• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why Obama is losing his Liberal support

LiberalAvenger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
16,881
Reaction score
2,980
Location
virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,433
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I guess it's just like the many of us who stopped supporting McCain because of Palin. . . or whatever personal reasons were (not the same for everyone).

But please explain your "Since he became a war president" statement. Exactly what are you referring to?

I've heard similar comments from people and this is referring to the fact that we're still in Afghanistan . . . to which I say, "YES! We're still in Afghanistan! He spoke about continuing and strengthening our involvement in Afghanistan because that's where the Taliban is - he never once said he was wanting to withdraw 100% of our troops worldwide ASAP." . . . he, in fact, ALWAYS supported that we should be involved worldwide in many issues BUT that we should be more passive or mediator-like - rather than an aggressor or occupier. . . which means that, no matter what, eh feels we still are "the big dog" and should be "in charge of the bullpin"

Yet MANY people supported him purely thinking he was somehow anti-war. :shrug: I fail to see how someone could draw that conclusion when pro-war in Afghanistan and other parts of the world came out of his mouth . . . I consider this a classic example of how people are led along in their path of political support but don't actually investigate *what* their candidate really believes.

It's called partisan politics - it's passive, not active.

Per the follow-up comments - I see such comments coming from people who had expectations for the President that are impossible for any President to meet. It seems that people became prey to political pandering - empty promises and hollow chants of 'change!!' - I'm not just sniding Obama with that comment. EVERY politician promises to go to Washing and "clean up that mess!" - to change things and take care of the little people and so on - everyone says that - what's the reality? In Washington politics and taxes come *first* - we're only good for our votes and the occasional drama.

So a lot of people have really just been drawn into classic Washington Campaign rhetoric, led to believe something that couldn't happen, and then is bitter because reality is ALWAYS different. . .that's just how things are.

In fact - it was MEANT to be that way. . .yep - the founding fathers (I know everyone rolls their eyes when they're discussed sometimes) but they fully intended for OUR political system to become a popularity contest:

We are a Representative Democracy *not a direct democracy* thus, our R.D. system is defined as
"any system of government in which leaders are authorized to make decisions - and thereby to wield political power - by winning a competitive struggle for the popular vote. . .They believed that the will of the people was not synonymous with the 'common interest' or the 'public good' . . .
"They believed that the government should mediate, not mirror, popular views, and that elected officials should represent, not register, majority sentiments. They supposed that most citizens did not have the time, information, interest, and expertise to make reasonable choices among competing policy positions. They suspected that even highly educated people could be manipulated by demagogic leaders who played on their fears and prejudices."
So - they had these beliefs and tried to avoid what they thought would happen . . . and they're happening anyway, especially the bolded in my quote.
 
Last edited:

LaughAtTheWorld

Custom User Title
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
9,642
Reaction score
3,591
Location
Seoul/Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I believe that Obama tried to compromise. He betrayed many of the ultra-democrats by siding with some of the Republican values and the Republicans naturally hate him. He tries to be a moderate, but that would only destroy him in today's American ultra-partisan politics
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,433
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
A president MUST be decent.
A president MUST be bi-partisan.
A president MUST try to compromise on everything.
A president MUST be civil.

He has to be all these things that his most avid supporters (or dissenters) DON'T want him to be - because now he's the PRESIDENT. He no longer just votes in the Senate - he's not just representing HIS political VIEW. He now has to consider the entire world.
I imagine a stiff drink at the end of the working day (if it ever ends) isn't even enough to unwind from that - do that for 4 years. . . Put up with everyone's constant childish, self centered and unending bull**** 24/7 for 4 solid years - it's amazing presidents don't commit ****ing suicide.

Imagine if you were in a job-position where you *felt* a certain way - some serious hardcore beliefs - but *had* to put aside your personal feelings, wants and desires *constantly* for the good of people who didn't even LIKE you. . . even if they *did* like you - they don't now because you said ___ or went ___.

You can't make everyone happy. . .and, honestly, he has more important fish to fry than some politically-inept flaky supporters who *only* supported him based on things like: race, a few tidbits of ideology, campaign promises that he never even made.

:shrug:

I don't like him - but I feel bad for him.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
316
Reaction score
117
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
A president MUST be decent.
A president MUST be bi-partisan.
A president MUST try to compromise on everything.
A president MUST be civil.
I'd vote for the most brash individual in the world if they were free market free society radicals.

Imagine if you were in a job-position where you *felt* a certain way - some serious hardcore beliefs - but *had* to put aside your personal feelings, wants and desires *constantly* for the good of people who didn't even LIKE you.
If I weren't a strong willed jackass I'd quit. My serious belief would be what I think is good for others so I couldn't compromise just for relection and my party's image and for approval of my constituents.
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,165
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Most of Obama's original supporters from the left are withdrawing their support for Obama.

Here is an article about the tea party. Read the comments at the end of the article where Obama is being called a neo-liberal by his former supporters.

I can no longer support him, either, especially since he bacame a war president.

The Tea Party Is Dangerous: Dispelling 7 Myths That Help Us Avoid Reality About the New Right-Wing Politics | | AlterNet
he's not a war president.

that said, if anyone ever listened to his policy speeches, they would have to admit he was never as "far left" as the left wanted him to be, nor as far left as the right painted him. he's fairly pragmatic, and i think will become moreso during his tenure. he's made mistakes, and has had a big learning curve. but imo, he never made a mistake as grave as our last president, and i am thankful for that.
 

LiberalAvenger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
16,881
Reaction score
2,980
Location
virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
A president MUST be decent.
A president MUST be bi-partisan.
A president MUST try to compromise on everything.
A president MUST be civil.

He has to be all these things that his most avid supporters (or dissenters) DON'T want him to be - because now he's the PRESIDENT. He no longer just votes in the Senate - he's not just representing HIS political VIEW. He now has to consider the entire world.
I imagine a stiff drink at the end of the working day (if it ever ends) isn't even enough to unwind from that - do that for 4 years. . . Put up with everyone's constant childish, self centered and unending bull**** 24/7 for 4 solid years - it's amazing presidents don't commit ****ing suicide.

Imagine if you were in a job-position where you *felt* a certain way - some serious hardcore beliefs - but *had* to put aside your personal feelings, wants and desires *constantly* for the good of people who didn't even LIKE you. . . even if they *did* like you - they don't now because you said ___ or went ___.

You can't make everyone happy. . .and, honestly, he has more important fish to fry than some politically-inept flaky supporters who *only* supported him based on things like: race, a few tidbits of ideology, campaign promises that he never even made.

:shrug:

I don't like him - but I feel bad for him.
I don't feel bad for him. I feel bad for the men and women who are giving their lives in Afghanistan for a useless war.

BTW, there are only 66 taliban left in Afghanistan. They now live in Samolia, Yemen, and Pakistan, give or take a few countries, including our own.

This war shall destroy our country if it continues.
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,165
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
I don't feel bad for him. I feel bad for the men and women who are giving their lives in Afghanistan for a useless war.

BTW, there are only 66 taliban left in Afghanistan. They now live in Samolia, Yemen, and Pakistan, give or take a few countries, including our own.

This war shall destroy our country if it continues.

obama NEVER said withdrawal from afghanistan was imminent, never.
 

LiberalAvenger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
16,881
Reaction score
2,980
Location
virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
Last edited:

German guy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
5,187
Reaction score
4,255
Location
Berlin, Germany
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Obama indeed tries to be centrist. Of course that causes many further to the left who placed hopes in him to be disappointed, and it doesn't keep the looney right from hating him of the basis of absurd conspiracy theories or claims he is either a Muslim sleeper agent, or a radical leftist, or both.

I guess the question is whether this strategy towards the center will bring Obama more supporters in the center, than he loses on the left.

As for my personal opinion: I'm not American, so I don't really care for Obama's domestic policies. Health care? Up to Americans to decide if they like it or not. I'm disappointed Obama has not put an end so far to extralegal renditions. But his foreign policy has been decent so far, definitely an improvement over Bush. Obama is a President I can live with, even when I'm not thrilled about him anymore. But he is ok.
 

German guy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
5,187
Reaction score
4,255
Location
Berlin, Germany
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I don't feel bad for him. I feel bad for the men and women who are giving their lives in Afghanistan for a useless war.

This war shall destroy our country if it continues.
I'm glad Obama has at least made a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. I always had more troubles with the Iraq war, than with Afghanistan. Afghanistan was legitimate and a reasonable response to 9/11. Iraq, on the other hand, was unnecessary, started on lies and fearmongering, poorly executed, had nothing to do with terrorism or 9/11 and was simply unnecessary. Maybe even counterproductive, because it possibly drove many Muslims in the arms of radicals, thus making the Iraq war the best recruitment programs islamists could have ever hoped for.

The US should have focused on Afghanistan and get the job done in the first place, instead of thinning out its resources by going into Iraq. So I appreciate Obama seems to be doing just that.
 

Guy Incognito

DP Veteran
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
11,216
Reaction score
2,818
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I'm not coming from the left, so this might not be the sort of response you're looking for, Obama has been impressing me lately. I'll admit I was dismayed by the slow rate of economy recovery (I don't blame him for getting us into the crisis but I do blame him for not yet getting us out of it), at his bungling of healthcare reform, and his continued failure with the handling of the Gulf oil spill. But as a foreign policy president he couldn't be doing much better. I think it's important that people don't forget how bad things were under Bush, and how much he tarnished our image as a nation. Obama restored our status in the world and then some. Sure, there are some things he could be handling better, like relations with India, but on the whole he gets an A for foreign policy in my book.
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,389
Reaction score
18,084
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I'm not coming from the left, so this might not be the sort of response you're looking for, Obama has been impressing me lately. I'll admit I was dismayed by the slow rate of economy recovery (I don't blame him for getting us into the crisis but I do blame him for not yet getting us out of it), at his bungling of healthcare reform, and his continued failure with the handling of the Gulf oil spill. But as a foreign policy president he couldn't be doing much better. I think it's important that people don't forget how bad things were under Bush, and how much he tarnished our image as a nation. Obama restored our status in the world and then some. Sure, there are some things he could be handling better, like relations with India, but on the whole he gets an A for foreign policy in my book.
An A For Foriegn Policy? How the hell does he get that? Pissing on our Allies and bowing to our Enemies?
 

Cold Highway

Dispenser of Negativity
DP Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
9,596
Reaction score
2,739
Location
Newburgh, New York and World 8: Dark Land
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I'm not coming from the left, so this might not be the sort of response you're looking for, Obama has been impressing me lately. I'll admit I was dismayed by the slow rate of economy recovery (I don't blame him for getting us into the crisis but I do blame him for not yet getting us out of it), at his bungling of healthcare reform, and his continued failure with the handling of the Gulf oil spill. But as a foreign policy president he couldn't be doing much better. I think it's important that people don't forget how bad things were under Bush, and how much he tarnished our image as a nation. Obama restored our status in the world and then some. Sure, there are some things he could be handling better, like relations with India, but on the whole he gets an A for foreign policy in my book.
Im sorry but...no. His foriegn policy is no different from Bush. He is still bombing and killing, his only difference is that he hasnt ****ed around in Iran.....yet.

An A For Foriegn Policy? How the hell does he get that? Pissing on our Allies and bowing to our Enemies?
Why are you people complaining? He is still killing and bombing Arabs and Muslims. You people should be cheering or is that Obama isnt killing them fast enough?
 

ScottD

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
977
Reaction score
412
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
BarackObama.com | Remarks of Senator Obama: The War We Need to Win

From the article: "I introduced a plan in January that would have already started bringing our troops out of Iraq, with a goal of removing all combat brigades by March 31, 2008. If the President continues to veto this plan, then ending this war will be my first priority when I take office."
Those are his comments on Iraq, which he already has a withdrawl plan to. Afghanistan has always been a unique theater, and the one Obama has felt we should focus our attention and resources on.
 

jujuman13

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
4,075
Reaction score
579
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
A president MUST be decent.
A president MUST be bi-partisan.
A president MUST try to compromise on everything.
A president MUST be civil.

He has to be all these things that his most avid supporters (or dissenters) DON'T want him to be - because now he's the PRESIDENT. He no longer just votes in the Senate - he's not just representing HIS political VIEW. He now has to consider the entire world.
I imagine a stiff drink at the end of the working day (if it ever ends) isn't even enough to unwind from that - do that for 4 years. . . Put up with everyone's constant childish, self centered and unending bull**** 24/7 for 4 solid years - it's amazing presidents don't commit ****ing suicide.

Imagine if you were in a job-position where you *felt* a certain way - some serious hardcore beliefs - but *had* to put aside your personal feelings, wants and desires *constantly* for the good of people who didn't even LIKE you. . . even if they *did* like you - they don't now because you said ___ or went ___.

You can't make everyone happy. . .and, honestly, he has more important fish to fry than some politically-inept flaky supporters who *only* supported him based on things like: race, a few tidbits of ideology, campaign promises that he never even made.

:shrug:

I don't like him - but I feel bad for him.
I too do not like him, he reminds me of 'Tony Blair' who used to swing his arms when asked a question that demanded an answer he never wanted to give.
He never actually voted while in the Senate, unless you can consider his 'Present' as a vote?
To me they are both the epitome of 'Oily Ex Lawyer Politicians'.
Having said that, I can say that he has never started a war, he has never instigated a falling out with any nation.
He is so far as foreign policy is concerned weakly moderate, rather like a big gangly puppy he wants everyone to be friendly with him and everyone else.
I too notice the strain of being a President puts on a person, in this instance Obama appears to have the start of greying hair.
If this were the least of what affects him, he will be a fortunate man, but I daresay his term of office will cost him dear in health terms throughout his life.
Set against that it was his ambition to do this job.
 
Last edited:

Erod

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,356
Reaction score
8,095
Location
North Texas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
he's not a war president.

that said, if anyone ever listened to his policy speeches, they would have to admit he was never as "far left" as the left wanted him to be, nor as far left as the right painted him. he's fairly pragmatic, and i think will become moreso during his tenure. he's made mistakes, and has had a big learning curve. but imo, he never made a mistake as grave as our last president, and i am thankful for that.
He's done enough to triple our deficit to the point of 90 percent of our GDP, which we will never pay back, and yet you think trying to run down terrorists half way around the world was worse.

Nice.
 

obvious Child

Equal Opportunity Hater
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
19,883
Reaction score
5,120
Location
0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Why are you people complaining? He is still killing and bombing Arabs and Muslims. You people should be cheering or is that Obama isnt killing them fast enough?
You gotta admit Chevy, Obama just can't win with some people. He does what they want and they cry foul. It is amusing watching those who attacked people who just wouldn't give Bush any credit do the same thing to Obama. Do you think they have any idea just how hypocritical they are?
 

Magill

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
158
Reaction score
51
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
he's not a war president.

that said, if anyone ever listened to his policy speeches, they would have to admit he was never as "far left" as the left wanted him to be, nor as far left as the right painted him. he's fairly pragmatic, and i think will become moreso during his tenure. he's made mistakes, and has had a big learning curve. but imo, he never made a mistake as grave as our last president, and i am thankful for that.
I knew going in, he would be disappointing me a lot, because he really is a centrist. At least that is what he sold the American people, and that is how he governs.... Still better than a Republican.
 

Magill

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
158
Reaction score
51
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't feel bad for him. I feel bad for the men and women who are giving their lives in Afghanistan for a useless war.

BTW, there are only 66 taliban left in Afghanistan. They now live in Samolia, Yemen, and Pakistan, give or take a few countries, including our own.

This war shall destroy our country if it continues.
But he said he would focus on this war (Afghanistan). He has always maintained that, even before he was president. I just hope he and the rest of our government decide to pack it up.
 

LiberalAvenger

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
16,881
Reaction score
2,980
Location
virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
The new drug czar that Obama appointed is very disappointing to me. I saw him on a tv interview yesterday where he said he is going to concentrate on "driving while stoned". I don't have a problem with that, per se but it seems like he was more interested in busting pot heads than the other types, such as drunks, over the counter medications, and even legal medications.

He said that 8% of the people tested recently in a crack down were on pot. Since pot stays in your system for at least thirty days how could they actually prove that you had recently smoked it and were impaired by it.

The part that is really scary is people who take prescription drugs will no longer be allowed to drive. We are talking about a huge percentage of our population.

I mean really, who needs another draconian sh!t head for a drug czar on a power trip infringing on our rights to privacy and illegal searches?

Thank you President Obama. Start in Washington DC.:roll:
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
The new drug czar that Obama appointed is very disappointing to me. I saw him on a tv interview yesterday where he said he is going to concentrate on "driving while stoned". I don't have a problem with that, per se but it seems like he was more interested in busting pot heads than the other types, such as drunks, over the counter medications, and even legal medications.
I think that might be due to the medical marijuana legalization and decriminalization movements going on in many states these days. So marijuana might be more directly focused on.
He said that 8% of the people tested recently in a crack down were on pot. Since pot stays in your system for at least thirty days how could they actually prove that you had recently smoked it and were impaired by it.
I bet you the number in general is alot more then 8% in actuality.
The part that is really scary is people who take prescription drugs will no longer be allowed to drive. We are talking about a huge percentage of our population.
I think all drugs should be acted on accordingly. Some prescription drugs can inhibit ones ability to drive.
I mean really, who needs another draconian sh!t head for a drug czar on a power trip infringing on our rights to privacy and illegal searches?

Thank you President Obama. Start in Washington DC.:roll:
Agreed.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,433
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I don't feel bad for him. I feel bad for the men and women who are giving their lives in Afghanistan for a useless war.

BTW, there are only 66 taliban left in Afghanistan. They now live in Samolia, Yemen, and Pakistan, give or take a few countries, including our own.

This war shall destroy our country if it continues.
Everyone said the war in Iraq would destroy our country - and it ended and our country hasn't been destroyed and we actually endured some seriously ****ed up **** because of it - and we're slowly starting to recover (economy, production, employment).

The new drug czar that Obama appointed is very disappointing to me. I saw him on a tv interview yesterday where he said he is going to concentrate on "driving while stoned". I don't have a problem with that, per se but it seems like he was more interested in busting pot heads than the other types, such as drunks, over the counter medications, and even legal medications.

He said that 8% of the people tested recently in a crack down were on pot. Since pot stays in your system for at least thirty days how could they actually prove that you had recently smoked it and were impaired by it.

The part that is really scary is people who take prescription drugs will no longer be allowed to drive. We are talking about a huge percentage of our population.

I mean really, who needs another draconian sh!t head for a drug czar on a power trip infringing on our rights to privacy and illegal searches?

Thank you President Obama. Start in Washington DC.:roll:
I think positions such as this are purely for show - what power does a single person in government actually have over how our laws are actually enforced? I think it's just flakey and would make no difference if it wasn't there. Our laws are what they are, and it's up to state governments and local law enforcement to actually hammer it down.
 

Dezaad

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
5,058
Reaction score
2,424
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
obama NEVER said withdrawal from afghanistan was imminent, never.


BarackObama.com | Remarks of Senator Obama: The War We Need to Win

From the article: "I introduced a plan in January that would have already started bringing our troops out of Iraq, with a goal of removing all combat brigades by March 31, 2008. If the President continues to veto this plan, then ending this war will be my first priority when I take office."
So, were you under the misconception that Obama was stating that he wanted to end the ware in Afghanistan in the same way as he wanted to end the war in Iraq? I wasn't, and I don't know how anyone else could have possibly been.
 
Top Bottom