• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Will Zimmerman's Past Come Back to Haunt Him?

66gardeners

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
1,651
Reaction score
418
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
SANFORD, Fla. -- As a neighborhood watch volunteer, George Zimmerman called police close to 50 times over an eight-year-period to report such things as slow vehicles, loitering strangers in the neighborhood and open garages.

Prosecutors want to introduce recordings of some of those calls during Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial for the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, saying they are indicative of his overzealousness in pursuing people he considered to be suspicious - and of his state of mind on the night the unarmed teen was killed.

Defense attorneys object to the introduction of the calls, saying they should not be admissible under the rules of evidence.

George Zimmerman Trial Prosecution Wants To Admit Past 911 Calls
 

66gardeners

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
1,651
Reaction score
418
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
well, we will find out today if George OCD comes into play here.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,829
Reaction score
4,930
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Not sure that the number of calls was important. Wendy Dorival indicated it's exactly what he was told to do by the NW program. Additionally, some of those calls weren't even his. Other residents would have been calling him (as NW captain) to call the police about things they had seen.
 
Last edited:

66gardeners

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
1,651
Reaction score
418
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Not sure that the number of calls was important. Wendy Dorival indicated it's exactly what he was told to do by the NW program. Additionally, some of those calls weren't even his. Other residents would have been calling him (as NW captain) to call the police about things they had seen.

Then why is brining them up a problem for the defense?
 

mike2810

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
25,944
Reaction score
9,905
Location
arizona
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Guess you didn't listen to the HOA president.

Didn't he basically say the people would call GZ, and he would call the police. He was to be the focal point.

So what the heck is the point of the OP, except to bait.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,829
Reaction score
4,930
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Then why is brining them up a problem for the defense?

Probably because they only wanted to bring in 5. The 5 about suspicious black kids. They didn't want ot bring in the 6th call about suspicious non-black kids.
 

AlfredENeuman

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
413
Reaction score
180
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I really am fascinated by the confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance you see in cases like this. And to be fair, it affects all sides of a debate, but I don't recall ever being completely unable to see the point the other side was trying to make.

In the phone calls, he says almost the exact same thing. It starts with a description of "we've been having break ins in the neighborhood", he moves on to Frank Taaffe's house as the location of the event, tells them to check by the clubhouse, and says the suspicious person is a black male. The obvious point is not so much that the "suspect" is black, but that Zimmerman is a serial 311 caller, or what LEOs call a crank. And that he called 311 at the drop of a hat and expressed dismay that nothing was done. And it almost sounds like a script, since it's eerily close to the same thing he said about Trayvon Martin before Martin ran and he said "oh, ****, he's running" and went running after him behind the row houses.

Now, before the usual suspects repeat the same tired arguments, please hear my point. It's not amazing to me that you dispute this. I get that. Everyone gets that. And it would actually shock me if any of you ever came in here saying "ya know, I may be changing my mind here". It's IS amazing to me that people pretend to not understand the point being made in the first place.
 

mike2810

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
25,944
Reaction score
9,905
Location
arizona
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I really am fascinated by the confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance you see in cases like this. And to be fair, it affects all sides of a debate, but I don't recall ever being completely unable to see the point the other side was trying to make.

In the phone calls, he says almost the exact same thing. It starts with a description of "we've been having break ins in the neighborhood", he moves on to Frank Taaffe's house as the location of the event, tells them to check by the clubhouse, and says the suspicious person is a black male. The obvious point is not so much that the "suspect" is black, but that Zimmerman is a serial 311 caller, or what LEOs call a crank. And that he called 311 at the drop of a hat and expressed dismay that nothing was done. And it almost sounds like a script, since it's eerily close to the same thing he said about Trayvon Martin before Martin ran and he said "oh, ****, he's running" and went running after him behind the row houses.

Now, before the usual suspects repeat the same tired arguments, please hear my point. It's not amazing to me that you dispute this. I get that. Everyone gets that. And it would actually shock me if any of you ever came in here saying "ya know, I may be changing my mind here". It's IS amazing to me that people pretend to not understand the point being made in the first place.

your assumption of GZ being "Zimmerman is a serial 311 caller". is a bias opinion on the facts that he called.

Did or did not the HOA president say GZ was the focal point. People would call him, then he would call the Police?
Has the police every made a statement that GZ called them too much? If so provide the link to the data.

I looked at what you posted. I don't come to the same conclusion as you looking at the evidence.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,829
Reaction score
4,930
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I really am fascinated by the confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance you see in cases like this. And to be fair, it affects all sides of a debate, but I don't recall ever being completely unable to see the point the other side was trying to make.

In the phone calls, he says almost the exact same thing. It starts with a description of "we've been having break ins in the neighborhood", he moves on to Frank Taaffe's house as the location of the event, tells them to check by the clubhouse, and says the suspicious person is a black male. The obvious point is not so much that the "suspect" is black, but that Zimmerman is a serial 311 caller, or what LEOs call a crank. And that he called 311 at the drop of a hat and expressed dismay that nothing was done. And it almost sounds like a script, since it's eerily close to the

Not only are you wrong on your description of all 5 of the calls, but Wendy Dorival said that George called just as he was advised too and not too much. She even said she would recommend that NW call if they saw a kid walking in the rain aimlessly. So, according to her, even the call on Trayvon was appropriate.

I should clarify what I mean by your description of the calls being wrong. He does mention the previous burglaries in all 5 - I personally wouldn't expect anything different as it provides a reason for his call and an opening... However, they do not all mention Taafe or are even anywhere near Taafe's house nor do they all mention the clubhouse.

One call was about someone next to George's house that his wife recognized as a possible suspect in burglaries.
One was about someone near the back entrance (not anywhere near Taafe's house)
one was about an open garage near George's house (again no where near Taafe's house.
One was about people near the clubhouse.
One was about a guy George sees on trash pickup days going through the trash near George's house (again no where near Taafe).

I agree completely, though. That cognitive dissonance sure is fascinating. Right?
 
Last edited:

AlfredENeuman

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
413
Reaction score
180
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
your assumption of GZ being "Zimmerman is a serial 311 caller". is a bias opinion on the facts that he called.

Did or did not the HOA president say GZ was the focal point. People would call him, then he would call the Police?
Has the police every made a statement that GZ called them too much? If so provide the link to the data.

I looked at what you posted. I don't come to the same conclusion as you looking at the evidence.

Yes, I find it fascinating too. Not only are you wrong on your description of all 5 of the calls, but Wendy Dorival said that George called just as he was advised too and not too much. She even said she would recommend that NW call if they saw a kid walking in the rain aimlessly. So, according to her, even the call on Trayvon was appropriate.

And like clockwork, both of you miss the point.

Right. I get that you support Zimmerman and see everything in a light favorable to him. But this was specifically about people upthread saying they don't even UNDERSTAND the point the state was making. I find that bizarre, since when I hear O'Mara make his points, I am perfectly capable and willing to see what he's going for. The inability to even attempt to grok the other side is a sign of mental closure.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,829
Reaction score
4,930
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
And like clockwork, both of you miss the point.

Right. I get that you support Zimmerman and see everything in a light favorable to him. But this was specifically about people upthread saying they don't even UNDERSTAND the point the state was making. I find that bizarre, since when I hear O'Mara make his points, I am perfectly capable and willing to see what he's going for. The inability to even attempt to grok the other side is a sign of mental closure.

Unless your point was that people that support Trayvon just make **** up to further their opinions, then yes I missed it. Your entire description of the calls was created from fantasy. You probably missed the below, as I was apparently editing my response as you were replying:

I should clarify what I mean by your description of the calls being wrong. He does mention the previous burglaries in all 5 - I personally wouldn't expect anything different as it provides a reason for his call and an opening... However, they do not all mention Taafe or are even anywhere near Taafe's house nor do they all mention the clubhouse.

One call was about someone next to George's house that his wife recognized as a possible suspect in burglaries.
One was about someone near the back entrance (not anywhere near Taafe's house)
one was about an open garage near George's house (again no where near Taafe's house.
One was about people near the clubhouse.
One was about a guy George sees on trash pickup days going through the trash near George's house (again no where near Taafe).

I agree completely, though. That cognitive dissonance sure is fascinating. Right?
 

mike2810

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
25,944
Reaction score
9,905
Location
arizona
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
And like clockwork, both of you miss the point.

Right. I get that you support Zimmerman and see everything in a light favorable to him. But this was specifically about people upthread saying they don't even UNDERSTAND the point the state was making. I find that bizarre, since when I hear O'Mara make his points, I am perfectly capable and willing to see what he's going for. The inability to even attempt to grok the other side is a sign of mental closure.

not at all.
Look, you say I am on the GZ side. You sure and the heck are not neutral, though your trying to spin that.
I fully understand that in a trial, both side try to introduce or limit informaton that can be used. That is why a judge makes rulings on what can be entered and what cannot.

Of course your not biased are you. What was it you called GZ?

It is noted you failed to answer the questions addressed to you. why is that?
 

year2late

IIJAFM
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
22,923
Reaction score
20,315
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Will Zimmerman's past come back to haunt him?

Of course.

02/26/12 will haunt him for the rest of his life.

1. He killed a kid who turned out to be just walking home. If he is not some soul-less monster, this will weigh on him every day - even if he was legally justified to shoot him.

2. Assuming he will be found not guilty, he still has had his entire life put out their for all to see. I wonder what kind of job prospects he will have and chances of normalcy?

3. If perchance he is found guilty...major haunting

4. He might have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life. I do not believe him to be racist - but the lack of any immediate arrest and formal court attempt at deciding SYG or self defense gave the impression to some that they just another dead black kid. This thought is only bolstered by those who are attempting to convict Trayvon of crimes he has not been charged with. It may give the appearance of racism. He will probably be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life for people who heave latched onto racist undertones that some perceive there to be


So yeah, his past (2/26/13) will likely haunt him forever.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,829
Reaction score
4,930
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Will Zimmerman's past come back to haunt him?

Of course.

02/26/12 will haunt him for the rest of his life.

1. He killed a kid who turned out to be just walking home. If he is not some soul-less monster, this will weigh on him every day - even if he was legally justified to shoot him.

2. Assuming he will be found not guilty, he still has had his entire life put out their for all to see. I wonder what kind of job prospects he will have and chances of normalcy?

3. If perchance he is found guilty...major haunting

4. He might have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life. I do not believe him to be racist - but the lack of any immediate arrest and formal court attempt at deciding SYG or self defense gave the impression to some that they just another dead black kid. This thought is only bolstered by those who are attempting to convict Trayvon of crimes he has not been charged with. It may give the appearance of racism. He will probably be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life for people who heave latched onto racist undertones that some perceive there to be


So yeah, his past (2/26/13) will likely haunt him forever.

Regarding the past haunting him, you are correct. Whether he is found guilty or not guilty, this will follow him though life.
 

AlfredENeuman

Active member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
413
Reaction score
180
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It is noted you failed to answer the questions addressed to you. why is that?

Because I'm trying to make a specific point and don't wish to derail it. There's plenty of other threads to make whatever other points you want with me. I'm discussing something else at the moment.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
68,513
Reaction score
38,807
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Then why is brining them up a problem for the defense?

It should not be unless they were all young black males. A potential problem, for the defense, is that not all calls that GZ made were because he, personally was suspicious/concerned, as some will imply, but because, as a HOA neighborhood watch representative, he likley relayed the concerns of others to police. The defense may not wish to have to refute the reasoning for each prior police call that GZ made - remember that the state has virtually unlimitted resources while the defense does not.
 

sharon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
11,600
Reaction score
1,344
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
your assumption of GZ being "Zimmerman is a serial 311 caller". is a bias opinion on the facts that he called.

Did or did not the HOA president say GZ was the focal point. People would call him, then he would call the Police?
Has the police every made a statement that GZ called them too much? If so provide the link to the data.

I looked at what you posted. I don't come to the same conclusion as you looking at the evidence.

No.. residents were to call 311 or 911 themselves... not thru George.

If they had questions or wanted more training they were to call George...
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
SANFORD, Fla. -- As a neighborhood watch volunteer, George Zimmerman called police close to 50 times over an eight-year-period to report such things as slow vehicles, loitering strangers in the neighborhood and open garages.

Prosecutors want to introduce recordings of some of those calls during Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial for the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, saying they are indicative of his overzealousness in pursuing people he considered to be suspicious - and of his state of mind on the night the unarmed teen was killed.

Defense attorneys object to the introduction of the calls, saying they should not be admissible under the rules of evidence.

George Zimmerman Trial Prosecution Wants To Admit Past 911 Calls

Whether found guilty or not guilty, Zimmerman's life is in shambles. After this criminal trial will come a civil one. He'll be powerless and broke no matter which way it goes. He's destined to a life of trials and tribulations...all sense of normalcy gone forever.

When I bought a gun for home protection and took a class in its use that included "the laws of the land," the instructor stressed that if you use your gun to kill or injure another human being, be prepared to have your life turned upside down. And, even if it's deemed a righteous shoot, get ready to spend upwards of $25,000 to defend and protect your rights.

To GZ, $25,000 must be laughable. Carrying a concealed weapon may be a right in 49 of our 50 states (soon to be 50), but one must wonder, if one has something to lose, whether or not it's worth it. No matter what anyone says, the possibility that carrying a weapon will save your life is infinitesimally small and statistically insignificant.
 

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
15,898
Reaction score
20,881
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
SANFORD, Fla. -- As a neighborhood watch volunteer, George Zimmerman called police close to 50 times over an eight-year-period to report such things as slow vehicles, loitering strangers in the neighborhood and open garages.

Prosecutors want to introduce recordings of some of those calls during Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial for the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, saying they are indicative of his overzealousness in pursuing people he considered to be suspicious - and of his state of mind on the night the unarmed teen was killed.

Defense attorneys object to the introduction of the calls, saying they should not be admissible under the rules of evidence.

George Zimmerman Trial Prosecution Wants To Admit Past 911 Calls

The proscution is trying to establish "Modus Operandi," or in laymans terms a method of operating/performing that tends to support a history of "bad acts" similar to those leading up to the criminal activity.

The defense objection would be that review of such calls would only serve to create an unwarranted suspicion of prejudice in the minds of the jurors, unrelated to the actual facts of the case. Furthermore, since they are merely selective samples of a larger set of calls they would not properly reflect his right and proper duty performance as NW Captain.

I don't think they will have much effect, and if they appear to then the Defense could always submit all the other calls into evidence in rebuttal to show these five are no different simply because they involve Black suspects.

Disclaimer: I am speculating since I got bored with the actual case. It is just points I would use in a similar situation if I were a lawyer on either side of the case.
 
Last edited:

sharon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
11,600
Reaction score
1,344
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
The proscution is trying to establish "Modus Operandi," or in laymans terms a method of operating/performing that tends to support a history of "bad acts" similar to those leading up to the criminal activity.

The defense objection would be that review of such calls would only serve to create an unwarranted suspicion of prejudice in the minds of the jurors, unrelated to the actual facts of the case. Furthermore, since they are merely selective samples of a larger set of calls they would not properly reflect his right and proper duty performance as NW Captain.

I don't think they will have much effect, and if they appear to then the Defense could always submit all the other calls into evidence in rebuttal to show these five are no different simply because they involve Black suspects.

Disclaimer: I am speculating since I got bored with the actual case. It is just points I would use in a similar situation if I were a lawyer on either side of the case.

George had only been NW for about 100 days when he shot Trayvon Martin..

George had a long history of calling 911 or 311 dating to when he lived at Lake Mary.

He called about potholes, garbage, children, slow moving cars, dogs, resident parties at the clubhouse.. He called about his landlord trying to collect the rent.. etc.. But, his suspicious persons calls were about young black males.
 

Excon

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
39,109
Reaction score
8,868
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
George had only been NW for about 100 days when he shot Trayvon Martin..

George had a long history of calling 911 or 311 dating to when he lived at Lake Mary.

He called about potholes, garbage, children, slow moving cars, dogs, resident parties at the clubhouse.. He called about his landlord trying to collect the rent.. etc.. But, his suspicious persons calls were about young black males.
Good for him.
More citizens should be concerned about their community.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,829
Reaction score
4,930
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No.. residents were to call 311 or 911 themselves... not thru George.

If they had questions or wanted more training they were to call George...

Then Wendy Dorival lied under oath during testimony. Is that your suggestion?
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,829
Reaction score
4,930
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
He called about potholes, garbage, children, slow moving cars, dogs, resident parties at the clubhouse.. He called about his landlord trying to collect the rent.. etc.. But, his suspicious persons calls were about young black males.

Again with incorrect facts. The prosecution chose to play 5 of the 6 recorded NEN calls, as the 6th was regarding suspicious individuals that were not black. Why do you insist upon lying and making **** up?
 

Excon

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
39,109
Reaction score
8,868
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Whether found guilty or not guilty, Zimmerman's life is in shambles. After this criminal trial will come a civil one. He'll be powerless and broke no matter which way it goes. He's destined to a life of trials and tribulations...all sense of normalcy gone forever.
Unlikely.
First of all, he will deal with his actions, it will pass, and if he believes he was justified, it will pass sooner.

Secondly; If he wins this trial, it is highly unlikely he will suffer a civil trial. It would be foolish of them to go after him in court as he has no funds.
And if a SYG hearing isn't requested in this trial and he wins, he has a better chance at wining a SYG hearing after the fact.

And finally. A normal life is far from gone. There are places where he will be safe and even places where he will be celebrated.
He may even find a place where he finds both.
He may even be swept up by some group as a poster child.

His life is far from over.
 

sharon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
11,600
Reaction score
1,344
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Then Wendy Dorival lied under oath during testimony. Is that your suggestion?

Listen carefully to her testimony.. She said NW weren't vigilantes.. She said when in doubt, call the police.. She didn't say follow and confront.
 
Top Bottom