch up to Martin, hes certainly not going to after he starts walking again.

This occurred in a "tunnel" of buildings, some way from the street and Zims truck.

So Zim HAD to have followed him for a ways considering he says he was "walking back". (There was also something about checking addresses(?). This area would be the "back" of these buildings. Probably no addresses.)

There's a lot of "predatory" behavior here posited for Martin that just doesn't add up. "Circling around" and "laying in wait" kind of stuff.

The ONLY evidence of the moments leading up to the shooting we have, BESIDES the shooters, says Martin was afraid.

I can't get being afraid morphing into turning predatory to "resolve". Martin has a history of minor "kid" stuff. NOT aggressive violence.

Friends of Martin said he'd never just attack somebody. A teacher said he was "Mr. Cheerful" or something.

I can buy him over-reacting, but not suddenly goin all "gangsta" on a guy who he was reported as being afraid of.
 
He was running in an attempt to keep eyes on Martin so he could accurately report his whereabouts to the police when they arrived.

How many incidents are there of Zimmerman chasing and gunning down black kids in his neighborhood, prior to this incident and during his time as a neighborhood watchman?

If there aren't any I would say it is safe to assume he is attempting to observe so he can report as he has in the past (which law enforcement has admitted led to arrest in his neighborhood).

My best guess is Martin STOPPED, to catch his breath or get his bearings or calm his girlfriend, and Zim "came upon him".

They exchanged words at close range, both startled after already being agitated.

Zim reached for his pocket and Martin charged.

Then the gun came into play and the rest of the "fight" was over control of the gun.

Martin lost.

Zims actions CAUSED this, IMO. He may not have broken any LAWS, but he's certainly RESPONSIBLE. Again, imo.
 
This occurred in a "tunnel" of buildings, some way from the street and Zims truck.

So Zim HAD to have followed him for a ways considering he says he was "walking back". (There was also something about checking addresses(?). This area would be the "back" of these buildings. Probably no addresses.)

There's a lot of "predatory" behavior here posited for Martin that just doesn't add up. "Circling around" and "laying in wait" kind of stuff.

The ONLY evidence of the moments leading up to the shooting we have, BESIDES the shooters, says Martin was afraid.

I can't get being afraid morphing into turning predatory to "resolve". Martin has a history of minor "kid" stuff. NOT aggressive violence.

Friends of Martin said he'd never just attack somebody. A teacher said he was "Mr. Cheerful" or something.

I can buy him over-reacting, but not suddenly goin all "gangsta" on a guy who he was reported as being afraid of.

And none of these "suggestions" will hold up in court.

A teacher saying he was Mr. Cheerful and a friend saying he swung on a bus driver....

Regardless none of that matters unless Zimmerman's statement can be disproven.
 
My best guess is Martin STOPPED, to catch his breath or get his bearings or calm his girlfriend, and Zim "came upon him".
What evidence do you have of it?

They exchanged words at close range, both startled after already being agitated.
Any evidence either were "agitated"

Zim reached for his pocket and Martin charged.
Possible. Since that is what Zimmerman's statement says.

Then the gun came into play and the rest of the "fight" was over control of the gun.

Martin lost.

Zims actions CAUSED this, IMO. He may not have broken any LAWS, but he's certainly RESPONSIBLE. Again, imo.

Its funny, when Zimmerman says things that people supporting Martin can use to help them, it is used. The rest is not believed. Convenient at best.
 
The points I was trying to make with the jail cell fight are these:
...
So, what's the problem?
The problem is what I already stated: "Dolphinocean your city jail story has no pertinence to the incident at hand."
That should be very clear.
Trying to say it shows this...; Or it shows that...; in regards to this incident, is ridiculous.


And then we have the following:

5. Now notice how the guy staggerred in a confused state after the event is over and then quiockly lied about he was sleeping as if he was the innocent victim in all this. It's so typical that I don;t know why the DA and the police chief and some people here would simply accept Zimmerman's account without question.
If you listen carefully enough it sounds like it is the guy who had been tasered speaking. And he continues, with the same voice, to speak about how it went down, and one can see it isn't the other guy, the one you call "burly", talking.


No, trying to give the correct location to help up a bro so his friend could come to bail him out without getting lost somewhere in the county is in no way can be construed as a fighting word even in the ganster society. If anything, that burly guy was disturbing the peace for speaking so loud at midnight without regards to other brothers trying to get some sleep before they had to appear before the judge.
1. That wasn't his bro.
2. He wasn't minding his own business. Makes him wrong from the get.
3. While not minding his own business, he corrected the guy. Makes him even more wrong.

Maybe you missed my reply to Caine, it might help you understand a bit more.
What he did shouldn't upset anyone... on the outside.
But you know what they say - When in Rome... But in this Rome, there are two sets of rules. The ones that your jailers say you have to abide by, and the unwritten rules, which if you value your life, you follow.
You do not butt into anyone else's business, even if you are best intentioned.


Please do not misunderstand me. There are two very different sets of rules that we are speaking about.
Even the issue of the guy on the phone disturbing others I agree with you. But that was not the issue and nobody there made it an issue.

If this had not taken place in a custodial setting I would agree that his action was the only thing wrong, but it wasn't.
The other guy was not minding his own business and then made it worse by correcting the guy. That puts him in the wrong from the get.
 
Retired judge still has good buddies in high places and that Zimmerman's mother being a court clerk for 20 years and maybe still working as one certainly have some influence. It's not too far fetch to believe the buddies in high places even without outfront assertion of influence would still give a sublime effect on subordinates such as DA, police chief and police who know Zimmerman's name and background.
...
Well. I guess it's just my imagination running wild. Nobody is perfect after all.
Yes, your imagination is running wild. It is running wild because you do not want to view the evidence objectively, but instead wish to favor a preconceived biased position.
 
Yes, your imagination is running wild. It is running wild because you do not want to view the evidence objectively, but instead wish to favor a preconceived biased position.

After reading so many of your posts on this topic it is like you are posting to yourself with that criticism.
 
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